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bfdhud wrote:
You answered it partly in your own post. A royal court isn't comprised of just 1 unit.

The others lose character status when grouped in units comprised wholly of their own models. Royal court is comprised of two model types plus HQ.

Also you're looking at the royal court totally backwards. The RC isn't a unit the HQ can join. Its a HQ that can join other units.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lol at "abuse" Los.

You sound like a kid who can't get his way.

They are an HQ choice on the force organization chart, if you choose 'not to break them down' (like the wolf guard) they form a unit of their own and can be joined by Independent Characters.


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 Mannahnin wrote:
Don't be rude. It's really not necessary, and it's a violation of the Dakka site rules.

It's a tricky thing to deal with, and obviously he's having to adapt to the new edition. Sounds like most of the other armies in his group hadn't been made much better or worse, so he hasn't had to adapt much yet, and this is throwing him.

That being said, the idea of a nigh-unkillable, expensive "Deathstar" unit is not new, and is so well known that everyone knows the nickname. The tactics for dealing with such a unit have not changed in the last four editions.

A) Either hit it with another, powerful Deathstar.
B) Find a shooting solution which somehow negates its advantages (like AP2 blasts, in this case).
C) Avoid the sucker and win on the mission while killing his other stuff.

The OP wanted to confirm that this unit is indeed this tough under the current rules. And it is so.

Thanks for the clarification of what I was trying to verify. I also appreciate the "Don't be rude" I certainly did not particularly like being called a "kid who cant get his way." (If that was seriously the case I'd just bypass posting on Dakka and make a house rule that the Necron dude 'had' to follow or else force him to not play on the table in my garage, but that seems childish and I wanted to verify everything here. I am constantly rules checking and re-checking because I want to make sure I am as versed as I can be, I want to be beaten by the player not the rules, and finally I am basically the judge/gm/rules-jocky for my group, kind of my job to make sure we are doing stuff right).

Anyways, you have driven home the whole purpose of my thread, I wanted to verify that they did in fact still count as a whole unit of characters and take into consideration any/all suggestions for dealing with said unit.

Remember, LoS must be done to the nearest model, so you should be able to maneuver around and put the ap2 wounds where he can't put them on the 3+ invul.

Sure he gets an ever living roll still, but its something.

rigeld2 wrote:
Remember, LoS must be done to the nearest model, so you should be able to maneuver around and put the ap2 wounds where he can't put them on the 3+ invul.

Sure he gets an ever living roll still, but its something.

The way he had it was like this:

Lords and Crypteks circle the HQ, HQ is about 1 inch from eveyone, being in the center, the crypteks were also 1 inch away from lords at almost all times (forming the circle around the lord). With a circle like this the 'nearest' model is several models, so he was pretty much able to pop the wounds where he wanted them.

The rules aren't 100% explicit on this for Look Out Sir specifically, but in shooting if two models are equidistant, you normally randomize to select one. You don't choose.

Exactly. Even if it was equidistant (and yes, I'd make him measure) its random to see who's closes, not his choice.

 Mannahnin wrote:
The rules aren't 100% explicit on this for Look Out Sir specifically, but in shooting if two models are equidistant, you normally randomize to select one. You don't choose.

rigeld2 wrote:
Exactly. Even if it was equidistant (and yes, I'd make him measure) its random to see who's closes, not his choice.

Is there a page in the rule book to support the 'randomness'?

I don't want to spring this on the Necron player and say "Oh Hey, I saw this on DakkaDakka" most of them want some type of page reference to ensure I am not relaying false information.

Mmm that formation sounds like it'd love a large blast.

 HoverBoy wrote:
Mmm that formation sounds like it'd love a large blast.

Did that, a lot lol.


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 Mannahnin wrote:
The rules aren't 100% explicit on this for Look Out Sir specifically, but in shooting if two models are equidistant, you normally randomize to select one. You don't choose.

Re-read what you posted, might I ask where the random portion is for hitting two models and making it random? Does this work in assaults as well? I feel like we've been doing this wrong and just wanted to know the page number so that I could reference it.

 Mannahnin wrote:
not being able to get 2+ saves or FNP (unlike some of the other units)

Yeah just want to point out here, we generally have a 4+ FNP.........

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
The rules aren't 100% explicit on this for Look Out Sir specifically, but in shooting if two models are equidistant, you normally randomize to select one. You don't choose.

rigeld2 wrote:
Exactly. Even if it was equidistant (and yes, I'd make him measure) its random to see who's closes, not his choice.

Is there a page in the rule book to support the 'randomness'?

I don't want to spring this on the Necron player and say "Oh Hey, I saw this on DakkaDakka" most of them want some type of page reference to ensure I am not relaying false information.

Page 15

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
not being able to get 2+ saves or FNP (unlike some of the other units)

Yeah just want to point out here, we generally have a 4+ FNP.........

FNP got changed to 5+.


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Fragile wrote:

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Mannahnin wrote:
The rules aren't 100% explicit on this for Look Out Sir specifically, but in shooting if two models are equidistant, you normally randomize to select one. You don't choose.

rigeld2 wrote:
Exactly. Even if it was equidistant (and yes, I'd make him measure) its random to see who's closes, not his choice.

Is there a page in the rule book to support the 'randomness'?

I don't want to spring this on the Necron player and say "Oh Hey, I saw this on DakkaDakka" most of them want some type of page reference to ensure I am not relaying false information.

Page 15

Thanks, I will take a look.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mannahnin wrote:
The rules aren't 100% explicit on this for Look Out Sir specifically, but in shooting if two models are equidistant, you normally randomize to select one. You don't choose.

After having read the entry on page 15, I have to agree with you. LOS seems to still qualify as allocating wounds to a model, just in a different way. The way the entry on page 15 explains the random rolling seems to also fit the new LOS rules.

 Jstncloud wrote:
FNP got changed to 5+.

I am aware. Thats why I said we have a 4+ FNP instead of leaving it at just "We have FNP"

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

 Jstncloud wrote:
FNP got changed to 5+.

I am aware. Thats why I said we have a 4+ FNP instead of leaving it at just "We have FNP"

Which army are you referring to, I scrolled up and cannot seem to find any specific mention for who has the 4+. I know SM/IG/CSM FNP is 5+ now unless you are Corbulo.

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

 Jstncloud wrote:
FNP got changed to 5+.

I am aware. Thats why I said we have a 4+ FNP instead of leaving it at just "We have FNP"

Which army are you referring to, I scrolled up and cannot seem to find any specific mention for who has the 4+. I know SM/IG/CSM FNP is 5+ now unless you are Corbulo.

He means reanimation protocols, which in fact isn't FNP, but seeing as how courts are single wound and we're talking about shooting here it has basically the same effect (kinda).

 HoverBoy wrote:

 Jstncloud wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

 Jstncloud wrote:
FNP got changed to 5+.

I am aware. Thats why I said we have a 4+ FNP instead of leaving it at just "We have FNP"

Which army are you referring to, I scrolled up and cannot seem to find any specific mention for who has the 4+. I know SM/IG/CSM FNP is 5+ now unless you are Corbulo.

He means reanimation protocols, which in fact isn't FNP, but seeing as how courts are single wound and we're talking about shooting here it has basically the same effect (kinda).

Gotcha, threw me off there for a minute. Other difference as well, Reanimation Protocols works on instant death where FNP does not, and it's roll is better. Essentially similar functionality though (albeit better).

Well, RP is still a base 5+.

Lords without orbs should be melted on principal.

Fragile wrote:
Lords without orbs should be melted on principal.

Not really, while I agree that the res orb is VASTLY useful it's still not that cheap when factoring in the necessity of bringing a 35 point model AND a 30 point upgrade.

My past few games I've run with only the orbs granted by the HQ I brought (Zahndrekh and/or D.Lord) and noticed the performance of my squads was largely unchanged. I took notes of how many RP rolls I failed that would have passed with an orb and it was surprisingly small. Across 3 or 4 games I think it was ~10 models that I would have gotten back. Personally, I don't waste the points on res orbs for warriors. On immortals I'll usually stick an HQ in with them depending on who it is. Lychguard will always get a res orb, same with praetorians (if I take them, which is rare), and cryptek squads if I keep them as one. Other than that I see no point in having destroyers/tomb blades get one due to their small squad size they'll probably just get wiped out anyway if my opponent really wanted to (yes, this is not referencing RC Lords). Deathmarks won't get one, they're a throw away assassin squad anyway. And flayed ones...well, everyone knows the answer there.

I agree with you that orbs on regular units like Warriors and Immortals generally don't make or break a game but a 50% chance of resurrecting on a 2+/3++ 225pt Overlord can be game changing. And it's amazing when Destroyer Lords pop-up to trash vehicles just for the psychological impact against your opponents alone!

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I agree with you that orbs on regular units like Warriors and Immortals generally don't make or break a game but a 50% chance of resurrecting on a 2+/3++ 225pt Overlord can be game changing. And it's amazing when Destroyer Lords pop-up to trash vehicles just for the psychological impact against your opponents alone!

Obviously on OL's and D.lords it will be a nearly mandatory upgrade, but we were talking about court members.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I agree with you that orbs on regular units like Warriors and Immortals generally don't make or break a game but a 50% chance of resurrecting on a 2+/3++ 225pt Overlord can be game changing. And it's amazing when Destroyer Lords pop-up to trash vehicles just for the psychological impact against your opponents alone!

Obviously on OL's and D.lords it will be a nearly mandatory upgrade, but we were talking about court members.

I've had just as effective RC Lords do the same thing to opponents and won me a game because he would not die. In fact RC Lords can be even better because not only can they be 2+/3++ but they can also be scoring units. After all there isn't much of a difference between an RC Lord and an Overlord when they get back up with one wound.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I agree with you that orbs on regular units like Warriors and Immortals generally don't make or break a game but a 50% chance of resurrecting on a 2+/3++ 225pt Overlord can be game changing. And it's amazing when Destroyer Lords pop-up to trash vehicles just for the psychological impact against your opponents alone!

Obviously on OL's and D.lords it will be a nearly mandatory upgrade, but we were talking about court members.

My friend, if you are not fielding at least 1 rez orb in a full royal court that is staying together, you are doing something wrong. If it saves even 1 member of the squad it has paid for itself.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I agree with you that orbs on regular units like Warriors and Immortals generally don't make or break a game but a 50% chance of resurrecting on a 2+/3++ 225pt Overlord can be game changing. And it's amazing when Destroyer Lords pop-up to trash vehicles just for the psychological impact against your opponents alone!

Obviously on OL's and D.lords it will be a nearly mandatory upgrade, but we were talking about court members.

I've had just as effective RC Lords do the same thing to opponents and won me a game because he would not die. In fact RC Lords can be even better because not only can they be 2+/3++ but they can also be scoring units. After all there isn't much of a difference between an RC Lord and an Overlord when they get back up with one wound.

For the standard OL's, yes, but I personally rarely run standard OL's unless I really really need the extra 20 points, otherwise I run a unique OL and I typically want them to stay alive and well for the rules (such as zandrekh or imo). Heck, even trazyn. So there's a large difference in that respect.


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 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
I agree with you that orbs on regular units like Warriors and Immortals generally don't make or break a game but a 50% chance of resurrecting on a 2+/3++ 225pt Overlord can be game changing. And it's amazing when Destroyer Lords pop-up to trash vehicles just for the psychological impact against your opponents alone!

Obviously on OL's and D.lords it will be a nearly mandatory upgrade, but we were talking about court members.

My friend, if you are not fielding at least 1 rez orb in a full royal court that is staying together, you are doing something wrong. If it saves even 1 member of the squad it has paid for itself.

Did you not see my previous post about ALWAYS having a res orb if the court stays together? Especially crypteks. Well, usually I don't split out my crypteks, I split out the lords if I take them.

Believe me, I know how to play pretty well. At least, I think so, and my W/L ratio is pretty good so far.

You do realize Zahndrekh has an Orb right?

 NecronLord3 wrote:
You do realize Zahndrekh has an Orb right?

Yes, and Imo as well. Which is why they're the two most commonly used named OL's in my games. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

They're also the ones I usually stick with either the royal court or, if I payed for another orb to have in the court, I put them in another unit I want to survive, such as immortals or possibly lychguard (if I don't have an assault character with an orb to stick with them).

That's also why I mentioned them in my previous post, because they come with the orbs standard.

I think we are getting into a completely different non-rules related issue that would probably be best discussed in the Tactics section.

Happyjew wrote:
I think we are getting into a completely different non-rules related issue that would probably be best discussed in the Tactics section.

Agreed.

This post is kinda funny. It seams you all think GW is trying to create a balanced table top game. It is the 6th Edition now. If they wanted it balanced it would be. This edition pushes flyers as there is not enough anti air out.... Surprise, GW is building flyers for each race. Last year the tournaments of 5th edition had tons of tanks and big units... Now those tanks suck. BUT GW offers new infantry units to buy. And with each rule change comes a $33 rule book for each race, and a $100+ rule book for the "collector."

Honestly, GW wanted to make Necrons Elite.... For now. When their 6th edition rule book comes out on digital format, expect the nurfing, and then go back to buy a new army with new units, new models, and a new rule book.... But keep the old one, as in 7th ed they might be elite again.

 Adrian Fue Fue wrote:
This post is kinda funny. It seams you all think GW is trying to create a balanced table top game. It is the 6th Edition now. If they wanted it balanced it would be. This edition pushes flyers as there is not enough anti air out.... Surprise, GW is building flyers for each race. Last year the tournaments of 5th edition had tons of tanks and big units... Now those tanks suck. BUT GW offers new infantry units to buy. And with each rule change comes a $33 rule book for each race, and a $100+ rule book for the "collector."

Honestly, GW wanted to make Necrons Elite.... For now. When their 6th edition rule book comes out on digital format, expect the nurfing, and then go back to buy a new army with new units, new models, and a new rule book.... But keep the old one, as in 7th ed they might be elite again.

If we do not voice our distaste for unblanace there is no chance of them ever creating balance. It is better to complain and hope for a change then to voice no opinion and have no chance at a change.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
You do realize Zahndrekh has an Orb right?

Yes, and Imo as well. Which is why they're the two most commonly used named OL's in my games. Well, one of the reasons anyway.

They're also the ones I usually stick with either the royal court or, if I payed for another orb to have in the court, I put them in another unit I want to survive, such as immortals or possibly lychguard (if I don't have an assault character with an orb to stick with them).

That's also why I mentioned them in my previous post, because they come with the orbs standard.

Imotekh has no Orb.