CSM RULES OUT

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**Quintinus**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Vladsimpaler wrote:
Godless-Mimicry wrote:
And you deal with flyers how?

Haha I'm fine vs one or two with the Obliterators and the Asscannons, but obviously not playing vs Necron Flier Spam which is an extreme army anyway. What would you recommend?

The unit of 2 Oblits gets 1.3hits on average against flyers with the Assault Cannons (if they are in range, which flyers can stay out of with ease), and then take 0.43 HP from AV11 or 0.22 HP from AV12. And those are as you surmised your best chances, which as you can see isn't enough. I know it is a fluffy list, but you still want to be able to have a chance against flyers, and I'm not talking about a full Necron air force here, even a single Storm Raven could easily ruin your day.

Three options in the book can do AA pretty well; Heldrakes, Havocs, and Forgefiends, and I would rate them in that order from most effective decreasing.

Haha yeah makes sense. My group doesn't really use flyers so I hadn't really thought about it until you mentioned it so thank you. I'm really iffy on the Heldrakes and Forgefiends but I'm thinking that dropping 2 of the Obliterators for a unit of Havoks with skyfire missiles would definitely be useful for starters. Alternatively, I was thinking of the Chaos Helltalon for an air superiority fighter.

Seriously though, tear the list apart. Obviously I want to keep some "fluffy" stuff in there but if it's a sucky list I'm not going to enjoy playing it since I like a force that can put up a good fight.

**Mohoc**

Swara wrote:
Those with the Codex, am I reading it right that you can take a lord/sorcerer w/ terminator armor AND a mount?

Short answer.... No

The war gear section specifically says only if you are wearing power armor.

**Ozomoto**

Does the heldrake have the daemon, it will not die or demonic possession special rule(s)?

**Mohoc**

Ozomoto wrote:
Does the heldrake have the daemon, it will not die or demonic possession special rule(s)?

Daemon
Daemonforge (once a game re-roll to wound and pen)
It Will Not Die
Meteoric Descent (vector strike)

**FallenAfh**

Mohoc wrote:
Ozomoto wrote:
Does the heldrake have the daemon, it will not die or demonic possession special rule(s)?

Daemon
Daemonforge (once a game re-roll to wound and pen)
It Will Not Die
Meteoric Descent (vector strike)

Also daemonic possession.

**Mohoc**

FallenAfh wrote:
Mohoc wrote:
Ozomoto wrote:
Does the heldrake have the daemon, it will not die or demonic possession special rule(s)?

Daemon
Daemonforge (once a game re-roll to wound and pen)
It Will Not Die
Meteoric Descent (vector strike)

Also daemonic possession.

Yes, I missed that because it is listed under wargear not special rules.

**Jayden63**

I remember an early rumor that said Slannesh bikers were going to be sick. Any truth to that?

Is it just FNP and I5? Can they get sonic weapons on their bikes?

**Abadabadoobaddon**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Battle Brother Lucifer wrote:
cow upgrade

There is no cow upgrade.

Stay awhile and listen...

Sorry.

**Palindrome**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Actually technically it doesn't, as in order to take the Axe you need to buy the Mark of Khorne first, which means the model already has the Rage USR. Simply put, its presence on the weapon is 100% pointless.

I suspect that the rage USR is intended for DPs but as the deamon of...rules don't actually count as a mark they can't take the axe in the first place. I suspect that it will be FAQed.

**Praxiss**

Crimson wrote:
OK, bunch of new questions:

Can Daemon Prince or Chaos Lord get an artificer armour equivalent?

from what i have read here (i dont have the codex yet) there is Power Armour and Terminator Armour.

There is also "Fleshmetal" whcih gives a 2+ armour save. I know the Warpsmith has it, not sure if anyone else has it or can take it as an option though.

**TheAngrySquig**

Vladsimpaler wrote:
Godless-Mimicry wrote:
And you deal with flyers how?

Haha I'm fine vs one or two with the Obliterators and the Asscannons, but obviously not playing vs Necron Flier Spam which is an extreme army anyway. What would you recommend?

@ AngrySquig, I basically just added a bunch of stuff I thought would be cool to play with, where could I add some synergy?

Well your list is very mixed between shooting and assault, but your shooty units are thinned and spread out. I would drop the terminator squads and use the points to upgrade the troops to 10 man and a rhino. This will help them get to the mid-field more easily and open up with more shooting. If you use 6th eds terrain rules then I would place a few ruins near the middle. Scratch build them to have a good space for a rhino chassis vehicle if you want the extra couple shots.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also consider the FF over the oblits. 8 S8 AP 4 shots a turn

**Robbietobbie**

here's the list I played yesterday:

Spoiler:

But yeah I was missing some anti-air too

**Praxiss**

Question - when does it Wil Not Die rolls coem into affect?

Is it at the start of the chaos players turn or at the end of each phase (like RP for necrons)?

**Makumba**

you cant get 20 zombis in a single unit . buying extra dudes is an upgrade.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Praxiss wrote:
Question - when does it Wil Not Die rolls coem into affect?

At the end of each friendly turn.

Makumba wrote:
you cant get 20 zombis in a single unit . buying extra dudes is an upgrade.

This isn't the place for that ridiculous debate.

**Makumba**

It isnt ridiculous , buying extra dudes is under the options part . If you can take extra dudes then you can also take marks , flamers ,boons for champ etc. But then the "cant take options" on tyfus would make no sense at all.

**Godless-Mimicry**

Makumba wrote:
It isnt ridiculous , buying extra dudes is under the options part . If you can take extra dudes then you can also take marks , flamers ,boons for champ etc. But then the "cant take options" on tyfus would make no sense at all.

It is ridiculous because any player with any bit of common sense knows it is a mistake. By RAW it is strictly correct, but many things by strict RAW don't work right. Anyone going 100% RAW is just trying to be a douchebag in my opinion.

**kronk**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
Makumba wrote:
It isnt ridiculous , buying extra dudes is under the options part . If you can take extra dudes then you can also take marks , flamers ,boons for champ etc. But then the "cant take options" on tyfus would make no sense at all.

It is ridiculous because any player with any bit of common sense knows it is a mistake. By RAW it is strictly correct, but many things by strict RAW don't work right. Anyone going 100% RAW is just trying to be a douchebag in my opinion.

Take this to You Make Da Call, please.

**reds8n**

Please.

Thanks

**BladeWalker**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Palindrome wrote:the axe is a power axe that reduces your WS by 1 but strikes at I order and gives you the rage USR for example.

Actually technically it doesn't, as in order to take the Axe you need to buy the Mark of Khorne first, which means the model already has the Rage USR. Simply put, its presence on the weapon is 100% pointless.

It's a bad choice for a Lord but an excellent choice for a Prince. My Khorne Prince is very happy to be able to throw up to 13 attacks at something on the charge with his new axe and it's his only way to get Rage.

**Godless-Mimicry**

BladeWalker wrote:
Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Palindrome wrote:the axe is a power axe that reduces your WS by 1 but strikes at I order and gives you the rage USR for example.

Actually technically it doesn't, as in order to take the Axe you need to buy the Mark of Khorne first, which means the model already has the Rage USR. Simply put, its presence on the weapon is 100% pointless.

It's a bad choice for a Lord but an excellent choice for a Prince. My Khorne Prince is very happy to be able to throw up to 13 attacks at something on the charge with his new axe and it's his only way to get Rage.

Well he should be happy if your opponent is letting him get away with an illegal combo; you need Mark of Khorne to get the Axe, and Princes can't take marks.

**Crimson**

I like the general direction of the book, but I wished that they had spent a little more time to polish it. It has a lot of these little bugs like tha axe and the zombie things, and some units really lack options, vehicles in particular.

**Skriker**

Crimson wrote:
I like the general direction of the book, but I wished that they had spent a little more time to polish it. It has a lot of these little bugs like tha axe and the zombie things, and some units really lack options, vehicles in particular.

So it is a typical GW product, then.

Skriker

**Seb**

2 specific questions :

1. Are there terminator chosens? If yes, what are the stats? Still +1A?
2. Abaddon makes those chosens troops ?

**buddha**

Seb wrote:
2 specific questions :

1. Are there terminator chosens? If yes, what are the stats? Still +1A?
2. Abaddon makes those chosens troops ?

1. Nope

2. Makes normal chosen troops.

**Seb**

buddha wrote:
Seb wrote:
2 specific questions :

1. Are there terminator chosens? If yes, what are the stats? Still +1A?
2. Abaddon makes those chosens troops ?

1. Nope

2. Makes normal chosen troops.

Lame. :(

**Myth**

MrMoustaffa wrote:
Ok I guess that makes more sense. However, the bikers don't.

Why on earth are they 5pts cheaper per bike than regular ork warbikers? Is the dakkaguns and 4+ persistent cover save enough to warrant that higher price? Bear in mind I'm not familiar with chaos bikes, so maybe there's something I'm missing about them.

I suspect that is more a matter of bike costs getting cheaper in the time since the ork codex came out. (In the same way the previous chaos bikers were something stupid like 30-35 per bike, even with identical stats to 25 point marine bikers.) When Dark Angels comes out, we'll see if their bikes (and possibly even basic marines) also reflect the lower points cost, and that might help establish if this is just something special for chaos, or setting a precedent for what we'll see in 6th Edition codexes.

**BladeWalker**

Godless-Mimicry wrote:
BladeWalker wrote:
Godless-Mimicry wrote:

Palindrome wrote:the axe is a power axe that reduces your WS by 1 but strikes at I order and gives you the rage USR for example.

Actually technically it doesn't, as in order to take the Axe you need to buy the Mark of Khorne first, which means the model already has the Rage USR. Simply put, its presence on the weapon is 100% pointless.

It's a bad choice for a Lord but an excellent choice for a Prince. My Khorne Prince is very happy to be able to throw up to 13 attacks at something on the charge with his new axe and it's his only way to get Rage.

Well he should be happy if your opponent is letting him get away with an illegal combo; you need Mark of Khorne to get the Axe, and Princes can't take marks.

This codex is giving me a headache now... thanks for that Godless. Silly of me to think that my Daemon of Khorne had the Mark of Khorne...

**Godless-Mimicry**

Seb wrote:
buddha wrote:
Seb wrote:
2 specific questions :

1. Are there terminator chosens? If yes, what are the stats? Still +1A?
2. Abaddon makes those chosens troops ?

1. Nope

2. Makes normal chosen troops.

Lame. :(

The only difference between Chosen and Terminators aside from the armour is the Chosen have special weapons and the Terminators have combi-weapons, so making a whole new unit entry for such a tiny thing would be silly.

Myth wrote:
MrMoustaffa wrote:
Ok I guess that makes more sense. However, the bikers don't.

Why on earth are they 5pts cheaper per bike than regular ork warbikers? Is the dakkaguns and 4+ persistent cover save enough to warrant that higher price? Bear in mind I'm not familiar with chaos bikes, so maybe there's something I'm missing about them.

I suspect that is more a matter of bike costs getting cheaper in the time since the ork codex came out. (In the same way the previous chaos bikers were something stupid like 30-35 per bike, even with identical stats to 25 point marine bikers.) When Dark Angels comes out, we'll see if their bikes (and possibly even basic marines) also reflect the lower points cost, and that might help establish if this is just something special for chaos, or setting a precedent for what we'll see in 6th Edition codexes.

This is same reason that the Heldrake appears overcosted too; flyers in new codices will be paying for the amount of flyer special rules they get to make them so good.

**Nicorex**

Sorry if this has been awnsered, but I didnt see it. Can units of Raptors still take 2 special weapons per squad?