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First let me say that when I say competitive here I do not mean tournament play. I just mean Strong enough to not get tabled and to put up a good fight.

2000 Pts - Black Templars Roster

HQ: Marshal (8#, 1007 pts)
1 Marshal, 1007 pts (Infantry (Character); Crusader Seals; Artificer Armour; Terminator Honours; Melta Bombs; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate; Rites of Battle; Warlord)
1 Adamantine Mantle
1 Holy Orb of Antioch
1 Command Squad (Automatic Unit Type; Squad w/ Frag Grenades; Squad w/ Terminator Honours; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
2 Initiate with Meltagun (Assault Grenades; Terminator Honours; Meltagun; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
1 Apothecary (Narthecium; Artificer Armour; Frag Grenades (squad); Terminator Honours (squad); Melta Bombs; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
1 Fighting Company Champion (Artificer Armour; Frag Grenades (squad); Terminator Honours (squad); Melta Bombs; Power Axe; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
1 Fighting Company Standard Bearer (Artificer Armour; Frag Grenades (squad); Terminator Honours (squad); Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
1 Chapter Banner
1 Master of Sanctity (Crusader Seals; Rosarius; Artificer Armour; Terminator Honours; Assault Grenades; Melta Bombs; Crozius Arcanum; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
1 Holy Orb of Antioch
1 Sergeant (Artificer Armour; Frag Grenades (squad); Terminator Honours; Melta Bombs; Storm Shield x1; Thunder Hammer x1; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)

: Emperor's Champion (1#, 140 pts)
1 Emperor's Champion, 140 pts (Infantry (Character); Assault Grenades; Crusader Seals; Bolt Pistol; The Black Sword; Accept Any Challenge...; Independent Character; Slayer of Champions)

Elite: Sword Brethren Squad (5#, 205 pts)
1 Sword Brethren Squad, 205 pts (Infantry; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
1 Sword Brethren Veteran with Power Weapon (Terminator Honours; Power Axe; Accept Any Challenge...; Counter-attack)
1 Sword Brethren Veteran with Power Fist (Terminator Honours; Power Fist; Accept Any Challenge...; Counter-attack)
3 Veteran with Storm Shield and CCW (Terminator Honours; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Shield; Accept Any Challenge...; Counter-attack)

Elite: Sword Brethren Squad (5#, 205 pts)
1 Sword Brethren Squad, 205 pts (Infantry; Accept Any Challenge...; Infiltrate)
1 Sword Brethren Veteran with Power Weapon (Terminator Honours; Power Axe; Accept Any Challenge...; Counter-attack)
1 Sword Brethren Veteran with Power Fist (Terminator Honours; Power Fist; Accept Any Challenge...; Counter-attack)
3 Veteran with Storm Shield and CCW (Terminator Honours; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Shield; Accept Any Challenge...; Counter-attack)

Elite: Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad (5#, 225 pts)
1 Sword Brethren Terminator Assault Squad, 225 pts (Infantry; Crusader Seals; Accept Any Challenge...; Tank Hunters; Teleport)
5 Terminator with Thunder Hammer & Storm Shield (Terminator Armour; Crusader Seals; Storm Shield; Thunder Hammer; Accept Any Challenge...; Tank Hunters)

Troops: Crusader Squad (6#, 117 pts)
1 Crusader Squad, 117 pts (Infantry; Accept Any Challenge...)
4 Initiate with Bolt Pistol and CCW (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Accept Any Challenge...)
1 Initiate with Plasmagun (Plasma gun; Accept Any Challenge...)
1 Initiate with Lascannon (Lascannon; Accept Any Challenge...)

Troops: Crusader Squad (5#, 101 pts)
1 Crusader Squad, 101 pts (Infantry; Accept Any Challenge...)
3 Initiate with Bolt Pistol and CCW (Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Accept Any Challenge...)
1 Initiate with Plasmagun (Plasma gun; Accept Any Challenge...)
1 Initiate with Lascannon (Lascannon; Accept Any Challenge...)

Validation Report:
c-1. File Version: 1.05 For Bug Reports/www.ab40k.org; b-1. Roster Options: Named or Special Characters; a-1. Scenario: Normal Mission; b-2. Levels of Alliance: Battle Brothers
Roster satisfies all enforced validation rules

Composition Report:
HQ: 1 (1 - 2)
Elite: 3 (0 - 3)
Troops: 2 (2 - 6)
Fast: 0 (0 - 3)
Heavy: 0 (0 - 3)
Fort: 0 (0 - 1)

Total Roster Cost: 2000

Created with Army Builder® - Try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com

The game plan is to Infiltrate my HQ and the sword brethren at key points. The terminators will deep strike where needed. I feel that there is enough survivability in the units to take on almost anything in CC and that is the goal. They will beeline for the enemy line and will do as much damage as possible. With the SS they can soak up wolf spam list along with anything heavy the guard can throw at me. My main weakness here is fliers but I dont really fear them with 2 lascannons and 2 plasmaguns in the back who will deal with them along with holding objectives. What do you think? Any idea on how to make a more effective beat stick list for black templars?

I don't think you have enough scoring units, so objective games will be a nightmare for you unless you manage to wipe your opponent out completely,

Other than that the list looks suitably unpleasant but very light on men in a 2000pt list?

heres my 2k point list so far it has won 10/11 games

hq

marshal - artificer armour, iron halo, master craft power weapon and master craft plasma pistol

champion - accept any challenge

elites

10 sword bretheren - terminator honors, crusader seals, frags and kraks

2X dreadnought with TL lascannon

troops

10 initiates, bolters - 10 frags - 10 neyophyts pistol and cc weapon

10 initiates, bolters - 10 frags - 10 neyophyts pistol and cc weapon


heavy support

land raider crusader


the trick ive found with BTs is you need to be diverse with everything because they are so orientated around combat if you pour too many points into hitting hard you forget about your support and they are expensive enough to begin with. it took me a lot of games to get a streak like i have with this list.

try to balance everything while maintaining a high enough field presence

Sorry to say, but the sword brothern and command squad are not worth the points. You are skinking 1007 points in the a 8 man command squad?!?! With TH/SS?? And infiltrate?! I just do not see how to justifiy this in a game, one squad that takes up HALF of your total points? The only way I have seen a command squad pLayed, with a positive outcome is with terminators, tank hunters, an cycML, or AC, Or possibly 2 meltas in a drop pod.

Also, sword brothern have never been good imo. I am really curious to see how this game goes. I feel like there is a lot of points sunk in to wargear, and not enoough units on the table for a 2k game.

Has anyone ever tried a big SS list?

Personally I have not tired that. But with LOS! I dont see a need for that. You can run a techmarine/Marshal/MoS in the front of a blob squad to get the same effect. Having a SS on every guy is crazy expensive. Honestly I would like to hear how the list goes. I just personally feel like its over the top. In a 2000 point list, you have so many options tho... so there is always a chance that this list would work.

I think you would get tabled with this list.

2 troop units totalling 11 power armor models. You have almost no chance of holding any objective games with that.

The Sword Brethren squads are terrible, they are expensive and you are getting no real benefit from them at all. You can equip assault marines with better weapons for a cheaper cost that can move 12'' instead of 6''.

One 5 man terminator squad will be easy for anyone to focus fire on and elimiate quickly.

AND REALLYYYYY... 1007 points for a command squad of 10 people? You can create a full 10 man set of GK Paladins at 550 then crazy upgrades to like 750; they would RIP this unit apart in 1 round of combat.

Sorry friend but the list is not competitive at all.


If you are really that interested in going with a complete foot list you need to have a lot of bodies on the table that can either score, or soak up the wounds you need to allow your bigger threats to actually make it to their targets. Or something fast to get across the table to tie the enemy up.

I think the major advantage is the unexpected factor this army brings to the table. We will be in combat right away then it is time to test black templar metal. The hope is that my units will survive the first round of shooting and the overwatch before they can get into combat. Close combat will tie up the enemies major units while i can take out vehicles with the guys in the back, or atleast that is the plan. I will play test it this week sometime and let you all know how it works.

I am not sure how you would be in combat right away.... Last time i used infiltrate was in 5th ed, so I am not sure if it changed..... but you still have to deploy at minimum of 18" away? Correct?? Move 6, now your 12" you would still have to get double 6's to assault!

This list should just not be played. I would be amazed if it did any good. Too expensive for what you have out there. Not enough models. Sorry UNREAL, its just not pratical to use.

UNREALPwnage wrote:
I think the major advantage is the unexpected factor this army brings to the table. We will be in combat right away then it is time to test black templar metal. The hope is that my units will survive the first round of shooting and the overwatch before they can get into combat. Close combat will tie up the enemies major units while i can take out vehicles with the guys in the back, or atleast that is the plan. I will play test it this week sometime and let you all know how it works.

Sorry man, there is no real advantage of any unexpected factor...

The only unexpected factor is why you are spending 1007 points on 1 HQ and 8 models with crazy amount of upgrades...

Example:
200 - Master of Sanctity (PowerFist/SS, Adamantite Mantle, Artificer Armor, Terminator Honors, Litanies of Hate)
430 - x10 Terminators (x6 TH/SS, x4 LC, Furious Charge) - Or any combination of weapons.
430 - x10 Terminators (x6 TH/SS, x4 LC, Furious Charge) - Or any combination of weapons.

Total 1060 - 53 points difference isnt that much at this point
Twice as many bodies, with more attacks and better attacks with same survivablity if not more.

For you to assault after infiltrating your squads, you would have to go second (per new rules). Which means that the enemy will have a turn to move out of assault range (even with righteous zeal it won't be that hard since you'll already be 18" away) of all those squads and shoot you to pieces.

As mentioned above the 1000pt-uber-command-squad does not work (trust me, I've tried), I would only think of bringing it in a Apoc game. Half of your army spent on 7-8 dudes...

2 tiny scoring units

No fire support.

No anti-air. 2 lascannons and 2 plasmaguns to "deal with flyers", seriously???

To answer your question directly: this is not a competitive list, not even a "strong enough to not get tabled" list.

I play Black Templars and can bring a fluffly assault-oriented list that won't have any problems dealing with this.

Against anything semi-competitve I would be surprised if you have much left on the board by turn 3-4.

I understand your idea of getting "in your face" with the enemy; I just think you're approaching it the wrong way.

Here are some things you could look into:
-pod list
-large blobs of initiates/neophytes
-dual (even triple) land raider list (not super-competitive but would still probably have better outcome)
-more assault termies
-termie marshall or MoS with dual ACs command squad and TH/SS sergeant

Don't hesitate to rub it in our faces if you actually win something with this list but I won't hold my breath. Hope this helps.

Have fun!

Personally I would love to see that command squad in a Apoc game. One shot with my titan and the squad would be toast.

Rougejm11 Has a very good point. Look at the terminators that you could bring instead. MUCH higher chance of surviving, and MORE attacks.

I still want to hear how this list does to be honest...

Good point about the titan shot :b
I was just thinking that Apoc would be the only game I would contemplate dumping points in an uber-command-squad.

But yeah, a 10-man assault-termie squad lead by a termie chaplain would probably destroy that command squad for half the cost.

Very true... The Emperor protects, and SS will only protect you for so long. It may be a 3++, but you still can fail them!

Any weapon that negates cover would make this squad cry. It would be first kill point, Marshal, Most expensive unit. lol.

But its still fun to goof around to see what your squads can do.