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So I’ve been thinking about ways of using Stormtroopers and the following occurred to me that might be fun.

Stormies can take the Special Ops that gives them infiltrate and a Chimera as a dedicated transport, which would let you infiltrate 10 Stormies in a Chimera 18 inches away from enemy units (it’s gonna be tricky to keep a Chim out of LOS for the 12” range). Turn 1 lets you move 6” in the Chimera, disembark and end your move within 6” of the transport, which is enough to put you in range to double tap the hot shot lasguns and close enough for double plasma, flamers and even melta at a push. The multi laser on a Chim is another 3 st6 shots which could threaten the back and side armour of vehicles. You could take three of these units, and on top of this, you could also infiltrate a Chim with 10 vets and Harker for even more fun. This would mean on turn 1 you’d have 4 Chimeras, 30 Stormtrooprs and 10 Vets all in range to do some serious damage.

Obviously this is a major points sink – the Storm/ Chim coming in at 220 pnts even before special weapons and Harker’s vets at around 180. however, if you were going first it seems a pretty devastating alpha strike potential, and even if you were going second I’d think there’s a good change of enough Chim/ Stormies surviving to give a good account of themselves in return.

So what do people think? I think it’d be worth it for comedy value alone, but would it competitive in any way? How would you load up on specials? Are smaller squads worth it, so going for just 5 stormies with specials for less points? What could the rest of a 1750 point army look like to complement it?

It is a neat trick that you might get a little use out of, but it is an expensive option that makes me wonder if you would be better spent else where. Main reason being even if they do the job they are a suicide unit as any army could kill them. and you'll only have 3 max 4 at a huge point cost. Also as you better be exactly 18 from any tank you want to kill or your going to fall short on the melta range. And I don't think you will ever get them to kill 200+ points of infintry even if they aren't in tanks.

The other issue you have is if you don't get first turn you might just give a quick opponent a first turn charge against you allowing them to move up to your main lines even faster (bikes, landraider, assault troops,)

I'm not sure if I would do this on a normal basis, you could likely get away with it for a game or two before your group catches on.

It seems way too expensive. Without the ability to support the immediate point blank attack with the rest of your army you can't depend on target saturation to keep them alive, and disembarked stormtroopers aren't exactly the most durable unit (and if you don't disembark you waste half their firepower). And against an opposing mech list you won't have destroyed the transports yet, so those AP 3 weapons aren't going to be doing very much. I just don't think your alpha strike is going to be crippling enough to justify the risk.

Now, if you want to use stormtroopers in Chimeras you can always outflank them and hit a nice vulnerable target once you've blown up some transports and forced your enemy to advance towards the rest of your army. Sure, you have to wait a turn or two, but you have a much better chance of delivering an effective attack with them, or at least forcing your opponent to make difficult movement choices to avoid them.

The geometry of infiltrating them is off for short-range melta.

You have to infiltrate *more than* 18" away. So if you start 18.1 inches away, then move 6" and disembark another 6", you're still 6.1" away. It's mathematically impossible to get within 6" in turn 1 when infiltrating at 18"

But, you can give your STs the scout special mission. Then, you get the 12" scout move, then a 6" move in turn 1 plus the 6" disembark, which gives you a total displacement of 24". So anything within 30" of where you deployed would be vulnerable to the short-range melta shot.

I used 2-3 of the 5-man units (with 2 meltas) in 5th edition regularly, and I think I got of maybe one or two alpha strikes of this type in the whole time I played them. It's really only worth attempting if your opponent puts out a land raider full of termies that you have a decent chance of disembarking before they can move.

More often I used the small dual-melta ST units for deepstrike and let somebody else (like a special weapons squad) ride in their chimera, or infiltrated them in a covered position along a likely path of approach for heavy tanks.

But the huge advantage of ST units is that you can go ahead and take them in the army, and then decide during deployment based on your opponent and whether you're going first if it would be best to infiltrate, scout, outflank or deepstrike them.

Regardless of how you use em, though, it's a suicide unit. So it's best to keep them cheap--minimum size and no upgrades except the meltaguns.

I thought the current Scout rule only allowed you to redeploy within 6" of the starting position. Its not a normal move any more. Also to get the maximum disembarking movement you would be leaving your chimera showing its rear armour to the enemy.

Vehicles scout 12" I believe (they just redeploy that distance, don't make a move). I'd probably not use infiltrate for first turn meltas - as you say the distance is off and if I'm suicide meltaing I'd just go with deep striking them instead.

The advantage of the infiltrate is that you could hit the rear armour of a lot of things on the first turn with double tap plasma, and the multi lasers have a good chance of doing some damage against AV10 - so no good for land raiders and monoliths (which I don't actually see much of locally), but a lot of other things, including most transports, would have a bad day with that much St 6 and 7 coming in from behind.

And whilst it may ultimately be a suicide tactic, I'm not sure they're quite a flimsy as all that. 10 Stormies can be surprisingly relient and I think with careful positioning you could actually have them survive at least a couple of turns of laying down a fair bit of plasma and AP3 lasguns. I agree the point cost is pretty prohibative tho.

 Flavius Infernus wrote:
The geometry of infiltrating them is off for short-range melta.

You have to infiltrate *more than* 18" away. So if you start 18.1 inches away, then move 6" and disembark another 6", you're still 6.1" away. It's mathematically impossible to get within 6" in turn 1 when infiltrating at 18"

1: Infiltrate more than 18" away with your side armour facing the enemy.
2: Pivot and move
3: ????
4: Profit.

 Flinty wrote:
I thought the current Scout rule only allowed you to redeploy within 6" of the starting position. Its not a normal move any more. Also to get the maximum disembarking movement you would be leaving your chimera showing its rear armour to the enemy.

As mentioned, vehicles scout 12".

And you do have to leave your chimera with the rear armor facing the target to get that close, which was also true when you did this tactic in 5th edition (because disembark was only 2.9999 inches then). So you should expect to lose both the stormtroopers and the chimera in turn 1 if you do this. That's why you only use it to do something worthwhile, like strand a land raider in the deployment zone or sucker-punch a valuable skimmer or bike/jetbike deathstar before it has a chance to move (earn jink save) or cast defensive powers.

And it only works if you get turn 1 and your opponent doesn't seize. So it also only works if your opponent makes the mistake of setting up the valuable target(s) within 30" of your scouting unit, since you have already deployed before he does. So against an opponent who knows what stormtroopers can do, it's an area-denial tactic rather than a plausible alphastrike.

The front-attack has a few problems. Firstly, as mentioned, special weapons aren't going to be doing a lot. Infiltrators has the problem mentioned in the OP, and scouts has the problem of your opponent being able to react to it (especially if they've already seen it in action once). Furthermore, you're not going to be ignoring any cover saves.

For all this, you get some expensive units that are just going to be killed much faster than the rest of your army.

If you want to run chimera stormies, I'd outflank them instead. Their rides reduces the penalty of showing up on the wrong side, and would make a heavy flamer actually useful on the vehicle. Plus, it would give them more backfield security.

Don't know if it's better than deepstriking them in, though.

Well again, the advantage of stormtroopers is that you don't have to *always* do anything with them. You can always respond to the circumstances of what your opponent brought and what he does during deployment.

With 3 units, I usually would deepstrike two and outflank the third unit in their chimera. But obviously if your opponent has artillery or grots or something that's going to be sitting in a corner or on an objective you already know the location of at deployment, you might want to outflank more.

Or if my opponent was running a lot of anti-deepstrike defense (Warp Quake), I might outflank more or infiltrate some instead.

Or you could set them up for the scout alphastrike, and then if there's no good target, just scout move back to your gunline and use them like another maneuver unit.

Or infiltrate them to block your opponent's infiltration or scout moves.

The thing about stormtroopers is that they are so flexible. Even with only 3 lasguns, the AP3 makes them a credible threat to small enemy units (but you shouldn't expect much). And 3 attacks on the charge means that a unit of 5 has a good chance of wiping a bigger unit of grots or whatever weak little objective-holders your opponent was hiding at the back of the table. 5 krak grenades is enough to have a chance to wreck any vehicle with rear armor 10. They're a swiss army knife unit.

It's about the fact that you always have the options that makes STs worth the extra cost.

I never had the opportunity to try stormtroopers out (but will soon when the 20 or so I just ordered arrive and get their paint-job) but is seems like the most versatile unit in the codex. Adding a Chimera to them to get better use Scout/Infiltrate operations seems like a great idea provided you have alternative use for said Chimeras if you decide to deep-strike. My gut tells me the deep-strike operation is the one I'll use most, though....

That being said I can see uses for Scout/Infiltrate directly on the table if you get to go first. I guess it could be useful for example against an enemy with a low unit count to make them spread out or face infiltrators in their deployment zone. I would also consider using the scout move to move sideways 12", then moving another 12" in you first turn. That way you might just have redeployed 750 pts of firepower from one flank to the other, possibly stranding enemy units deployed opposite them as a counter. I wouldn't say it is useless.

Maybe a bit off topic, but exactly when do you decide which mode to use? Book says "Before deployment", so my take is right before any models are put on the table. Correct?

zoat wrote:
Adding a Chimera to them to get better use Scout/Infiltrate operations seems like a great idea provided you have alternative use for said Chimeras if you decide to deep-strike.

I use the ST chimeras to transport special weapons squads, who benefit greatly from transport but can't buy their own chimera. They have deploy outside the hatch and hop in your turn 1, but that's not usually a problem. I can count on one finger the number of times an opponent has bothered to try to alpha-strike a SWS standing behind a chimera at deployment.

 Ailaros wrote:
The front-attack has a few problems. Firstly, as mentioned, special weapons aren't going to be doing a lot. Infiltrators has the problem mentioned in the OP, and scouts has the problem of your opponent being able to react to it (especially if they've already seen it in action once). Furthermore, you're not going to be ignoring any cover saves.

For all this, you get some expensive units that are just going to be killed much faster than the rest of your army.

If you want to run chimera stormies, I'd outflank them instead. Their rides reduces the penalty of showing up on the wrong side, and would make a heavy flamer actually useful on the vehicle. Plus, it would give them more backfield security.

Don't know if it's better than deepstriking them in, though.

Remember that you can declare Focus Fire for the weakest cover save possible.

The problem with Storm Troopers in general is that they're a niche unit. The price of a full squad and lack of armory makes them difficult to use, despite they're specialist missions. If you really want Storm Troopers in Chimeras, I'd follow Ailaros' suggestion.

If you want them to infilltrate, I wouldn't take any special weapons. Their hot-shot lasguns gain pinning during your first round of shooting, so you'd want to shoot for soft targets with low LD; Lootas, Fire Warriors, Heavy Weapon Teams, Devastators, etc. Then its really a matter of luck and fortune whether or not the gambit works. As a player who once fielded Infiltrating Storm Troopers, the results are mixed.

Use them wisely.

I'm going to completely disagree with you, KplKeegan :p

Except that full sized units aren't worth it, where we agree. Units of 5 are best.

But 2 melta or 2 plasma is essential to the versatility. If you don't take special weapons, then they can't drop and can really only infiltrate and that restricts what they can do. And based on my experience of hotshot lasguns, even 10 shots isn't going to do anything effective enough to warrant throwing away a KP.