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 tetrisphreak wrote:
I disagree. When an enemy unit attacks another, they're directing blows at the unit as a whole (therefore majority WS/T applies). Obyron should only get his bonus strikes from cleaving counterblow when he is solo or in a challenge.

So, they either are or are not trying to hit obyron. Which is it? Yes, they are striking at the unit as a whole but he is included in there and is thus being attacked, or having blows directed at him.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Dave-c wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
On a similar tangent about HQ's. How would you guys run Vargard Obyron? Do you know of any combos that work well with him or do you guys think he is a lost cause that isn't very viable?

Well, he has great qualities about him. The no scatter deep strike with zandrekh is great, move zandrekh forward in a vehicle, unit, ccb, etc, then ds to his position with something nasty, or something scoring, or whatever you are trying to do.

You have to be very careful what you throw at him, he has no invul and if you put him between a rock and a hard place he will not live long enough to hit back. It is not wise to let zandrekh get into combat until you are done moving the unit around with the ghostmantle. Well, he just shouldnt be in any combat at all, honestly.

I usually do obyron plus 20 warriors or obyron plus 10 lychguard in big games. You can hide obyron behind those 4++ shields since he doesnt have one for himself.

Vargard is awesome in combat, what are you talking about? Sure, he'll get ripped up by AP 2 CC weapons but most of those strike at I1 anyway so he has a shot of surviving at least one round. The added attacks on misses against him is great too.

Yes, it would be best if he was accompanied by a squad of something that is equally good in CC, but he can do just as well in a CCB.

Agreed, obyron has become better in this edition, but you cant throw him anywhere. There are many things that will kill him easliy. Any monstrous creature with I3 or higher or more wounds then he can take off, smach attacks will insta kill with no save, anything that has a decent invul save and ap2 weapon, anyone with a force axe and invul save, anything that reduces his init to 0 and has an ap2 weapon, the list is long, he is good, and even better in 6th, but still fragile against some foes.

All i said was be careful with him, which is the truth.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I disagree. When an enemy unit attacks another, they're directing blows at the unit as a whole (therefore majority WS/T applies). Obyron should only get his bonus strikes from cleaving counterblow when he is solo or in a challenge.

So, they either are or are not trying to hit obyron. Which is it? Yes, they are striking at the unit as a whole but he is included in there and is thus being attacked, or having blows directed at him.

 Dave-c wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Dave-c wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
On a similar tangent about HQ's. How would you guys run Vargard Obyron? Do you know of any combos that work well with him or do you guys think he is a lost cause that isn't very viable?

Well, he has great qualities about him. The no scatter deep strike with zandrekh is great, move zandrekh forward in a vehicle, unit, ccb, etc, then ds to his position with something nasty, or something scoring, or whatever you are trying to do.

You have to be very careful what you throw at him, he has no invul and if you put him between a rock and a hard place he will not live long enough to hit back. It is not wise to let zandrekh get into combat until you are done moving the unit around with the ghostmantle. Well, he just shouldnt be in any combat at all, honestly.

I usually do obyron plus 20 warriors or obyron plus 10 lychguard in big games. You can hide obyron behind those 4++ shields since he doesnt have one for himself.

Vargard is awesome in combat, what are you talking about? Sure, he'll get ripped up by AP 2 CC weapons but most of those strike at I1 anyway so he has a shot of surviving at least one round. The added attacks on misses against him is great too.

Yes, it would be best if he was accompanied by a squad of something that is equally good in CC, but he can do just as well in a CCB.

Agreed, obyron has become better in this edition, but you cant throw him anywhere. There are many things that will kill him easliy. Any monstrous creature with I3 or higher or more wounds then he can take off, smach attacks will insta kill with no save, anything that has a decent invul save and ap2 weapon, anyone with a force axe and invul save, anything that reduces his init to 0 and has an ap2 weapon, the list is long, he is good, and even better in 6th, but still fragile against some foes.

All i said was be careful with him, which is the truth.

True, but that's no different than it really was before. He's become much better against standard power weapons or even "unusual" ones. Besides, most of that stuff you mentioned should be taken out in shooting anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I disagree. When an enemy unit attacks another, they're directing blows at the unit as a whole (therefore majority WS/T applies). Obyron should only get his bonus strikes from cleaving counterblow when he is solo or in a challenge.

So, they either are or are not trying to hit obyron. Which is it? Yes, they are striking at the unit as a whole but he is included in there and is thus being attacked, or having blows directed at him.

I'm guessing you're just circling back here. Well that's fine. Hopefully it'll be FAQ'd, I sent my email to them (for however much good it'll actually do). Should the situation ever come up, I'll discuss it with my group.

Bah! @kevin949 I had a rational and lucid counterpoint underneath the quote & my phone decided that part needed left out. Ill gather my thoughts and rebut when I get to a PC.

perhaps it deserves a YMDC thread?

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Bah! @kevin949 I had a rational and lucid counterpoint underneath the quote & my phone decided that part needed left out. Ill gather my thoughts and rebut when I get to a PC.

perhaps it deserves a YMDC thread?

Perhaps, but honestly I'm personally not that worried about it. I rarely use that HQ choice, myself. If you would like to make the thread, please feel free (obviously, I don't govern your actions. If I did, you'd agree with me always! Hah)

It certainly looks like an interesting point of contention. I fear a thorough read of the BRB may not yield satisfactory answers either way. Won't stop me checking it out after work though.

Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

Well, this is a no-no in friendly games. Is it worth it in competitive play? Horde units generally have a low armor save and so losing two-third (or more) of a unit while moving would be nice option.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

Well, this is a no-no in friendly games. Is it worth it in competitive play? Horde units generally have a low armor save and so losing two-third (or more) of a unit while moving would be nice option.

This, plus vehicles are still stopped in their tracks (literally ). I don't think it's a combo that can be shoe horned into any list, but if, for whatever reason, you were looking to have a Shard and Orikan anyway, it seems rather silly not to get WW.

Also, people can't null deploy you anymore, making that first turn shenanigans by Orikan more useful now. And, Orikan is pretty secsie for Flyer Wings.

An Aegis with Comms Relay is cheaper and doesn't take up a valuable HQ slot though. You miss out on the quad gun but hey, our tesla does just fine.

 Lukus83 wrote:
An Aegis with Comms Relay is cheaper and doesn't take up a valuable HQ slot though. You miss out on the quad gun but hey, our tesla does just fine.

True, but it also doesn't provide you with a semi-monstrous creature that makes the ground difficult terrain the first turn, the latter ability can also be particularly clutch if your going heavy air assault as it can limit the ability of your opponent to maneuver and destroy whatever you placed down the first turn. Plus 3+/3+>>2+, for the straight comparison in that department.

Fair point on the HQ slot. I think Orikan becomes really interesting in Double FOC games when you can put him into interesting combinations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Which reminds me, for anyone who hasn't tried it yet this is a fun little combo:

Obyron
Trazyn
6xWraiths w/Trans Beamers (yes, those Trans Beamers)

Nemie
LG (numbered to flavor)
RC of choice
Night Scythe

It's a little too pricey to be "competitive", however its great fun against most armies. Obyron/Trazyn and the Wraiths DS around starting turn one and melt things with the Trans Beamers. Optimum targets are Termies/Pallies/Oblits/MCs/Dreadnaughts/HQ/CCS/etc. Eldar seer councils will absolutely hate you, as well as their twisted cousins. Really anything that concentrates points into one or a few bases and has the Strength characteristic. Oh, and it scores too, fun.

As soon as Nemie and his body guard arrive you can start pinpoint DSing off of Nemie, so stick him in the center of the action for maximum beamage. Also, the LG provide a natural home for Trazyn should the SHTF for the Wraith squad.

Again, it's pricey, but against some armies like Nidzilla, or even GK with Psyflespam/DK's (and Chaos Fiends/Defilers), it's absolutely comical to see their expensive units get erased by a weapon most people consider useless. And of course the unit is no slouch in CC either, especially with Nemie buffage.

The problem is with all that moving going on, the trans beamers will all be requiring '6's to-hit. Not very consistent or effective at all. Plus it puts your shock assault unit (wraiths) into a shooting unit. They'll always do more damage in assault than by bamfing around the table snap firing a heavy strength test gun.

In short that is terrible tactical advice.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The problem is with all that moving going on, the trans beamers will all be requiring '6's to-hit. Not very consistent or effective at all. Plus it puts your shock assault unit (wraiths) into a shooting unit. They'll always do more damage in assault than by bamfing around the table snap firing a heavy strength test gun.

In short that is terrible tactical advice.

Trazyn is a phaeron, so you will be shooting with your full BS after moving, and can still assault after shooting. Not after DSing, but certainly after moving.

 Dave-c wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
The problem is with all that moving going on, the trans beamers will all be requiring '6's to-hit. Not very consistent or effective at all. Plus it puts your shock assault unit (wraiths) into a shooting unit. They'll always do more damage in assault than by bamfing around the table snap firing a heavy strength test gun.

In short that is terrible tactical advice.

Trazyn is a phaeron, so you will be shooting with your full BS after moving, and can still assault after shooting. Not after DSing, but certainly after moving.

Oh, yes he is. Overlooked that , so disregard the '6's to hit portion of the above. That certainly makes the unit better with the Beamer, and the advice not terrible, so for that i'll apologize. Still not something i'm eager to try out but it would be interesting to see a carnifex take 6 (strength?) tests.

By joining Trazyn, you also reduce your Wraith's movement by 6'', further hampering their chances to assault. Not to mention that there's no point in putting him in a melee squad when he sucks at melee...

My favourites are

Dual courts

Small warrior squads with dual LanceTeks (135pts as long as you have two overlords)
On back field. A PITA to remove with the double ever living rolls and 5 warrior wound catchers. The number of times I have scored an objective with a sole LanceTek! They are hardly worth the fire power to take down on own and is ingored or destroyed completely with alot of overkill and a chance to pop back up again.

Dual TerrorTeks with deathmarks. (255pts)
Precision placement required from a nightscythe. Hit with both templates and then the rapid fire snipers. This one has been known about for a while but 6th and flyers have helped alot with the precision placement to maximise the flamer templates and not relie on deep striking.

Dual StormTeks in full Immortal squad (240pts not including Orb lord)
Push up mid field with orb overlord with dual StormTeks both with lightening fields. 2D6 Str8 AP5 hits when they get charged. Go tesla for max overwatch. It glances to death light mech at 24" and destroys most things with 8 haywire shots at 12". Str 8 stops FNP on T4. Marines would get the 3+ amour saves. I am not sure how the lightening wounds are allocated? nearest from the unit? It could stop quite a few charges too.


Regular squads

Scarab squads
Work best in units of 6 I have found. Any higher they are a waste I have found. They get alot of attention for a 90pt unit. If you have a spare fast slot take them. They are becoming less useful as I am seeing less and less mech where I play but still good at tying up units that do not have Str6 or greater to double their T3 out.

Wraiths with D lord (370 Pts)
Max out the wraith squad no upgrades. D lord with weave and mind shackles. Everyone knows this works super well. Just saying again it rocks. Obviously you do lose the court access. I take the tachyon arrow for the fun of it. Most take an Orb just for him as wraiths don't benefit. He works good with scarabs too as they get so many hits.

LoneLord (130 Pts)
Necron take on lonewolves. 130 pts gets an armour bane AP1 warscythe wielding T5 2+ mind shackling monster, Super resilient and can wreck face. He rarely survives the game. Be sensitive to AP1&2 on the board. I put him in the unit below and deployed him on his own. Don't make him your warlord unless you have balls of steal (If you do go personal traits). Everliving will make people cry.


Protected Warrior squad (165 pts)
Min size warriors protected in a night Scyth. Keppt them safe and claim objectives eng game. If their ride blows up they can walk on to claim objectives nearer your deployment zone unscathed as they do not take crashing hits. Sometimes 10 shots from the warriors is enough to remove enemy troops from an objective and score yourselves.

Annihilation Barges. (270 pts)
Running three is the norm for me. AV13 with a jink is difficult to budge. Will keep Anti tank busy all game. Occasionally will swap one to get access to the death ray beam on the Doom Scythe. Don't forget turn 1 to wrap wraiths around them to obsure them as you only get jink if you moved.

Flayed ones Linebreak.
I did try to run them as a linebreaker unit but you can't always sit them in terrain in the opponents deployment and they die too quick. They do come out for friendly games.

Imotekh
His lightening can hit flyers! Only used in 1750 + point games. More of a flufft list. Nothing in the army can shoot over 24" and wraiths.

Who mans the ADL gun?
Small warrior squad normally
Harbinger of eternity with cronometron for re rolls. Go with Icarus cannon for the kill. Reroll cover saves too. Can pick out characters or special on a 6. So quad gun also works.
If you have the fast slot left a tomb blade with shadow looms for a 3+ cover save. Upgrade his eyes for 5pts for a BS5. Jet bikes can move 36" so could steal line breaker too. No RP as he is on his own.

tallerguy - I love those dual-court setups. Nice thinking there.

As far as lightning field wound allocation, i believe it's random allocation since it's not a shooting or CC attack.

Wraiths with D-Lord (or scarabs) -- don't forget to point out that his Preferred Enemy (everything) confers to the unit he's with. Re-rolling 1's to hit and to wound is great for either squad he goes with, even a blob of warriors!

 tallerguy wrote:
My favourites are

Dual courts

Small warrior squads with dual LanceTeks (135pts as long as you have two overlords)
On back field. A PITA to remove with the double ever living rolls and 5 warrior wound catchers. The number of times I have scored an objective with a sole LanceTek! They are hardly worth the fire power to take down on own and is ingored or destroyed completely with alot of overkill and a chance to pop back up again.

Dual TerrorTeks with deathmarks. (255pts)
Precision placement required from a nightscythe. Hit with both templates and then the rapid fire snipers. This one has been known about for a while but 6th and flyers have helped alot with the precision placement to maximise the flamer templates and not relie on deep striking.

Dual StormTeks in full Immortal squad (240pts not including Orb lord)
Push up mid field with orb overlord with dual StormTeks both with lightening fields. 2D6 Str8 AP5 hits when they get charged. Go tesla for max overwatch. It glances to death light mech at 24" and destroys most things with 8 haywire shots at 12". Str 8 stops FNP on T4. Marines would get the 3+ amour saves. I am not sure how the lightening wounds are allocated? nearest from the unit? It could stop quite a few charges too.


Regular squads

Scarab squads
Work best in units of 6 I have found. Any higher they are a waste I have found. They get alot of attention for a 90pt unit. If you have a spare fast slot take them. They are becoming less useful as I am seeing less and less mech where I play but still good at tying up units that do not have Str6 or greater to double their T3 out.

Wraiths with D lord (370 Pts)
Max out the wraith squad no upgrades. D lord with weave and mind shackles. Everyone knows this works super well. Just saying again it rocks. Obviously you do lose the court access. I take the tachyon arrow for the fun of it. Most take an Orb just for him as wraiths don't benefit. He works good with scarabs too as they get so many hits.

LoneLord (130 Pts)
Necron take on lonewolves. 130 pts gets an armour bane AP1 warscythe wielding T5 2+ mind shackling monster, Super resilient and can wreck face. He rarely survives the game. Be sensitive to AP1&2 on the board. I put him in the unit below and deployed him on his own. Don't make him your warlord unless you have balls of steal (If you do go personal traits). Everliving will make people cry.


Protected Warrior squad (165 pts)
Min size warriors protected in a night Scyth. Keppt them safe and claim objectives eng game. If their ride blows up they can walk on to claim objectives nearer your deployment zone unscathed as they do not take crashing hits. Sometimes 10 shots from the warriors is enough to remove enemy troops from an objective and score yourselves.

Annihilation Barges. (270 pts)
Running three is the norm for me. AV13 with a jink is difficult to budge. Will keep Anti tank busy all game. Occasionally will swap one to get access to the death ray beam on the Doom Scythe. Don't forget turn 1 to wrap wraiths around them to obsure them as you only get jink if you moved.

Flayed ones Linebreak.
I did try to run them as a linebreaker unit but you can't always sit them in terrain in the opponents deployment and they die too quick. They do come out for friendly games.

Imotekh
His lightening can hit flyers! Only used in 1750 + point games. More of a flufft list. Nothing in the army can shoot over 24" and wraiths.

Who mans the ADL gun?
Small warrior squad normally
Harbinger of eternity with cronometron for re rolls. Go with Icarus cannon for the kill. Reroll cover saves too. Can pick out characters or special on a 6. So quad gun also works.
If you have the fast slot left a tomb blade with shadow looms for a 3+ cover save. Upgrade his eyes for 5pts for a BS5. Jet bikes can move 36" so could steal line breaker too. No RP as he is on his own.

The deathmark/abyssal night scythe is extremely good, its one of my favorite ways of out right killing any deathball. A str8 ap 1 template that wounds on +2 is nasty. If anyone hasn't used this combo I would suggest using it.

 tallerguy wrote:
Min size warriors protected in a night Scyth. Keppt them safe and claim objectives eng game. If their ride blows up they can walk on to claim objectives nearer your deployment zone unscathed as they do not take crashing hits. Sometimes 10 shots from the warriors is enough to remove enemy troops from an objective and score yourselves

This is highly debatable. It does not say they avoid the damage anymore. There has been much discussion at my FLGS and in my own meta about this. The jury is still out from what I hear. I only mention it because there is no hard ruling on this (needs an FAQ) and players should be aware of what their local meta is and what a TO's ruling would be should your transport pop.

If however, you have found something that beyond a doubt proves that they should not take this damage, please forward it along, because I would love to bring this to my meta. Currently, this is what is disabling and regulating my flyer spam lists... I get a couple popped night scythes and suddenly my msu units are completely gone. I'm not complaining, only saying that this one ruling is a big deal when you are taking STR 10 hits with no armour save!

The lightening field wounds look like they are allocated in the assaults phase after over watch so would contribute to the combat resolution. It can not stop a charge as it goes off once the charging unit has made contact.

The D lord is a beast. He appears in all my lists 1500 and down. You can pick him up along with the wraiths in a night scythe too!

I did not know about the issue night scythes worm hole gateway. It is a big boon I thought everyone played it this way. I am sorry but you are stuck with the local ruling with out an FAQ. That sucks. Can we add it to the INAT FAQ if it has not been yet?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Has anyone ever considered the possibility of using a C'Tan Shard with writhing worldscape and orikan the diviner to make the entire board not only difficult but dangerous terrain?

Now that armor saves are allowed, it's not as viable a combo anymore. But yes, people have done it.

Well, this is a no-no in friendly games. Is it worth it in competitive play? Horde units generally have a low armor save and so losing two-third (or more) of a unit while moving would be nice option.

I don't know about your friendly games, but my friends just hate everything about necrons (even though they're the ones that convinced me to play them). So I say "fine, you wanna hate, here's something to really hate."




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tallerguy wrote:

Imotekh
His lightening can hit flyers! Only used in 1750 + point games. More of a flufft list. Nothing in the army can shoot over 24" and wraiths.

You may want to look up some YMDC threads about this one...the way it is right now, it probably can't.

For those of you new players who have just discovered the Writhing Worldscape C'tan + Orkian combo: do yourselves a favor and look up "TremorCron" to see how to possibly maximize this tactic.
(not as good as it was pre-6th, but that's not to say it doesn't still work).

And regarding Wraith-wing: why would you take ALL of your Wraiths naked? Surely it would be a better idea to give at least 3 of them Whip Coils?

Complete agreement in regards to shot down Night Scythes and the occupants not taking the S10 hit. (from a fluff perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're not actually on board the craft, they disembark via a wormhole on the underside of the vehicle. The only thing physically onboard

TremorCron is a terrible, terrible strategy vs everything but horde armies. Orikan is the weakest HQ in our codex as his cost-efficiency is a mess.

vs. MEQ, they need to roll a 1 or 2 (1/3 chance) to even wound them and since they may now take armorsaves, there's another 1/3 chance to add thus a squad of 10 marines is going to lose 1.

Waste so many points and a HQ choice? Not worth it.

 skoffs wrote:
For those of you new players who have just discovered the Writhing Worldscape C'tan + Orkian combo: do yourselves a favor and look up "TremorCron" to see how to possibly maximize this tactic.
(not as good as it was pre-6th, but that's not to say it doesn't still work).

And regarding Wraith-wing: why would you take ALL of your Wraiths naked? Surely it would be a better idea to give at least 3 of them Whip Coils?

Complete agreement in regards to shot down Night Scythes and the occupants not taking the S10 hit. (from a fluff perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're not actually on board the craft, they disembark via a wormhole on the underside of the vehicle. The only thing physically onboard

I took naked wraiths in my last game against BT and they (with D.Lord) survived being assaulted by assault terminators w/emperors champion. I did lose my D.Lord and 1 wraith (plus a wound) but my friend was soooo mad I beat his guys at CC.

And yes, I was DESPERATELY trying to crack open the LR to get the assault on the terminators...doom scythe, doomsday ark, some gauss pot-shots, a heavy gauss cannon shot....NONE of it pen'd the LR. So I had to assault it with my wraiths+d.lord, which promptly destroyed it.

But anyway, those naked wraiths survived 2 turns crossing the board (it was odd deployment), two assault phases with termies, another shooting phase, another assault, and were about to take out another 10 man tac squad if the game hadn't ended. Had 3 wraiths left by the end of the game. I'd say they did fine.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
For those of you new players who have just discovered the Writhing Worldscape C'tan + Orkian combo: do yourselves a favor and look up "TremorCron" to see how to possibly maximize this tactic.
(not as good as it was pre-6th, but that's not to say it doesn't still work).

And regarding Wraith-wing: why would you take ALL of your Wraiths naked? Surely it would be a better idea to give at least 3 of them Whip Coils?

Complete agreement in regards to shot down Night Scythes and the occupants not taking the S10 hit. (from a fluff perspective, it makes perfect sense. They're not actually on board the craft, they disembark via a wormhole on the underside of the vehicle. The only thing physically onboard

I took naked wraiths in my last game against BT and they (with D.Lord) survived being assaulted by assault terminators w/emperors champion. I did lose my D.Lord and 1 wraith (plus a wound) but my friend was soooo mad I beat his guys at CC.

And yes, I was DESPERATELY trying to crack open the LR to get the assault on the terminators...doom scythe, doomsday ark, some gauss pot-shots, a heavy gauss cannon shot....NONE of it pen'd the LR. So I had to assault it with my wraiths+d.lord, which promptly destroyed it.

But anyway, those naked wraiths survived 2 turns crossing the board (it was odd deployment), two assault phases with termies, another shooting phase, another assault, and were about to take out another 10 man tac squad if the game hadn't ended. Had 3 wraiths left by the end of the game. I'd say they did fine.

In 5th edition the 3 whip coil/2 naked/1 particle caster wraith setup was heavily favored where I play due to Wound Allocation Shenanigans. I personally have always done 50% of my wraith units with whip coils as well. Even without WAS they are great pieces of wargear that split up your opponent's initiative steps, which means fewer attacks coming at each initiative, and the wraiths getting to strike before all of the enemy does. All favorable for wraith survival.

As a quick for example - let's say you have 10 assault marines vs 6 wraiths. if they were naked, then all 10 ASMs would swing first, (20 attacks) hit with 10, and cause 5 wounds which would on average result in 1 dead wraith (1.65 failed saves). If you place whip coils on 3 of the wraiths, assuming a regular charge distance 3-5 marines will be in contact with coil wraiths. We'll assume 3, since if we're making the charge those are the only 3 that will count towards coil I-1 anyway. This drops the incoming attacks at I4 to 14, 7 hit, and 3.5 wound (so on average just 1 wound failed) Leaving all 6 wraiths to party and swing back at the marines, before the other attacks (which may not even survive to swing) get to go.

Splitting initiative steps is an amazing resilience factor for a second reason - let's say the wraiths take a wound at I4, well at I1 they can allocate wounds to a different model, potentially spreading around loosely wounded models without wargear manipulation.

All in all I'm a proponent of equipping all wraith squads with 50% whip coils, every game, regardless of opponent.

Oh I know all about why it was favored in fifth. But that doesn't matter now.

Yes I generally agree that it's good to have whip coils in there still but with the subtle changes to assault in 6th edition they're not as necessary as before.

Only reason I didn't take them in that game is because I would have had to sacrifice something I didn't want to sacrifice, so I just left the coils out altogether. Worked out in the end.

I don't see the purpose of giving wraiths a particle caster its just a waste of points and if you want to pop a vehicle its just better to assault it.

Sorry in advance but i just thought of this whilst reading the new chaos dex.I noticed they have alot of toughness 4 characters, dlords with warscythes hit at str7 but if you combine him with nemesor who gives him furious charge wont that be sum instant death goodness??