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crayz_d wrote:
Sorry in advance but i just thought of this whilst reading the new chaos dex.I noticed they have alot of toughness 4 characters, dlords with warscythes hit at str7 but if you combine him with nemesor who gives him furious charge wont that be sum instant death goodness??

Yes. In fact most anything that can take a warscythe is Str 5, +2 for the weapon, +1 for FC = 8 str = dead muhreens.

Cant believe i overlooked that little gem!!

Just thought of another one, bit of a differcult one to pull off due to randomness of getting psychics but bare with the idea.

You would need a ally list to get a psycher, probably master level 3 to edge your chances to get the power you need. The power im looking at is enfeeble, combo this with afew tremorteks and the obvious c'tan shard and away you go.

not the best combo but im just tryin to come up with something new.

Has anyone mentioned the party yacht? Royal court take an ark from warriors and goes for a joy ride. There are two versions, the shooty destructek(i sometimes put szeras in here for 6 total Eldritch lance shots) or the assaulty lords, both gain from open top rules.

 Sigvatr wrote:
By joining Trazyn, you also reduce your Wraith's movement by 6'', further hampering their chances to assault. Not to mention that there's no point in putting him in a melee squad when he sucks at melee...

Trazyn sucks at melee? Thats...pretty much all he does, besides score, and not die. He absolutely murders hordes (which augments the Wraiths quite nicely) and has MSS to boot. He's not ideal in challenges (heavily relying on the MSS, and his Empathic Obliterator being effectively nuetralized), but if you're running him with Oby that's not as much of an issue. Fair point on the movement, but if your DSIng them into the middle of the fray that's not as much of an issue. Plus, there certainly isn't anything keeping them glued together. Once your optimum target(s) have been beamed, you're certainly free to split the Overlords up to go munch on some troops while the Wraith jump out and do their thing.

Oh, yes he is. Overlooked that , so disregard the '6's to hit portion of the above. That certainly makes the unit better with the Beamer, and the advice not terrible, so for that i'll apologize. Still not something i'm eager to try out but it would be interesting to see a carnifex take 6 (strength?) tests.

Yeah, like I said, it's pricey, and hard to really get into an army with everything you really want. Still, it's absolutely nasty against most rocks and deaths stars, which are certainly increasing in popularity in many meta's, YMMV as always. Both GK's and the current Chaos Dex in particular are filled with preferable targets.

Bah, screw my internet, I was about to edit the second-last post of mine to "unless he fights vs hordes". The problem is that most of the time, you fight MEQ and vs. MEQ, he is absolutely terrible.

Furthermore, normally, you don't want to let your Wraiths charge hordes as mass of attacks is the only thing that can take them down reliably. Secondly, if you deepstrike them, you will be charged in the enemy turn. Thirdly, you cannot deepstrike them with Trazyn as Trazyn does not have the deepstrike ability.

You effectively reduce the movement speed of your Wraiths by 50% by joining Trazyn. By pulling off that combo, you force Wraiths to take a role they were not meant to be...Wraiths are a mobile cc unit that takes on smaller MEQ / TEQ squads. By joining Trazyn, you essentialy turn them into regular infantry that's going to charge hordes.

Sure, it can work, after all, 40k is heavily based on chance.

But on the other hand, why not let Trazyn join a unit of Lychguard? The are just as fast / slow than Wraiths (with him joined) yet do not force you to remove a Cryptek from the game should Trazyn fall and due to the latter, you got a more resilent defensive, scoring unit.

Furthermore, normally, you don't want to let your Wraiths charge hordes as mass of attacks is the only thing that can take them down reliably. Secondly, if you deepstrike them, you will be charged in the enemy turn. Thirdly, you cannot deepstrike them with Trazyn as Trazyn does not have the deepstrike ability.

If he's with Oby, he can DS all he wants. Which is kind of the whole point of that particularly unit design, all three of those elements (the Trans Beaming Wraiths, The Scoring/Relentless/Horde Killing Trazyn, and the MeQ Killing/DSing/Missle Eating Oby) all cover each other's weaknesses quite well. At a hefty price, but still, it's a very nasty unit.
And you're assuming quite a bit with them "being charged in the enemy turn." Who say's you're DSing them near anything that would even want to charge 6 Wraiths, Trazyn, and Oby? And keep in mind that Trans Beamers can be a little nasty surprise in Overwatch.

The problem is that most of the time, you fight MEQ and vs. MEQ, he is absolutely terrible.

Terrible is pretty vast overstatement. Remember, if he kills just one, he's gonna throw out a nice huge chunk of wounds. He's S5, 3 attacks, and he has MSS. A Warscythe OLord deals 1.67 MeQ wounds on the charge, Trazyn deals .44. However, that roughly every other time he kills one guy, he could easily kill 1 or 2 more do to the Empathic ability. So really, he's going to average out about the same amount of MeQ per turn, it just will be pretty sporadic, like 0, 2, 0, 3, 0, 1 etc... But, again, Wraiths/Oby will shred MeQ, Trazyn's primary contribution to this particular squad is keeping it from being bogged by horde swamps, allowing it to score, and keeping those Beamers relentless. Also, in 6th edition, large squads are getting more and more prevalent. Warrior Blobs, Cultist blobs, IG blobs, and of course Nid and Orc blobs, are all becoming pretty common place. Obviously, as you stated, the bigger the unit, the more chance for Trazyn to shine.

You effectively reduce the movement speed of your Wraiths by 50% by joining Trazyn. By pulling off that combo, you force Wraiths to take a role they were not meant to be...Wraiths are a mobile cc unit that takes on smaller MEQ / TEQ squads. By joining Trazyn, you essentialy turn them into regular infantry that's going to charge hordes.

I'm not sure about "meant to be" (although I agree that is how they are most often used), they do have the Trans Beamers as a gear option. In fact, I think this particular combo is exactly what Ward had in mind when giving them this option. And, you're not forced to do anything. If after you DS the best thing for the Wraiths to do is go off and hunt X while Trazyn and Oby tag team Y...go for it. One thing you're over looking though is, in their primary role, killing MeQ and TeQ as you say, having relentless Trans Beamers is a pretty huge bonus, particularly against TeQ. 33% chance per hit to kill a Term, not even Laz/Plaz can compare to that. Frankly, it's pretty boss, you just have to allow a paradigm shift in how you view the Wraiths (which, honestly, I'm right there with you. If there was someway to give DLords Phaeron I would be all over that gak ).

Sure, it can work, after all, 40k is heavily based on chance.

You're implying that it will only work if you're lucky. That's really not the case. The unit handles itself quite admirably, as it statically should. The real issue is when you face 5th edition IG MSU style armies that don't really have any non tank units that they care about losing all that much. Most armies, particularly out of the last three codexes (GK/Necrons/Chaos), have plenty of optimum targets to point at. Also, again, its pricey. You probably need to get into the 2250 to 2500 range before you have enough overhead to really make it function ideally.

But on the other hand, why not let Trazyn join a unit of Lychguard? The are just as fast / slow than Wraiths (with him joined) yet do not force you to remove a Cryptek from the game should Trazyn fall and due to the latter, you got a more resilent defensive, scoring unit.

Trazyn works best in an army with LG in it, no doubt. Ideally, I want to deploy Trazyn either in a unit like this, or a large Deathmark squad (a build we discussed before). The big reason is I want to take advantage of that Phaeron at some point. The tactic to use is hyper aggresive, drawing a lot of attention and focus onto the unit (and hopefully taking a lot of stuff out as you go), then, If/when Trazyn dies (the first time), he can hop over to the LG unit. As you can see in my original post, the LG unit also has Nemie, theoretically allowing for a situation where both Oby and Trazyn could end up in the LG unit with Nemie. Makes for a fun and interesting little game, whith Overlords hoping around all over the board.

ShadarLogoth wrote:


If he's with Oby, he can DS all he wants. Which is kind of the whole point of that particularly unit design, all three of those elements (the Trans Beaming Wraiths, The Scoring/Relentless/Horde Killing Trazyn, and the MeQ Killing/DSing/Missle Eating Oby) all cover each other's weaknesses quite well. At a hefty price, but still, it's a very nasty unit.

Just to be bit-picky, remember you can't enter the game via DS

And you're assuming quite a bit with them "being charged in the enemy turn." Who say's you're DSing them near anything that would even want to charge 6 Wraiths, Trazyn, and Oby? And keep in mind that Trans Beamers can be a little nasty surprise in Overwatch.

Do I? The average threat range assault-wise is 13'' (6'' movement + an average of 7'' charge distance) thus in order to be save from enemy assaults, you'd have to DS about 15-16'' away from the enemy (bases included)...which would effectly hinder your charge move in the next turn assuming you do not get charged. Trans Beamers in assault are neglible as you can only fire snapshots.

Terrible is pretty vast overstatement. Remember, if he kills just one, he's gonna throw out a nice huge chunk of wounds. He's S5, 3 attacks, and he has MSS. A Warscythe OLord deals 1.67 MeQ wounds on the charge, Trazyn deals .44. However, that roughly every other time he kills one guy, he could easily kill 1 or 2 more do to the Empathic ability.

Overall, that makes him worse than a normal Overlord with a Warscythe regarding the cc result. Not to mention that I'd always take someone more reliable rather than someone relying on luck to be effective.

So really, he's going to average out about the same amount of MeQ per turn, it just will be pretty sporadic, like 0, 2, 0, 3, 0, 1 etc... But, again, Wraiths/Oby will shred MeQ, Trazyn's primary contribution to this particular squad is keeping it from being bogged by horde swamps, allowing it to score, and keeping those Beamers relentless. Also, in 6th edition, large squads are getting more and more prevalent. Warrior Blobs, Cultist blobs, IG blobs, and of course Nid and Orc blobs, are all becoming pretty common place. Obviously, as you stated, the bigger the unit, the more chance for Trazyn to shine.

That's my point though. I never said your way is not going to work, it's just very points-ineffective. You pay so many points just to be able to fire the beams and get nothing in cc against anything but hordes - a unit you should not assault anyway with Wraiths. Assaulting hordes with Necrons is, imo, a pretty bad idea because we have tesla weaponry that excels at taking those out. Necrons are no cc army. Wraiths are a good cc unit, no doubt, but as stated above, they have their use - a supportive use. They are meant to work as support for your shooting units, not the other way around.

In the end...whatever floats your boat. It's one of many ways to run a unit / army. Is it cost-effective? No. It effectively is a deathstar that will attract a lot of fire yet it's scoring which is rare for deathstars.

 Sigvatr wrote:

ShadarLogoth wrote:


If he's with Oby, he can DS all he wants. Which is kind of the whole point of that particularly unit design, all three of those elements (the Trans Beaming Wraiths, The Scoring/Relentless/Horde Killing Trazyn, and the MeQ Killing/DSing/Missle Eating Oby) all cover each other's weaknesses quite well. At a hefty price, but still, it's a very nasty unit.

Just to be bit-picky, remember you can't enter the game via DS

Just to be picky -
Necron FAQ v1.1:
Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board
when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)
A: Yes.

and the first sentence of the Ghostwalk Mantle tells us that it is a Veil of Darkness.

Woah, thanks for pointing that out

Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

Well you're not allowed to put them in deep strike reserve anyway so I guess it's a good thing you can use the veil from off-board.

Point is you have options when coming onto the field.

I actually didn't know you can ghost walk mantle from reserve. Awesome to know.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For the next topic of discussion, what do you guys think about the harbinger of eternity? Do you guys think that only the chronometron is good without Imotekh or does it have varied uses?

Do I? The average threat range assault-wise is 13'' (6'' movement + an average of 7'' charge distance) thus in order to be save from enemy assaults, you'd have to DS about 15-16'' away from the enemy (bases included)...which would effectly hinder your charge move in the next turn assuming you do not get charged. Trans Beamers in assault are neglible as you can only fire snapshots.

Sorry, what I really meant was you're assuming that anything would want to assault 6 Wraitsh, Obyron, and Trazyn.

Overall, that makes him worse than a normal Overlord with a Warscythe regarding the cc result. Not to mention that I'd always take someone more reliable rather than someone relying on luck to be effective.

Everything in the game relies on luck. Like, literally everything. The Overlord with the Warscythe is going to whiff sometimes, as is Trazyn. The Overlord with the Warscythe will be a bit more dependable against MeQ and TeQ, but Trazyn will be better against all other troops. So really, the combat prowess between them is really quite close, all things considered. Even giving the Overlord a slight nod against MeQ (and it really is only a slight nod) while recognizing them as very prevalent opponent, Trazyn also scores and doesn't die. The whole package is what makes him worth considering, particularly in a unique unit such as this one.

That's my point though. I never said your way is not going to work, it's just very points-ineffective. You pay so many points just to be able to fire the beams and get nothing in cc against anything but hordes - a unit you should not assault anyway with Wraiths. Assaulting hordes with Necrons is, imo, a pretty bad idea because we have tesla weaponry that excels at taking those out. Necrons are no cc army. Wraiths are a good cc unit, no doubt, but as stated above, they have their use - a supportive use. They are meant to work as support for your shooting units, not the other way around.

I don't know how you can look at a model with MSS and the Empathic Obliterator and keep saying "get nothing in cc against anything but horde." MSS is good against anything but hordes, and the EO is great against hordes. Really, he's average against MeQ, and that's only if he can't MSS a serg or something with decent CC weapon, then he goes from only average to pretty good.

Overall though, it's the way the unit fits together that you seem to be missing. I wouldn't attack Hordes with a normal Wraith unit, Ill grant you that. However, this Wraith unit, with Trazyn and Oby, would kick the crap out of just about any Horde it came across. It's interesting to me that you see Tesla as some hard counter to Hordes and yet disparage Trazyn for being "Luck Based." Few things in the game are as boom and bust as Tesla is.

As far as Necron's not being an army capable of CC, I just completely disagree. They have CC in every single slot (although of course the troop slot takes a bit of finagling), and have access to tools like Viels, strong JI, and Night Fighting. I've been playing a predominantly CC force for a year now (not one with this combo, mind you), and I have yet to come across an army that can out CC my Crons. We'll see what portents this new Chaos Codex brings, but so far I've quite convincingly whitenessed that the "Necrons are not a CC army" meme is a completely false perception, largely revolving around people making way to big of a deal of I2.

In the end...whatever floats your boat. It's one of many ways to run a unit / army. Is it cost-effective? No. It effectively is a deathstar that will attract a lot of fire yet it's scoring which is rare for deathstars.

No doubt. Keep in mind I've said quite repeatedly that the unit is pricey and probably not the most efficient, primarily because the unit will die rather quickly to a concentration of fire power, as any Wriath unit will. Oby can eat some Missles and the like to slightly up their survivablity, they still present such an obvious target it can be difficult to keep them alive past the first Ghostwalk and volley of shots.

Still, in a larger game you can fit them alongside a threat overload concept. And they are a unique and fun unit to wield, which is always worth playing around with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

For the next topic of discussion, what do you guys think about the harbinger of eternity? Do you guys think that only the chronometron is good without Imotekh or does it have varied uses?

Imo, Orikan, and a Lancetek Royal Court are probably the three most often used applications for him. Really any Royal Court is a good place for him, as well as any "Tanked Out" Overlord like Imo, where you're investing in the Semp Weave, Phase Shifter, Res Orb, even a Phylactery gets a bit more interesting in these circumstances.

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

And if you have Nemesor Zahndrek in your army, Obyron and friends can Deep Strike on any of your opponent's turns if your opponent brings on anything from reserve.

Sorry, what I really meant was you're assuming that anything would want to assault 6 Wraitsh, Obyron, and Trazyn.

Oh, my bad :/ Assaulting such a unit would be a good idea unless you had defensive grenades. In the latter case, I'd rather get some Overwatch hits in.

The Overlord with the Warscythe is going to whiff sometimes, as is Trazyn. The Overlord with the Warscythe will be a bit more dependable against MeQ and TeQ, but Trazyn will be better against all other troops.

Gotta be careful here. "All other troops" sounds like it would apply to a majority of troops yet the opposite is the case: MEQ/TEQ are the vast majority of enemies you will encounter with Adeptus Astartes and Necrons being the most played army. Not to mention that you'll also be able to damage vehicles with an Overlord whereas Trazyn cannot even scratch them.

So really, the combat prowess between them is really quite close, all things considered. Even giving the Overlord a slight nod against MeQ (and it really is only a slight nod) while recognizing them as very prevalent opponent, Trazyn also scores and doesn't die. The whole package is what makes him worth considering, particularly in a unique unit such as this one.

You pay a huge extra for those abilities though. The "doesn't die" part can be good and bad. While it certainly is good if you do not lose your HQ, you might end up having Trazyn in the back of your army, right in another unit, replacing a viable court member while he suddenly finds himself trapped in a unit he can't do much anymore. I agree with the scoring part, that's a nice ability, especially considerung stuff like Linebreaker.

I don't know how you can look at a model with MSS and the Empathic Obliterator and keep saying "get nothing in cc against anything but horde." MSS is good against anything but hordes, and the EO is great against hordes. Really, he's average against MeQ, and that's only if he can't MSS a serg or something with decent CC weapon, then he goes from only average to pretty good.

My point is not that he isn't good, my point is that he is more expensive and less effective than a cc overlord - against most enemies aka MEQ/TEQ.

Overall though, it's the way the unit fits together that you seem to be missing. I wouldn't attack Hordes with a normal Wraith unit, Ill grant you that. However, this Wraith unit, with Trazyn and Oby, would kick the crap out of just about any Horde it came across. It's interesting to me that you see Tesla as some hard counter to Hordes and yet disparage Trazyn for being "Luck Based." Few things in the game are as boom and bust as Tesla is.

Reliability. That's where I'm at. A Tesla Annihilator deals about 6-7 S7 hits per turn thus it will deal about 6 wounds to any enemy unit and against most hordes, those result in 4-5 dead bodies. Sure, that's less than Trazyn might deal. But you get 2-3 shooting phases before the assault and for Trazyn's points, you could easily fit two Annihilation Barges in. That's 8-10 dead bodies per shooting phase...thus in 2-3 turns, you effectively take a horde unit out.

Trazyn is less reliable than a CC Overlord, that's why I would not take him, not because he is bad (because he isn't). I don't pay so many points for a model that does not even have a mere power weapon!

As far as Necron's not being an army capable of CC, I just completely disagree. They have CC in every single slot (although of course the troop slot takes a bit of finagling), and have access to tools like Viels, strong JI, and Night Fighting. I've been playing a predominantly CC force for a year now (not one with this combo, mind you), and I have yet to come across an army that can out CC my Crons. We'll see what portents this new Chaos Codex brings, but so far I've quite convincingly whitenessed that the "Necrons are not a CC army" meme is a completely false perception, largely revolving around people making way to big of a deal of I2.

You got me wrong there. Necrons *can* be capable of cc. Hell, we got Wraiths! My main point is that they are likely to be more effective when mainly being played as a shooty army with additional melee support.

No doubt. Keep in mind I've said quite repeatedly that the unit is pricey and probably not the most efficient, primarily because the unit will die rather quickly to a concentration of fire power, as any Wriath unit will. Oby can eat some Missles and the like to slightly up their survivablity, they still present such an obvious target it can be difficult to keep them alive past the first Ghostwalk and volley of shots.

Yep. What irritates me the most is why you'd like to cripple a unit of Wraiths to fit Trazyn in - you lower their potential to make them more well-rounded yet a unit of LG would be a better fit, imo, especially considering that Trazyn would be able to stay in melee after he "dies" and you don't lose out on 6'' of movement.

Still, in a larger game you can fit them alongside a threat overload concept. And they are a unique and fun unit to wield, which is always worth playing around with.

Amen to that. I don't want to tell anyone how to play, and I think that nobody can. My main point always resolves around efficiency...because, well, it's pretty clear that you can play the way you want and we would not need a forum to discuss those ideas

People should play just as it's most fun to them, tournaments are a different issue. I myself still play an altered version of the good ol' Necron Phalanx (updated with 2 Ghost Arks) and do not own a single flier...I just can't stand seeing a Necron army with fliers! And I'm not one of these WAAC lamers who need to compensate...ye know, there's a negative corrolation between the amount of fliers you use and your coc...

...hlea.

People should play just as it's most fun to them, tournaments are a different issue. I myself still play an altered version of the good ol' Necron Phalanx (updated with 2 Ghost Arks) and do not own a single flier...I just can't stand seeing a Necron army with fliers! And I'm not one of these WAAC lamers who need to compensate...ye know, there's a negative corrolation between the amount of fliers you use and your coc...

How do you counter Flyers and fast moving cc units approaching your front ranks?

Moreover, a phalanx is not very mobile and Necron weapons usually have short range (24''). So how do you take on nasty (shooty) units in the enemy backfield?

 wuestenfux wrote:

How do you counter Flyers and fast moving cc units approaching your front ranks?

Moreover, a phalanx is not very mobile and Necron weapons usually have short range (24''). So how do you take on nasty (shooty) units in the enemy backfield?

Flyers are usually taken out by my 3 Annihilation Barges, they do a good job at taking them down. Even a single 6 means 3 S7 hits and since most flyers are AV 11/12, that's a good chance to take those things down. Fortunately, nobody in our area got a flyer spam list...I'd most likely be at a loss vs. such a list but hell, who isn't?

The Phalanx isn't very mobile, but it's extremely durable. Its main goal, however, is to attract fire. It's extremely hard to take a blob of 20 Warriors down with shooting as they got 4+ RP, get about 4 new Warriors per turn thanks to the GA and still have their normal 4+. Their main flaw is being charged, but my watchful Wraiths or rather 1 unit of watchful Wraiths will take care of melee attackers. Those guys have to get close enough anyway...my Destrocourt sits in 1 GA and kills everything TEQ with ease. The blob itself is also protected by the GA's positioning and 1 unit of Immortals covers 1 flank.

The point is that you cannot ignore the blob...it's scoring and with Zandrekh, any vehicle is doomed to explode with a chance of almost 100%. And if the squad makes it to a mission marker within terrain....use cover. Warriors in ruins with a 3+ cover save? Hell yeah. (To clarify: we use terrain placement similar to the NOVA rules).

Nasty long-range backyard units usually fall prey to my Wraiths. Just recently faced a unit of 10 Lootaz trying to shoot me apart...and my Wraiths took care of them. I also use a squad of Heavy Destroyers to take care of those pesky template tanks and while the internet community seems to despise them, they still have to let me down. So many Land Raiders have fallen...

Truth be told, I don't take part in GT and I would likely lose...but that's one reason why I prefer smaller local tournaments with 20 or less participants: you don't have to join the arms race of trying to get the latest overpowered stuff. That being said, we got 2 fairly good GK players and those Vindicare Cheeseshooters are major pita. Night Fight helps a lot though.

 Zathras wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

And if you have Nemesor Zahndrek in your army, Obyron and friends can Deep Strike on any of your opponent's turns if your opponent brings on anything from reserve.

Obyron does not have deep strike and can't benefit from that rule.

Sigvatr, thanks for the reply. It makes sense. The phalanx is still viable.

I think I found a way to make Trayzn actually infinite. In order to do this you would need a ghost ark, a unit of warriors with a member of the royal court and of course Trayzn. If trayzn were ever to die he would respawn in the group of warriors and take the place of the court member and the ghost ark would bring back the court with the repair barge rule. The only flaw would be that the unit size of the group of warriors can not exceed its original size, but that shouldn't be much a problem. Rinse and Repeat.

Also, what is the reason you can't use phased reinforcements with a veil of darkness?

 sounddemon wrote:
I think I found a way to make Trayzn actually infinite. In order to do this you would need a ghost ark, a unit of warriors with a member of the royal court and of course Trayzn. If trayzn were ever to die he would respawn in the group of warriors and take the place of the court member and the ghost ark would bring back the court with the repair barge rule. The only flaw would be that the unit size of the group of warriors can not exceed its original size, but that shouldn't be much a problem. Rinse and Repeat.

Also, what is the reason you can't use phased reinforcements with a veil of darkness?

Because the veil of darkness does not grant the deep strike rule. Also, the FAQ disallows it for crypteks joined to deathmarks. Also, Obryon can not go into "deepstrike reserve" due to this.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Because the veil of darkness does not grant the deep strike rule.

From the FAQ:

Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board
when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)
A: Yes.

Given that the veil is a deep strike rule, I think it does work?

 Kevin949 wrote:
Also, the FAQ disallows it for crypteks joined to deathmarks.

Q: Do models from a Royal Court that are attached to a Deathmark Squad benefit from the Hunters from Hyperspace special rule? (p90)
A: Yes.

Q: Can a unit of Deathmarks with an attached model from a Royal Court Deep Strike? (p90)
A: No. Every model in a unit must have the Deep Strike special rule for it to do so.

Seems clear. There may be a debate as to whether the veil of darkness gives deep strike rule? Otherwise it's a Night Scythe tactic.

 Kevin949 wrote:
Also, Obryon can not go into "deepstrike reserve" due to this.

Although presumably he can deep strike on, with his unit, using his own cloak, but can't use someone else's deep strike, such as a deathmark's deep strike ability?

No, he uses his normal movement and supplants the movement rules with the rules for deep striking. This does not give him the deep strike rule and does not allow him to go into deep strike reserves.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Zathras wrote:

 Gangrel767 wrote:
Makes the Veil so awesome, because the way I read it, you don't have to deep strike reserve, you can normal reserve the unit and choose to deep strike them in when the unit arrives. Very tactical.

And if you have Nemesor Zahndrek in your army, Obyron and friends can Deep Strike on any of your opponent's turns if your opponent brings on anything from reserve.

Obyron does not have deep strike and can't benefit from that rule.

The Ghostwalk Mantle is a Veil of Darkness, which allows deep strike, so he most definitely can do this.

The only thing I think Kevin949 is arguing is that he can not Deep Strike during the enemy's turn as per Nemsor's reinforcement rule - apologies if I'm wrong.

Which I do agree with as the veil or ghostwalk mantle don't give the deep strike rules explicitly.

Ffyllotek

Oh, I see here. sorry about that. Hmm.. you may be right on that one. You can move as if you had the deep strike rule, and move onto the table from reserve as if you had the deep strike rules, but you aren't a deep strike unit. A Great Point.

Yes, that is all I was getting at.

Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, not really.

To be honest, I rarely use the CCB. Only if I have the points to spare but I'd probably rather spend the extra 10 for the annihilation barge.