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 Kevin949 wrote:
No, he uses his normal movement and supplants the movement rules with the rules for deep striking. This does not give him the deep strike rule and does not allow him to go into deep strike reserves.

This is incorrect.

Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board

when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)

A: Yes

.

I really like the mobility of the CCB and the protection that the Overlord gets from the chariot, but I find the CCB difficult to use. A lack of a phase shifter makes the Overlord weak to ap 2 weapons and likely to die. How do you guys use your Overlord with CCB at its full potential?

With a Phase Shifter. Also hold in reserve if you don't get turn one. Personally I find it far to vulnerable and prefer my Overlords in Squads if Immortals on board a Nigtscythe.

A dozen tachyon arrows and a triarch stalker


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Baronyu wrote:
Some newbie necron questions, figure this is as good a place to ask as any!

Are wraiths only worth taking with a d-lord? If I can only afford 5 of them with only 2 whip coils(that's legal, right?), is it better to spend the points elsewhere?

And how do people usually use their triarch stalker, if anyone even use them? I'm thinking TL heavy gauss cannon as a long range AT and secondary target marking for the army.

Lastly, why do I see people advising others to bring overlord with warscythe even if he's being deployed with a shooting unit? He's still dead if they get assaulted, so wouldn't a staff of light or gauntlet of fire be better for the counter-assault purpose, overwatch and all?

Thanks in advance!

Wraiths are worth taking if you have at least six in your army. If younput a Dlord with them that helps them. Whip coils are the best upgrade for wraiths. Triarch stalkesr aren't worth their points. With only one weapon and being a walker with 11 all arousal and with quantum shielding wont do much. Wrascythes in cc give a +2 strength.

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, I don't think so.
I battled Plague Marine at the weekend and the DLord plus Wraiths did the work in cc, while the Night Scythes and ABs took the shooting part.
I had a Lord in a CCB, but its too fragile in cc. Next time, I'm taking him out. By the way, I slaughters Chaos badly.

 wuestenfux wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, I don't think so.
I battled Plague Marine at the weekend and the DLord plus Wraiths did the work in cc, while the Night Scythes and ABs took the shooting part.
I had a Lord in a CCB, but its too fragile in cc. Next time, I'm taking him out. By the way, I slaughters Chaos badly.

I fully agree. The new rules for moving really crippled the CCB. It isn't terrible, but it now is a very expensive unit that has to be in melta range in order to be effective. You will get at max 1 turn of attacking before the vehicle blows up. Not worth taking imo.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 wuestenfux wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
Do you guys think that an overlord with a CCB is staple in every necron list?

No, I don't think so.
I battled Plague Marine at the weekend and the DLord plus Wraiths did the work in cc, while the Night Scythes and ABs took the shooting part.
I had a Lord in a CCB, but its too fragile in cc. Next time, I'm taking him out. By the way, I slaughters Chaos badly.

I fully agree. The new rules for moving really crippled the CCB. It isn't terrible, but it now is a very expensive unit that has to be in melta range in order to be effective. You will get at max 1 turn of attacking before the vehicle blows up. Not worth taking imo.

In fact, its no longer worth taking it.
On the other hand, its a nice model and chariots are rarely seen at 40k battle fields. So it can be fun to play it. But for competitive play, I'd stay away from it. Instead, think about a named character or one or two DLords.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

 Kevin949 wrote:
No, he uses his normal movement and supplants the movement rules with the rules for deep striking. This does not give him the deep strike rule and does not allow him to go into deep strike reserves.

This is incorrect.

Q: Can a veil of darkness be used instead of moving onto the board

when a unit arrives from reserve? (p84)

A: Yes

.

No, it's not incorrect, you're just not understanding what I was actually talking about.

So Triarch Stalkers aren't really worth it then? I know they're force multipliers and can better help take down tougher units by allowing a great volume of shots, so why not take them?

KelCJ wrote:
So Triarch Stalkers aren't really worth it then? I know they're force multipliers and can better help take down tougher units by allowing a great volume of shots, so why not take them?

Most of our shooting already is Twin-Linked, mainly Tesla Annihilators, on flyers or AB alike and Heavy Destroyers already got Preferred Enemy.Furthermore, they really suffer from that slowed open-topped rule. They are worth it if you take Doomsday Arks, but other than that, I'd not take them.

They are mediocre. Not bad, not good either.

In all honesty, Triarch stalkers are good but are overshadowed by cheaper units that provide more for their cost. Deathmarks/HoD do more damage and wipe out units extremely effectively and accordingly. The only use I see with the Triarch stalker is being able to make a foot slogging list's shots TL.

 sounddemon wrote:
In all honesty, Triarch stalkers are good but are overshadowed by cheaper units that provide more for their cost.

The same is true for almost all of our Elites.

I've had great success personally with triarch stalkers.

I'm assuming that when you guys used Stalkers you gave them Heavy Gauss Cannons.

 sounddemon wrote:
I'm assuming that when you guys used Stalkers you gave them Heavy Gauss Cannons.

I have one with that and one with the melta. Typically if I only take one in my list though, I take the TL Heavy gauss.

What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Imotehk, hands down. That guy is a beast.

 sounddemon wrote:
What do you guys think is the best competitive named HQ? My vote is for Nemesor Zandrekh.

Zahndrekh/Obyron combo as far as Special characters go. Of all the HQs the kitted out Deatroyer Lord is king.

I vote destroyer lord with wraith retinue for sheer killing power.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
I vote destroyer lord with wraith retinue for sheer killing power.

He said named

I think they all have a place, but Imo has gotten the most mileage for me thus far. I think Nemesor has proven quite capable in competitive games though, and Trazyn has always intrigued me with his ability to make a large death star (like LG or RC) scoring.

When is it a good time to field Imotekh? I would imagine he would be bested suited against long range armies.

Named

Nemesor>Obyron>trazyn>imotekh>anrakyr

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Named

Nemesor>Obyron>trazyn>imotekh>anrakyr

Really? Don't get me wrong, as I said, I kind of like them all, but Imotekh is just a steal for everything he brings to the table. Granted, you really have to build your list around him, but when you do, man is he nasty.

My only issue with Imotek is the lack of warscythe and MSS, I mean, his lightning and night fighting are pretty good(if unpredictable) but phaeron and blood nanoscarabs are useless., as is gauntlet of fire) Staoof of the destroyer is meh.

You guys have any sucesses with a tesseract labrynth? I wonder if its worth taking on overlord/lord/DL

Imotek would be so much better with just an Orb. His cost at 225pts, might as well be 325 after you pay for the RC lord to babysit him.

I'm starting up necrons for my second army, and was thinking of this list as a good start. I'm not aiming for super competitive (I've got my guard for that), but something that will perform well. I don't want any fliers. They dum.

Necrons 1500pts

-Overlord: Warscythe, Weave, Orb, Shackles
-Tremortek: Crucible
-Warriors x20

-Lancetek
-Warriors x5

-Volttek
-Warriors x9
-Ghost Ark

-Dispairtek: Veil
-Deathmarks x6

-Stalker

-Annihilation Barge

-Annihilation Barge

-Doomsday Ark


Is this a good launching point?

 Exalted Pariah wrote:
My only issue with Imotek is the lack of warscythe and MSS, I mean, his lightning and night fighting are pretty good(if unpredictable) but phaeron and blood nanoscarabs are useless., as is gauntlet of fire) Staoof of the destroyer is meh.

You guys have any sucesses with a tesseract labrynth? I wonder if its worth taking on overlord/lord/DL

Phaeron is the most signficant CC upgrade you can give a foot Lord that will be in a Warrior blob. Much more significant then MSS or WS. Gauntlets are actually better then WS against some targets (Hordes) and are far from useless, in fact couple with challenges and humilating defeat, you'll generally get more wounds towards combat res out of Imo then you would with your normal WS OIord. Combining all that with his incredible resiliency and the fact that lightning alone will give you the damage output of at least an ABarge in most games and he start to realize what a steal he is.

And blood nano is far from useless if you bring Flayed Ones, which if your bringing Imo you really should be considering anyway as they fit perfectly with what he does.


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 NecronLord3 wrote:
Imotek would be so much better with just an Orb. His cost at 225pts, might as well be 325 after you pay for the RC lord to babysit him.

He would be pretty broken if he had a Res Orb on top of what he already has. I actually seldom run him with one, as his one slot almost always gets a chronotek instead (although I do run a Dlord with/res Orb in the list that has been known to hop over to Imo's blob on occasion).

ShadarLogoth wrote:

Phaeron is the most signficant CC upgrade you can give a foot Lord that will be in a Warrior blob. Much more significant then MSS or WS. Gauntlets are actually better then WS against some targets (Hordes) and are far from useless, in fact couple with challenges and humilating defeat, you'll generally get more wounds towards combat res out of Imo then you would with your normal WS OIord. Combining all that with his incredible resiliency and the fact that lightning alone will give you the damage output of at least an ABarge in most games and he start to realize what a steal he is.

And blood nano is far from useless if you bring Flayed Ones, which if your bringing Imo you really should be considering anyway as they fit perfectly with what he does.

Seriously, I *have* to step in here. New players might read the part about Imotekh and be heavily misled.

Phaeron is FAR from being the most significant CC upgrade a blob can get. Zandrekh just makes Imotekh look like an idiot with his updates. Counter-Attack is FAR better than Phaeron and comes at the price of 5 (!) points. More significant than MSS or WS? Not even close. Imotekh will not kill anything in a challenge. He has S5 and no AP which basically means that most of the time, his enemies have a 3+ or better against his 3 attacks. He's going to get like 2 attacks in. 2 Attacks without AP. Any Lord with a Warscythe will just wreck face in melee / a challenge and let's not even start about MSS that clearly are one of the, if not THE best piece of equipment one can get in our codex.

Gauntlets are terrible. You say they do more vs. hordes. Yes. You then assume, though, that you will go in cc with a horde and guess what will happen? You will die. A blob with Imotekh has nothing to kill hordes and is likely to get swept in the very first turn of combat.

You get more wounds in?! See above for Imotekh's offensive potential. You assume that he will actually kill stuff in challenges. That will not happen. Seriously, it won't.

Blood Nano is the most worthless upgrade we can get (after Phaeron) as they improve the by far worst piece of metal garbage we can field. FO are utter trash tier and useless most of the time. The fact that you can't even choose which unit gets hit is just the icing on the cake.

Imotekh can be extremely useful in team battles, he really excels there, but in a normal 1vs1, he is way overpriced. Nemesor Zandrekh is, by far, the best HQ we can field with Obyron as a close second because he allows you to take 4 HQ slots.

Sorry, that's just completely innacurate. Turning the Warriors weapons into Assault 2 will have a much greater impact on the assault phase against most opponents then WS/MSS will. You're basically adding 40 attacks to the equation, that alone is enough to eradicate most hordes, and take a serious chunk out of MeQ. WS is worth a wound or two, and MSS is worth a wound or two every other round.

You're way over estimating the difference between Gauntlets and a WS. Against MeQ on the charge a WS kills 1.67 MeQ. Gauntlets kill .89 (wait, isn't that almost exactly what you need to win a challenge against most vets/champions...I think it is). So basically, if you can kill ONE guy with the template prior to assaulting, the Gauntlets are completely superior until you get to the second round of combat.

Gauntlets are terrible. You say they do more vs. hordes. Yes. You then assume, though, that you will go in cc with a horde and guess what will happen? You will die. A blob with Imotekh has nothing to kill hordes and is likely to get swept in the very first turn of combat.

Sorry, this is just completely wrong. A Warrior blob should always dictate the assault against a Horde and with Phaeron should always win, baring horrible luck. Please tell me the horde unit that will be any more then a trivial amount of resistance once it's eaten 40 shots and a flamer template. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

You get more wounds in?! See above for Imotekh's offensive potential. You assume that he will actually kill stuff in challenges. That will not happen. Seriously, it won't.

He does close to a Wound a turn, unless he's fighting TeQ, in which case they will mostly just bounce off each other, which still can be effective as it keeps a CC monster off your Warriors. You never actually run Imo in 6th edition before have you? And once he kills the guy, he gets an extra d3 wounds towards combat res. So, more often the not, you will double tap/template, assault, challenge, kill (or get them to hide from the assault, just as well), and win the first round of combat.

Blood Nano is the most worthless upgrade we can get (after Phaeron) as they improve the by far worst piece of metal garbage we can field. FO are utter trash tier and useless most of the time. The fact that you can't even choose which unit gets hit is just the icing on the cake.

I guarantee you I've played more games with Flayed Ones then the bulk of Dakka combined, and I know from repeated personal experience that this notion of them is tied into pre-concieved notions with little to know actual experience. I've had several threads on Dakka about them and everytime, without fail, the people who have actually used them regularly have much higher opinions of them then the people who hate the models and have convinced themselves they suck because the believed the press clippings. They're a CC unit that can, point for point, take out TH/SS termies, one of the most feared CC units in the game. If they get running with a DLord they are even nastier. I'm not going to derail this thread, but I find it silly when people who have zero experience with a unit go around telling other people how much a unit is trash.


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Zandrekh just makes Imotekh look like an idiot with his updates. Counter-Attack is FAR better than Phaeron and comes at the price of 5 (!) points. Nemesor Zandrekh is, by far, the best HQ we can field with Obyron as a close second because he allows you to take 4 HQ slots.

4? More like 3....but fair point about Nemie, I certainly never said he was a bad deal. However, if you add up Imo's buffs, he's basically paying 30 points for the Staff, Lighniting, Night Fighting, Scarabs, and extra d3 from combat res. Considering the lighting alone is easily worth 90 (the price of an ABarge), I would say Imo is an even bigger steal the Nemie, although more restricted in the type of army he can be maximized in (as he does nerf your shooting as well).

ShadarLogoth wrote:
Sorry, that's just completely innacurate. Turning the Warriors weapons into Assault 2 will have a much greater impact on the assault phase against most opponents then WS/MSS will. You're basically adding 40 attacks to the equation, that alone is enough to eradicate most hordes, and take a serious chunk out of MeQ. WS is worth a wound or two, and MSS is worth a wound or two every other round.

Blob of 20 Warriors with Counter-Attack and a Res-Orb. Enemy is in assault range, you move 12'' away, rapid fire 40 shots + 3 additional AP3 shots with Zandrekh's staff of light. Enemy charges the next turn and gets another volley of 40 shots at him, with Snap Fire in mind resulting in 6-7 additional hits. Add in another Cryptek, e.g. Harbinger of the Storm w/ Lightning Field, as you greatly save points compared to taking Imotekh. Imotekh got nothing on that.

You're way over estimating the difference between Gauntlets and a WS. Against MeQ on the charge a WS kills 1.67 MeQ. Gauntlets kill .89 (wait, isn't that almost exactly what you need to win a challenge against most vets/champions...I think it is). So basically, if you can kill ONE guy with the template prior to assaulting, the Gauntlets are completely superior until you get to the second round of combat.

You got a major flaw in your argumentation : overwatch wounds do not count towards combat resolution so all that matters is the actual combat result - and Warscythes far, far outshine the Gauntlets here. More damage, more versatile, and, most of all, AP1. And hey, if you want to be offensive: Furios Charge. Suddenly, you ID everything with T4.

Sorry, this is just completely wrong. A Warrior blob should always dictate the assault against a Horde and with Phaeron should always win, baring horrible luck. Please tell me the horde unit that will be any more then a trivial amount of resistance once it's eaten 40 shots and a flamer template. Thanks, I'll hang up and listen.

Vacuum. 20 Warriors with a 4+ save and 5+ RP. Unless you back them up with 2 GA, your blob will never make it to the enemy in one piece. I play a Phalanx army at tournaments and you *will* get shot at. Imotekh does absolutely nothing for survivability bar night fighting - and you have to be lucky with that. Not to mention you cripple your own shooting.

He does close to a Wound a turn, unless he's fighting TeQ, in which case they will mostly just bounce off each other, which still can be effective as it keeps a CC monster off your Warriors. You never actually run Imo in 6th edition before have you? And once he kills the guy, he gets an extra d3 wounds towards combat res. So, more often the not, you will double tap/template, assault, challenge, kill (or get them to hide from the assault, just as well), and win the first round of combat.

I run Imotekh in every team tournament. It's a no-brainer. You haven't played against that many good opponents yet I assume? Who would accept a challenge against Imotekh with someone who doesn't kill him? If you only have a normal sergeant, you can just deny the challenge and let the hits bounce off your normal squad members. Against pretty much most other HQs, Imotekh is terrible as he lacks AP weapons while most others have those. I don't get why GW decided to put this special rule on a character that isn't good at melee. Meh.

Blood Nano is the most worthless upgrade we can get (after Phaeron) as they improve the by far worst piece of metal garbage we can field. FO are utter trash tier and useless most of the time. The fact that you can't even choose which unit gets hit is just the icing on the cake.

I guarantee you I've played more games with Flayed Ones then the bulk of Dakka combined, and I know from repeated personal experience that this notion of them is tied into pre-concieved notions with little to know actual experience. I've had several threads on Dakka about them and everytime, without fail, the people who have actually used them regularly have much higher opinions of them then the people who hate the models and have convinced themselves they suck because the believed the press clippings. They're a CC unit that can, point for point, take out TH/SS termies, one of the most feared CC units in the game. If they get running with a DLord they are even nastier. I'm not going to derail this thread, but I find it silly when people who have zero experience with a unit go around telling other people how much a unit is trash.

Point me to a successful tournament list that uses FO. Much appreciated.

4? More like 3....but fair point about Nemie, I certainly never said he was a bad deal. However, if you add up Imo's buffs, he's basically paying 30 points for the Staff, Lighniting, Night Fighting, Scarabs, and extra d3 from combat res. Considering the lighting alone is easily worth 90 (the price of an ABarge), I would say Imo is an even bigger steal the Nemie, although more restricted in the type of army he can be maximized in (as he does nerf your shooting as well).

Nah, 4 slots

1. Nemesor Zandrekh
2. Vargard Obyron
3. Royal Court
4. another HQ of your choice, e.g. Destroyer Lord to go with your Wraiths

Hmm...I want to clarify again: Imotekh is not bad. Not at all. I always use him in team tournaments as his lightnings are just ridiculous vs. two enemies. In a regular match, he just struggles proving his worth. 225 points is a LOT and he cannot make up for the high cost, especially not with HQ like Zandrekh who are better in any regard, take in Obyron and Imotekh can only cry in a dark corner and write sad robot poems

/e: Meh, my posts sounds rather hostile. It's not intended to do, just to clarfiy