Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Eh....wait. Does that mean that when I have a squad of 4 normal Destroyers and 1 Heavy Destroyer, my normal Destroyers now get to hit everything at 36''?

I really doubt that's what GW was going for.

I'm in agreement, but the FAQ does only really lead to one interpretation. Personally, I don't plan on relying on this mechanism until GW further clarifies in another FAQ. It just doesn't feel right to me.

Ye, pretty sure that's just a mistake they made. I mean, a squad with pistols and a lascannon suddenly gets 36'' pistols? 3x the normal range? Highly, highly doubtful.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Eh....wait. Does that mean that when I have a squad of 4 normal Destroyers and 1 Heavy Destroyer, my normal Destroyers now get to hit everything at 36''?

I really doubt that's what GW was going for.

No, you are able to allocate wounds in the wound pool, that you normally would not be able to do, past 24'.

You still have to be in the 24' range to hit them, but now, instead of being unable to allocate wounds beyond that weapons range, you can if you have a weapon in the squad that has increased range.

Yes, not sure what the 23.9" was referencing? You must still be able to draw range from each of your models firing to at least 1 model in the opposing unit. You just have the added benefit of causing more potential wounds when you include a Cryptek or other long ranged option in mixed Armour squads.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Eh....wait. Does that mean that when I have a squad of 4 normal Destroyers and 1 Heavy Destroyer, my normal Destroyers now get to hit everything at 36''?

I really doubt that's what GW was going for.

Only if there is at least on model in that unit with 24". If the entire units is outside of 24" (but within 36") only the Heavy D can hit and wound the unit. As Azazel said it brings it more functionally inline with the way 5th worked mechanically. Personally I kinda wish they treated each weapon profile separately as far as wound field, although I suppose that could open up some sort of exploit they were trying to eliminate. One thing this does do is put a premium on the range of your special weapons. Plasma/Melta/(and Storm for us) has kind of taken the drivers seat over Las/Missile/Lance etc. Now their is much more incentive to stick that 36 to 48" weapon in your squad. Its a little hokey on the "realism" factor but I do like what it does for the game mechanics.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Eh....wait. Does that mean that when I have a squad of 4 normal Destroyers and 1 Heavy Destroyer, my normal Destroyers now get to hit everything at 36''?

I really doubt that's what GW was going for.

No. I don't think that is it.

A model must still be able to hit a target with it's weapon range to fire at it.

Say for some reason you have a squad of Guardsmen standing around. You've got a squad of 20 Warriors and a Harbinger of Destruction w/Eldritch Lance. The Warriors materialize just out of reach of most of the squad of Guardsmen but they are all still in reach of only one Guardsman who fell behind. They blast him to hell. He takes a load of wounds. He dies. The rest of the wounds are wasted.

The guy with the Lance can fire 36 inches - and if he does so - hit or miss - all of his Warrior buddies wound's can now apply to the other Guardsmen, even if they are out of reach of the model they are wounding

Sigvatr wrote:Eh....wait. Does that mean that when I have a squad of 4 normal Destroyers and 1 Heavy Destroyer, my normal Destroyers now get to hit everything at 36''?

I really doubt that's what GW was going for.

No, it means that if one a single enemy model is within range of the normal Destroyers, but the entire enemy unit is within range of the Heavy Destroyer, then the wounds caused by the normal Destroyers can still be allocated to the rest of the enemy unit, rather than all being forced onto the only model within their actual range. They still have to be able to hit at least one enemy model still within their regular range, though.

Hmm, this doesn't bode well.
Only a matter of time before all manner of abuse is discovered...

I think the major change will be, at least to Necrons, will be that running at least one Royal Court split into your squads will be needed now if you want your infantry to do anything.
Necrons need to dance at that 24" in range unless they plan on wiping the unit they are shooting at out. Having a Destructo-tek in a squad of Immortals will really bump up their kill rates at that 24".
I need to play a few games with this, but I am guessing it will just be a new wrinkle in the game, not a game changer.

For those that are confused about the new shooting rules.

http://www.3plusplus.net/2013/01/kill-zones-40k-shooting-post-faq/

This new faq is a definite nerf to tesla weapons. If you generate additional attacks from Tesla weapons and the range falls short you would not be able to wound with those additional attacks.

 sounddemon wrote:
This new faq is a definite nerf to tesla weapons. If you generate additional attacks from Tesla weapons and the range falls short you would not be able to wound with those additional attacks.

Depends. I can now focus on certain models too by carefully maneuvering around so that only those are in range that you really want to take out - you maximize the wounds to those models.

Sigvatr wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
This new faq is a definite nerf to tesla weapons. If you generate additional attacks from Tesla weapons and the range falls short you would not be able to wound with those additional attacks.

Depends. I can now focus on certain models too by carefully maneuvering around so that only those are in range that you really want to take out - you maximize the wounds to those models.

This. Combined with being able to measure whenever you feel like it, it makes the super-mobile Heavy Destroyers some of the best sniping units in 40k; the only defense is to physically bury your Sergeant into the middle of the unit (which really helps to prevent a model's 2+ save from sheltering an entire unit.)

 Sigvatr wrote:

 sounddemon wrote:
This new faq is a definite nerf to tesla weapons. If you generate additional attacks from Tesla weapons and the range falls short you would not be able to wound with those additional attacks.

Depends. I can now focus on certain models too by carefully maneuvering around so that only those are in range that you really want to take out - you maximize the wounds to those models.

Unless I'm missing something, wounds are still allocated on a closest to furthest basis, so weren't you able to do the same thing that you described by just positioning it so that the models you wanted to kill were closest to you anyways?

Its actually much harder to snipe post FAQ. Prior to the ruling, you could argue that only certain models were even potential casualties, now you can more easily put a wound on a model of similar distance or if equally distant the owning player chooses. Not to mention that using LoS has always allowed wounds to go to modes out of LOS and range.

I'm still a bit new but from all the games I've never really had any situations come up that this new FAQ ruling would change much at all. I can think of a few minor situations but if anyone can extrapolate on how this could really "shake things up" then it'd be much appreciated.

Budikah wrote:I'm still a bit new but from all the games I've never really had any situations come up that this new FAQ ruling would change much at all. I can think of a few minor situations but if anyone can extrapolate on how this could really "shake things up" then it'd be much appreciated.

I'm afraid I can't. This FAQ generally didn't change anything for most Necron players; the most sensible RAI interpretations were almost uniformly answered to be concordant with RAW.

So after reading that 3plusplus article, would I be correct in assuming that adding multiple Despair-teks to my Death & Despair squads, instead of just the one, would be a very good idea?

Let's say you're playing 4x Overlords in a double force org 2000 point game.
You've got four separate Royal Courts, meaning it's possible to attach up to 4 Despair-teks to your Deathmark squads.
Turn two comes around, your Nightscythes fly in, dropping your D&D squad off in front of a group of 10 Terminators.
The way you've positioned your Despair-teks only allows three of the Termies to be covered by the flame template.
But you've got, let's say, 4 Despair-teks in the squad, so those three Termies get covered by the templates four times for a total of 12 hits.
As they'll be wounding on a 2+, let's say they end up doing 9 wounds.
NORMALLY, because there were only three Termies in range of the flame templates, all 9 wounds would only be able to allocated to them.
BUT, as per this FAQ, because the Deathmarks have 24" range, now all 9 wounds caused by the Despair-teks can be allocated to the entire unit of Terminators.
...
right?

skoffs wrote:So after reading that 3plusplus article, would I be correct in assuming that adding multiple Despair-teks to my Death & Despair squads, instead of just the one, would be a very good idea?

Let's say you're playing 4x Overlords in a double force org 2000 point game.
You've got four separate Royal Courts, meaning it's possible to attach up to 4 Despair-teks to your Deathmark squads.
Turn two comes around, your Nightscythes fly in, dropping your D&D squad off in front of a group of 10 Terminators.
The way you've positioned your Despair-teks only allows three of the Termies to be covered by the flame template.
But you've got, let's say, 4 Despair-teks in the squad, so those three Termies get covered by the templates four times for a total of 12 hits.
As they'll be wounding on a 2+, let's say they end up doing 9 wounds.
NORMALLY, because there were only three Termies in range of the flame templates, all 9 wounds would only be able to allocated to them.
BUT, as per this FAQ, because the Deathmarks have 24" range, now all 9 wounds caused by the Despair-teks can be allocated to the entire unit of Terminators.
...
right?

Correct.

Excellent.
*amends army lists accordingly*

There is just so much better cheese you can pull off with a double FOC, than wasting points on RCs, IMO.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
There is just so much better cheese you can pull off with a double FOC, than wasting points on RCs, IMO.

Yea like 4 destroyer lords kitted out...

Tomb King wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
There is just so much better cheese you can pull off with a double FOC, than wasting points on RCs, IMO.

Yea like 4 destroyer lords kitted out...

As scary as that is, it's also going to cost you close to 700 points.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Tomb King wrote:

 NecronLord3 wrote:
There is just so much better cheese you can pull off with a double FOC, than wasting points on RCs, IMO.

Yea like 4 destroyer lords kitted out...

As scary as that is, it's also going to cost you close to 700 points.

I'm sure I've got to find more opponents eventually - but my decked out Destroyer Lord has always claimed his points and more. He's such a mobile threat to just about anything. Fancy tank? Hit it with your stick. Fancy man with a hat? Challenge him, have him slap himself, and then hit him with your stick.

His high toughness and overall maneuverability really make him a force to be reckoned with. I guess four of them would be too much though. You'd get more benefit at that point from tossing a RC in the mix.

I always try to have at least one Royal Court available to me.
They're just too handy to avoid.
I don't usually play double force org games, but when I have, I've run two of each (2x Destroyer Lords, 2x Overlord level HQ).
Seems to serve me well enough, but I do think I'd like to experiment with this new kill zone FAQ update for a bit, just to see what it can do.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
There is just so much better cheese you can pull off with a double FOC, than wasting points on RCs, IMO.

Hmmm...

Trazyn
DLord
Nemesor
Stormtek (Lightning)
Stormtek (Lightning)
Stormtek (Lightning)
8xSword and Board LG
NightScythe
(Plus Olord elsewhere)
Sure, it's like 1000+ Points...but man, would be fun to play with. Enough Anti-Tank to taint punch anything, resilient as nails with the 9 S/B LG+Res Orb, no-one will want to assault you with the 3X Lightning, Nemesor to give you Stealth/FC/CA as needed... Delicious. Oh, yeah, and Preferred Enemy from the DLord just for funsies...and it scores and laughs at Hordes because of Mr. Infinite. Sounds like fun.

How do Necrons handle CSM? I saw a necron list get absolutely obliterated by a CSM list that was allied with IG. It had a helldrake, a vendetta, aegis defense line. Had a Khrone lord on bike with axe of biting fury, cheap cultiests and IG troops and command squad. And it had 2 vindicators, 1 autocannon havoc squad and a leman Russ to boot.

That CSM list literally tabled the necron army it faced. Wraiths got shot to bits before they even reached him (not that they would have done very well against that Khorne lord). And any troops and vehicles got pie plated or shot to death. The fliers were killed by the Aegis and the vendetta, and the helldrake burned up anything that was left on the ground.

... well, what exactly did the Necron player have?

The usual. Wraiths, Zandrek special charecter necron lord, 2 nightscythes, necron warriors, 1 squad of immortals, annihilation barges, and 1 forge world tomb spider (tomb scorpian?). I believe there was a catacomb command barge with a generic necron lord in there too.

Wraiths got shot to bits before they even reached him (not that they would have done very well against that Khorne lord).

1. If the Wraiths were "trying to reach him" against CSM he was doing it wrong. Definitly an army you would want to hide your Wraiths against and counter assault the Lord or any other CC element with.

2. Pretty sure Wraiths would do just fine against a bike lord. They should strike first and that T5 and 3+ will only hold out so long against S6 and rending. And if the bike lord doesn't double T (which most versions I see have the axe and don't), then the Wraiths could hang a couple rounds even if they have trouble killing him.