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So i was playing a game the other day and the guy i was playing against was using space marines. Of course there is no problem there however i was a little confused and didnt exactly think it was fair the way he used his drop pods.

I was playing chaos and using a defiler, and he dropped his drop pod right in front of it, once again not against the rules, no problem, the issue i had is that he didnt open the doors on the drop pod, saying that with the true line of sight rules my defiler couldnt see most of his units due to the drop pod being literally right in his way and having all the doors shut, but he could still shoot with the drop pod to my units. My argument was that if the doors are closed on the drop pod and my defiler cant see to shoot his units because the doors are closed, his drop pod cant see to shoot my units for the same reason being that the weapon is suspended INSIDE the drop pod. I let it go and finished the game barely losing (he took the objective inside a rhino and drove off with it, my 1000 sons where too slow to catch it and ahriman didnt bust the rhino on the last turn... literally lost by one die roll but oh well the rhino and 2 SM's where all he had left) But it still bothers me, in my opinion if i cant see you because of closed doors you cant see me either. it wouldn't have even been that big a deal to me, but he had 6 drop pods with all there doors closed and still shooting at me. I didnt feel like making a fuss so i just let it go but im just interested to see your thoughts on this and how you would have had it play out.

If he wanted to rule Line of sight blocked from doors then that should apply all the way around Him and you. On a rhino, another transport, you draw line of sight and measure from the guns same applies to a drop pod.

wizardofgore wrote:
If he wanted to rule Line of sight blocked from doors then that should apply all the way around Him and you. On a rhino, another transport, you draw line of sight and measure from the guns same applies to a drop pod.

so i was correct? with the door shut and the weapon being inside the drop pod he cant see to shoot me either right?

Can you draw los from the gun to the target? The rules are clear that the hull of a vehicle can block the los of a weapon so if the doors are shut no way it can shoot.

There are a few earlier posts on similar questions that might help

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/359938.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/415561.page
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/318120.page

I didn't notice anything in the SM faq, but there might be something in the INAT

Its been widely covered in older posts. The doors are always considered to be open and you can draw line of sight through a drop pod. It does however, provide cover. The doors are always assumed to be open.

gannam wrote:
Its been widely covered in older posts. The doors are always considered to be open and you can draw line of sight through a drop pod. It does however, provide cover. The doors are always assumed to be open.

This is not true. nowhere in the rules does anything like this appear.

The rules use TLOS. If you can draw LoS you can shoot it. if you can not then you can not shoot it. it is that simple.

P.S. no changing the drop pod doors configuration midgame to suit your needs.

I'm going to piggyback on your post here, is there any rule somewhere that says you're required to open the doors on the drop pod when it comes down? Is it always assumed to be open? Can you leave them closed to block LOS to things?

Had this situation come up just a few hours ago, I dropped in a drop pod but the door couldn't open without cracking them down on top of models, so we just agreed to assume that they were open and anything could shoot through them if they wanted.

I always assumed that the doors opened, as they're used to drop units onto the field... How can the units inside, or the weapon inside, shoot (or the units leave) if the doors didnt go down?

Then again, idk if space marines can get plain drop pods that dont carry anything..

Well, the "fluff" states that the doors are blasted open and you have to disembark. It fails to mention if the doors can re-close after you've done so though.

Many tournament FAQs rule that doors should always be treated as open though.

 Locclo wrote:
I'm going to piggyback on your post here, is there any rule somewhere that says you're required to open the doors on the drop pod when it comes down? Is it always assumed to be open? Can you leave them closed to block LOS to things?

Had this situation come up just a few hours ago, I dropped in a drop pod but the door couldn't open without cracking them down on top of models, so we just agreed to assume that they were open and anything could shoot through them if they wanted.

There is no requirement to open the doors to disembark the models transported within.

This is the same as every other vehicle.

For some reason its been removed from the new FAQ's, but it was in the old ones. I will try and see if I can find a copy of the old FAQ



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:

gannam wrote:
Its been widely covered in older posts. The doors are always considered to be open and you can draw line of sight through a drop pod. It does however, provide cover. The doors are always assumed to be open.

This is not true. nowhere in the rules does anything like this appear.

The rules use TLOS. If you can draw LoS you can shoot it. if you can not then you can not shoot it. it is that simple.

P.S. no changing the drop pod doors configuration midgame to suit your needs.

I found the old fith edition FAQ on this that answered the question

Q: When I deploy from a Drop Pod, do I measure the disembarkation area from the openable door-flaps or from the hull of the Drop Pod?

A: From the Hull of the Drop Pod itself. The opening doors are a cool model feature and don't impact on game play.

"The opening doors are a cool model feature and don't impact on game play."

Which is the same as every other vehicle...

So since the vehcile is open topped, and the doors don't affect game play ie "line of sight" then you target a vehicle through a drop pod but it would give cover, which is what people have been telling him all along.

That is correct I dont even put the interior into my pods. It makes no difference to the game. If he is really pulling the door shut game then some one in aurthority at your club needs to tell him no or just to get lost. Its pretty bad sportsmanship and rule bending to the extreme

Per the Codex,

"Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal"

note the word MUST. There is no gray area in this. Once the drop pod lands, the doors open and you must disembark. You cannot keep the doors closed.

Also,

"Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped." if that helps any on LoS?

Rorschach9 wrote:
Per the Codex,

"Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal"

note the word MUST. There is no gray area in this. Once the drop pod lands, the doors open and you must disembark. You cannot keep the doors closed.

Also,

"Once deployed the Drop Pod is no longer a sealed environment and is therefore counted as being open-topped." if that helps any on LoS?

Please explain how the hatches are "blown open" in the real world (not the game world). Also what happens if the doors are glued shut? Do I have to smash my DP to pieces to get the doors opened?

The rules never say that the doors must be opened, however, certain tournaments may rule that they either open or are treated as opened. If they are not opened, then they block LOS as normal whihc can hinder the weapon inside, and can allow units to claim cover. It is not legal to allow your army to draw LOS through it, but not mine.

"Hatches are blown" is fluff. We know that because drop pod models do not come with explosives.
The must is attached to disembark, not the doors. There is no rule requiring the doors to open.

Ad open topped has nothing to do with tracing LoS through a model.

So explain to me how the unit deploys through closed doors? the rules say the unit must deploy so the doors MUST open

 bcaman wrote:
So explain to me how the unit deploys through closed doors? the rules say the unit must deploy so the doors MUST open

Same way a unit disembarks any vehicle. By placing the models so they are fully within 6" of an access point.

 bcaman wrote:
So explain to me how the unit deploys through closed doors? the rules say the unit must deploy so the doors MUST open

My Landraider doors are glued shut. Am I disallowed from disembarking from a Landraider?

 bcaman wrote:
So explain to me how the unit deploys through closed doors? the rules say the unit must deploy so the doors MUST open

The doors don't open on my chimera. No idea how they get out.
Physically opening the doors isn't necessary. It's only fluff that says the doors actually open.
I admit I'm disappointed that the doors on the model don't 'blow open', would make the models more interesting.

I always play as if you can't draw LoS though the hull the DP. Sure if the doors are open, you can see though it and you want to take the shot, I'd ask to rock a 4+ (5+ at worse) for it. But I'd never shoot though one myself.

 Guilldog wrote:
So i was playing a game the other day and the guy i was playing against was using space marines. Of course there is no problem there however i was a little confused and didnt exactly think it was fair the way he used his drop pods.

I was playing chaos and using a defiler, and he dropped his drop pod right in front of it, once again not against the rules, no problem, the issue i had is that he didnt open the doors on the drop pod, saying that with the true line of sight rules my defiler couldnt see most of his units due to the drop pod being literally right in his way and having all the doors shut, but he could still shoot with the drop pod to my units. My argument was that if the doors are closed on the drop pod and my defiler cant see to shoot his units because the doors are closed, his drop pod cant see to shoot my units for the same reason being that the weapon is suspended INSIDE the drop pod. I let it go and finished the game barely losing (he took the objective inside a rhino and drove off with it, my 1000 sons where too slow to catch it and ahriman didnt bust the rhino on the last turn... literally lost by one die roll but oh well the rhino and 2 SM's where all he had left) But it still bothers me, in my opinion if i cant see you because of closed doors you cant see me either. it wouldn't have even been that big a deal to me, but he had 6 drop pods with all there doors closed and still shooting at me. I didnt feel like making a fuss so i just let it go but im just interested to see your thoughts on this and how you would have had it play out.

As far as I’m concerned. The doors open automatically when the pod lands. I haven’t read anyone else’s posts (because I’m lazy) However, if your opponent disagrees, either:
Pack up your stuff & leave, or:
beat him senseless with your model case & claim a victory on them grounds.... Your playing Chaos after all!

 grendel083 wrote:

 bcaman wrote:
So explain to me how the unit deploys through closed doors? the rules say the unit must deploy so the doors MUST open

The doors don't open on my chimera. No idea how they get out.
Physically opening the doors isn't necessary. It's only fluff that says the doors actually open.
I admit I'm disappointed that the doors on the model don't 'blow open', would make the models more interesting.

I am so tempted to make a spring loaded drop pod. Button on the base, it triggers, pop, down come the doors.

Happyjew wrote:
Please explain how the hatches are "blown open" in the real world (not the game world). Also what happens if the doors are glued shut? Do I have to smash my DP to pieces to get the doors opened?

The rules never say that the doors must be opened, however, certain tournaments may rule that they either open or are treated as opened. If they are not opened, then they block LOS as normal whihc can hinder the weapon inside, and can allow units to claim cover. It is not legal to allow your army to draw LOS through it, but not mine.

Who cares about the real world? This is a game. If the doors are glued shut (as are mine), you treat them as opened. You don't HAVE to have them opened on the model to treat them as opened unless you're completely anal and have zero imagination.

Besides, a drop pod also says it carries 12 models. You can't fit 12 models inside it. Again, it's a game.

When the drop pod hits, the doors are opened and units must disembark.

rigeld2 wrote:"Hatches are blown" is fluff. We know that because drop pod models do not come with explosives.
The must is attached to disembark, not the doors. There is no rule requiring the doors to open.
.

Happyjew wrote:

 bcaman wrote:
So explain to me how the unit deploys through closed doors? the rules say the unit must deploy so the doors MUST open

Same way a unit disembarks any vehicle. By placing the models so they are fully within 6" of an access point.

But they must disembark through access points. In this case, the doors of the drop pod. Therefore the doors must open. Unless somehow your marines can go through closed doors somehow?

Drop pods provide cover, but they do not block LOS. The doors are always open (if your model doesn't open, as mine don't, they are considered open anyway).

PS : "Hatches are blown" is a fancy way of saying "Hatches are opened". It does not mean they are "blown off" or "exploded" or anything like that.

Happyjew has the rules correct. It's true LOS, and if the doors are glued shut, it blocks LOS, to its own gun as well as everyone else. Most transport models have doors and hatches which are usually glued shut as well.

That being said, whether the doors have to open or should be treated as open when it's down is something a TO or FAQ may address, so it's worth checking into if you're going to attend a competitive event.

Well then I guess anyone with drop pods who's doors are glued shut can NEVER disembark as you cannot move through a solid object.

Rorschach9 wrote:
Well then I guess anyone with drop pods who's doors are glued shut can NEVER disembark as you cannot move through a solid object.

Just like rhinos and razorbacks.

I think not lettting someone shoot the storm bolter or deathwind launcher is punishment enough for gluing the doors shut. They cannot draw los through the pod too so it's all the same really.

Rorschach9 wrote:
Well then I guess anyone with drop pods who's doors are glued shut can NEVER disembark as you cannot move through a solid object.

And Land Raiders.
And Rhinos.
And Razorbacks.
And Chimeras.
And Vendettas.
And Valkyries.
And Storm Ravens.

Need I go on?