Drop pod doors?

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**rigeld2**

jakingo wrote:
1) NOT ALL DOORS MUST BE OPEN, but as i understand the drop pod is a vehicle that you must disembark once he enters the game, so by this standards you should at least open a door so you troops can disembark as is the purpose of this particular vehicle (then again this was in 5th edition), getting cowardly in fear in your drop pod doesn't seem like a courageous choice or a smart one.

You don't have to open a door to disembark. Or do you require literally every transport in the game to also have an openable door?

2) THE DROP POD DO NOT POSSES ANY FIRE POINT and you can also check this out if you look at the mini, son if for some reason you dont want to disembark your troops im pretty sure you can't shoot from inside a closed sealed capsule IS JUST COMMON SENSE,

By definition an open-topped vehicle is a non-specific firing point.

**Guilldog**

Klueless wrote:
Guilldog wrote:
So i was playing a game the other day and the guy i was playing against was using space marines. Of course there is no problem there however i was a little confused and didnt exactly think it was fair the way he used his drop pods.

I was playing chaos and using a defiler, and he dropped his drop pod right in front of it, once again not against the rules, no problem, the issue i had is that he didnt open the doors on the drop pod, saying that with the true line of sight rules my defiler couldnt see most of his units due to the drop pod being literally right in his way and having all the doors shut, but he could still shoot with the drop pod to my units. My argument was that if the doors are closed on the drop pod and my defiler cant see to shoot his units because the doors are closed, his drop pod cant see to shoot my units for the same reason being that the weapon is suspended INSIDE the drop pod. I let it go and finished the game barely losing (he took the objective inside a rhino and drove off with it, my 1000 sons where too slow to catch it and ahriman didnt bust the rhino on the last turn... literally lost by one die roll but oh well the rhino and 2 SM's where all he had left) But it still bothers me, in my opinion if i cant see you because of closed doors you cant see me either. it wouldn't have even been that big a deal to me, but he had 6 drop pods with all there doors closed and still shooting at me. I didnt feel like making a fuss so i just let it go but im just interested to see your thoughts on this and how you would have had it play out.

As far as I’m concerned. The doors open automatically when the pod lands. I haven’t read anyone else’s posts (because I’m lazy) However, if your opponent disagrees, either:
Pack up your stuff & leave, or:
beat him senseless with your model case & claim a victory on them grounds.... Your playing Chaos after all!

I like your style lol

Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:
jakingo wrote:
1) NOT ALL DOORS MUST BE OPEN, but as i understand the drop pod is a vehicle that you must disembark once he enters the game, so by this standards you should at least open a door so you troops can disembark as is the purpose of this particular vehicle (then again this was in 5th edition), getting cowardly in fear in your drop pod doesn't seem like a courageous choice or a smart one.

You don't have to open a door to disembark. Or do you require literally every transport in the game to also have an openable door?

2) THE DROP POD DO NOT POSSES ANY FIRE POINT and you can also check this out if you look at the mini, son if for some reason you dont want to disembark your troops im pretty sure you can't shoot from inside a closed sealed capsule IS JUST COMMON SENSE,

By definition an open-topped vehicle is a non-specific firing point.

Thats was the other players arguement, was that it has no specific firing point so it could shoot with the doors closed
i said if the doors are closed its not opened topped,
he said rules say doors dont have to be open for it to shoot
i said just cause you can see the bolter doesnt mean its out side the deathwind is inside so i assume the bolter is too
then he said nope doesnt say so in the rules....

got tired of arguing and just continued to play.

we pretty much went over the same stuff you guys are talking about here, and we talked about it after the fact and agreed that when the DP drops
the doors are blow, SM's flood out and you can see through them and they provide a 5+ cover save.

**LazzurusMan**

It's simple. The doors block line of sight so you can't shoot through it or out of it, but the guys inside must disembark, the doors don't physically have to open, but the models must disembark.

If your doors are glued shut, either accept that you can't shoot and it blocks all line of sight, or say that it give a 4+ cover save, DONE.

I know others have said this, but no one seems to be getting it!

**Somedude593**

^ this ....

**Guilldog**

LazzurusMan wrote:
It's simple. The doors block line of sight so you can't shoot through it or out of it, but the guys inside must disembark, the doors don't physically have to open, but the models must disembark.

If your doors are glued shut, either accept that you can't shoot and it blocks all line of sight, or say that it give a 4+ cover save, DONE.

I know others have said this, but no one seems to be getting it!

pretty much the idea bro

**liturgies of blood**

Why are people talking about fire points? There is nobody onboard and you use the normal rules for vehicle weapons which is to draw los to the target.

**Frecklesonfire**

Why has this gone on for so long the rules clearly say, when the drop pod deepstrikes the drop pod doors hatches explode off. There is no, ' oh i didn't open them ' or whatever. Its a simple rule, read your dam codex you cheating ultramarines douche!

**DeathReaper**

Frecklesonfire wrote:
Why has this gone on for so long the rules clearly say, when the drop pod deepstrikes the drop pod doors hatches explode off. There is no, ' oh i didn't open them ' or whatever. Its a simple rule, read your dam codex you cheating ultramarines douche!

1) Please do not break forum rules.

2) "the drop pod doors hatches explode off." is fluff and not actual rules.

Provide some actual rules if you think otherwise please.

**Mannahnin**

Frecklesonfire wrote:
Why has this gone on for so long the rules clearly say, when the drop pod deepstrikes the drop pod doors hatches explode off. There is no, ' oh i didn't open them ' or whatever. Its a simple rule, read your dam codex you cheating ultramarines douche!

There are a few mistakes here. One is getting rude, which is a violation of the rules you agreed to abide by in return for being permitted to post.
Two is assuming that everyone plays it the same way you do, when a lot of folks (for aesthetics, for convenience not having to deal with the doors flopping all over the place, or just laziness to not have to paint the interior) do glue the doors up for one reason or another.
The third is assuming that folks argue a point here because that's the way they play in real life, and they're arguing for personal advantage.

Remember this forum is here to help us understand the rules, and folks will often discuss the strict RAW of how they understand the rule to work, even if they'd be more flexible and open to "what feels right" at the table with a live opponent. Most people aren't douches or trying to cheat. Mostly they're reasonable people who like discussing the rules and are perfectly nice in reality, even if they happen to disagree with you.

**insaniak**

Guilldog wrote:
Thats was the other players arguement, was that it has no specific firing point so it could shoot with the doors closed

Fire Points aren't used for the vehicle firing its own weapons. If it can't draw LOS from the weapon, it can't shoot.

i said if the doors are closed its not opened topped,

There are no rules to support this, though. The vehicle is open-topped because the rules say it is open topped. Nothing says the doors have to physically be open for this rule to apply.

he said rules say doors dont have to be open for it to shoot

The rules say no such thing. The doors dont have to be open, but the weapon needs LOS to shoot.

**SgtSixkilla**

Treat drop pod doors as you do daemon prince wings etc. For game mechanic purposes, ignore them. When a drop pod lands, it's doors are blown open. Only due to a malfunction would a drop pod's doors not open. It's automatic when it lands. It's like in melee, you can't choose that one model doesn't hit, just so you won't get stuck in the open on your opponent's turn. You have to hit with all the models. You can't choose to have some of the drop pod doors not open, just so you can deny LOS to the disembarking models from behind.

Claiming otherwise is twisting game rules to give you an advantage, and makes you look like TFG.

**rigeld2**

SgtSixkilla wrote:
Treat drop pod doors as you do daemon prince wings etc. For game mechanic purposes, ignore them. When a drop pod lands, it's doors are blown open. Only due to a malfunction would a drop pod's doors not open. It's automatic when it lands. It's like in melee, you can't choose that one model doesn't hit, just so you won't get stuck in the open on your opponent's turn. You have to hit with all the models. You can't choose to have some of the drop pod doors not open, just so you can deny LOS to the disembarking models from behind.

Claiming otherwise is twisting game rules to give you an advantage, and makes you look like TFG.

Again, cite actual rules please. What people keep quoting is a fluff statement.

**Happyjew**

SgtSixkilla wrote:
Treat drop pod doors as you do daemon prince wings etc. For game mechanic purposes, ignore them.

Unless I missed something, DP Wings still block LOS. THey re only ignored for drawing LOS to the DP.

**DeathReaper**

Happyjew wrote:
SgtSixkilla wrote:
Treat drop pod doors as you do daemon prince wings etc. For game mechanic purposes, ignore them.

Unless I missed something, DP Wings still block LOS. THey re only ignored for drawing LOS to the DP.

you are correct Happyjew.

The DP wings block Line of Sight to models behind the DP, but they are ignored for drawing Line of Sight to the DP.

**Monster Rain**

I glue my Drop Pods shut, because the doors can be a pain in the ass at best and damage models at worst.

We play it as has been stated above, as being considered open and being able to draw LOS through and providing cover, and it has never been a problem. This is just something that should be covered by a TO or a house rule.

Mannahnin wrote:
...a lot of folks (for aesthetics, for convenience not having to deal with the doors flopping all over the place, or just laziness to not have to paint the interior) do glue the doors up for one reason or another.

Or in my case, all three!

**White Ninja**

rigeld2 wrote:
Rorschach9 wrote:
Well then I guess anyone with drop pods who's doors are glued shut can NEVER disembark as you cannot move through a solid object.

And Land Raiders.
And Rhinos.
And Razorbacks.
And Chimeras.
And Vendettas.
And Valkyries.
And Storm Ravens.

Need I go on?

Actually the vendetta can be made to have all of its hatches open if fact the way the kit has you build it does just that so the door guns can be seen. But back to the original question the guy was being a jerk. It is one thing to try the cheese of saying the door close again which they should not. It is another to claim he still gets to shoot when he cannot see with the gun because of his earlier cheese. Either way he was still a jerk.

**barnowl**

Rythem wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
The doors can move when put together correctly.

The BRB does not specify open or closed, so however you model it is how it interacts with TLoS.

Call MFA all you like, but it is not likely to fly with many people if the doors are glued shut.

barnowl wrote:
I would play them as down either way personally, but Reaper has solid solution to the issue. If opponent wants to play doors block LOS then they block LOS for everybody including the weapon in the DP.

As the rules dictate, always use TLoS, so if ythey are up nothing, including the gun inside, can see through the pod.

So we don't have to build our models following the directions anymore? That is really good to hear because I have many ideas for the way my models should look to give me all kinds of advantages.

Barnowl: the only problem with that solution is that if i glue the doors up i lose a 3 point storm bolter that i can't fire, but now block all line of sight to my 125 point dreadnought that just came out of it. In no way is that a fair trade, the fair way to play it is as intended, the doors open but you gain a cover save on the model that comes out for firing through an intervening model.

It is also blocking all LOS from that Dreadnaught to anything on my side of it, so end of the day, I come off the hair better. Also if you drop it in front of my lines, I get free LOS blocking cover to protect me from the rest of your army. Behind my line, not really a big deal, a sI just have to move to fire at you if you did not move for debark for a fire lane on me, giving me first shot at you.

**nolzur**

DeathReaper wrote:
Except that the rules only require the models to disembark within 6 inches of an access point.

You keep repeating this, but it is blatantly wrong.

Reread the rule please, and stop telling people the 5th edition rule for disembark.

pg 79 BYB:
"When a unit disembarks, place the models one at a time, using the following method: place the first model in base contact with one of the vehicles Access Points. If the model cannot be placed in base contact with the Access Point due to the vehicle's flying base, place it so its body is in contact with the Access Point. In either case, a disembarking model's base cannot be placed within 1" of an enemy model or within impassable terrain. The model can then make a noamrl move - Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should be taken as normal, but it must end it's move wholly within 6" of the Access Point it disembarked from (we assume that any distance that is lost because of this has been used getting out of the Transport). Repeat this process for each model in the unit. At the end of the unit's move, all models must be in unit coherency."

TLDR:
You must disembark within 1" of the access point, and can then move out to a max of 6" away, you cannot simply place 6" away. There is a very big difference in game play between the two. You method, it is very hard to stop people disembarking. Actual game method, it is fairly simple to stop someone disembarking.

**DeathReaper**

It is the same thing, as long as there are no enemy models close by.

P.S. Disembarking within 6 inches of an access point was not how it worked in 5th...

**nolzur**

DeathReaper wrote:
It is the same thing, as long as there are no enemy models close by.

So, what you are saying is, that it is not, in fact, the same thing?

DeathReaper wrote:
P.S. Disembarking within 6 inches of an access point was not how it worked in 5th...

You are right, it was not 6", it was 2". You could only move after disembark if the vehicle did not move.

**Kal-El**

2 things: you mentioned the guy took off with the objective in his rhino? If you we're playing relic I hope he did not move more than 6 inches.

2nd if he wants to glue his doors shut that's fine and dandy, but it will not count as blocking my line of sight in my game. I would give him a 5+. If he demanded that I can't shoot through it I would tell him that's ridiculous because the model is designed to open and is being used in an unfair manner. If he continued his argument I'd call a judge. If it was a friendly games I'd prob just tell him I'm not going to play by that rule because I disagree.

So if I have a flying vehicle and I mount it to the big SM statue I would get to block LoS? I don't think so since you can't bring cover with you, but I have heard of people trying that one as well...kinda the same thing...using models in an unintended and malicious way to gain an advantage over your opponent.

Sorry guys that think it should block LoS. I just don't agree it should.

**rigeld2**

There's a rule against bringing cover with you.
There's a rule about not being able to see through models you can't actually see through.

**DeathReaper**

nolzur wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
It is the same thing, as long as there are no enemy models close by.

So, what you are saying is, that it is not, in fact, the same thing?

Let me clarify:
Not if there are enemies close by, but otherwise it is the same thing.

**Locclo**

DeathReaper wrote:
nolzur wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
It is the same thing, as long as there are no enemy models close by.

So, what you are saying is, that it is not, in fact, the same thing?
Let me clarify:
Not if there are enemies close by, but otherwise it is the same thing.

I will add that it probably does not matter in the case of a Drop Pod. Sure, it's entirely possible to surround a Rhino and stop the models inside from getting out, but that's because you can do that during your movement phase and then break it open in the Shooting/Assault phases. Against an enemy drop pod, if you want to stop a unit from disembarking, your opponent essentially has to deep strike it directly into a circle of units, or miraculously scatter into one.

**Kal-El**

If I recall correctly some time ago there was either a fac or something that said that models could see "through" the drop pod. Back when the SM codex 5th edition released. Seriously though glueing the doors shut so people cant shoot is just wrong IMO.

**FenixZero**

Bausk wrote:
I always play as if you can't draw LoS though the hull the DP. Sure if the doors are open, you can see though it and you want to take the shot, I'd ask to rock a 4+ (5+ at worse) for it. But I'd never shoot though one myself.

At BEST, it is worth 5+ cover save, I argue that the top is 6+, and the bottom half (with the harnesses/weapons) is 5+.

**Bausk**

FenixZero wrote:
Bausk wrote:
I always play as if you can't draw LoS though the hull the DP. Sure if the doors are open, you can see though it and you want to take the shot, I'd ask to rock a 4+ (5+ at worse) for it. But I'd never shoot though one myself.

At BEST, it is worth 5+ cover save, I argue that the top is 6+, and the bottom half (with the harnesses/weapons) is 5+.

My counter claim is we are essentially shooting through the hull of an armour 12 vehicle. Any other example has us firing over, around or under the hull, not though it. As I said I'd typically play it as if the hull was as solid as any other vehicle and shoot around it even if my opponent does not. And would ask, not expect or demand, a 4+ for it. Quite happy to play it as 5+ but I still won't shoot though a drop pod.

6+ really? everything, even squishy grot flesh grants a 5+ and you are somehow possessed with the idea that the top of an AV12 vehicle is somehow less dense? Yeah no, I'd never let anyone take a unit cover save at less than 5+, especially if its from shooting through the hull section of a AV12 vehicle.

**Tyr Grimtooth**

It would be considered as firing through an enemy model and thus give the intedned target a 4+ cover, just as if you were trying to fire at an enemy unit behind another enemy unit.

**rigeld2**

Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
It would be considered as firing through an enemy model and thus give the intedned target a 4+ cover, just as if you were trying to fire at an enemy unit behind another enemy unit.

5+ in 6th edition.

**insaniak**

Kal-El wrote:
If I recall correctly some time ago there was either a fac or something that said that models could see "through" the drop pod. Back when the SM codex 5th edition released.

There has never been any such rule.

You have LOS if you have LOS. There is no rule requiring the doors to be open, just as there is no rule requiring a rhino's doors to be open.