Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Codex Review: Chaos Space Marines 2012

Hi hi, I thought I would do a codex review for the community! It is mostly going to be based around rules as I am no judge of artwork etc.. If this is at all useful to people I can format it a bit better with HQ pages etc and stick it in the article section

Grading:

Casual: an underwhelming or generally lacking option for a competitive environment.
Fair: what is expected a 15pt Plasma gun option for example..
Positive: has a place in casual games and tournaments alike.
Competitive: Very strong options that have a solid place in tournaments.

The Lost and the Damned:
Chaos Space Marines Special Rules:

Champion of Chaos: the key part of this ability is that you can choose who accepts/declines. This makes it less of a nerf than it would otherwise be. If we look at designated combat units how often do they make into combat into a second unit after eating the first one. Therefore, if your unit makes it into combat with 1 unit in the game the roll on the table is useless or atleast trivial.

If you make it into combat with trash then they decline the challenge as they are loosing combat anyway to spite you the roll on the table. However, you can have your aspiring champion take the challenge to stop Abaddon getting held up by one smart alec sergeant.
However, it should be noted that chaos marine units and chosen get the champion for free, terminators pay 3 pts for it, plague marines get it for free, and some of the others such as cultists Khorne Beserkers pay 10pts for it. I would say there has been a strong points decrease.
From a non tournament sense the rule is very fluffy and for the time where you get a deamon prince out of a cultist beating a sergeant to death makes it a positive rule.
The reason this rule has been marked positive is simply because of the point break champions have got from the standard 10pt mark up that most champions seem to get.
Positive

Warlord Traits: as a completely new addition will always give options that make the HQ’s stronger by virtue of gaining options at no cost or loss.. 1 and 3 are particularly strong but situational.. The fact they tie in to Abaddon and Ahriman is useful. I like the way Special Characters have predefined Warlord Traits.
Positive
Deamon Weapons: have got better in that you don’t fear the 1 quite so much, will look at individual weapons in wargear section. Thumbs up to GW for clarifying that you can choose to not attack with it helpful for clarifying Abaddon.
Competitive
Veterans of the Long War:
Amazingly cool, that they have realised how many people were into the Horus Heresy fluff and allow people to have ancient armies, the fact they don’t penalise players by saying they have to pay points for it by making it a universal rule across the book.
Okay it may have modelling implications and I dislike that it encourages metagaming for when you play against your SM buddy. That said the LD boost as well as the Hatred is worth it in some cases.
Also worth noting that whilst SM are the most common army, hatred is only useful in combat whilst if it was PE then you would see it on things like Havocs. Therefore it’s a useful option that is cheaply available whilst being useful for tournament and casual players alike.
Competitive

Marks of chaos: stopping people having Chaos lords of khorne joining Plague Marines is a nice touch one that no one will be really sad about but it’s nice to see fluff getting a token touch in the rules..
Mark Of Khorne: strong as it is basically extra attacks, a slight nerf as you might fail your counterattack occasionally.. I’m sure that Khorne players will cope. At 2pts a model It’s fair but not a steal.. similar price to old codex but the lack of needing an icon makes it a boost..
Positive
Mark of Nurgle: Generally strong as toughness will always come into the equation.. as others have said does make Tallyman shenanigans silly..
Positive (competitive in a tallyman list)
Mark of Tzeentch: no real change though the ability to have storm shields in Tzeentch lords is nice!
Positive
Mark Of Slaanesh:
The one mark that I think has got worse as whilst I5 is very useful to fight before marines is it worth 2pts a model plus. I don’t think so… however, this is compensated by the very strong additions that Slaanesh has got see Icons, psyker powers etc. Therefore I in many ways consider MoS a tax to get these goodies.
Fair

HQ[/u]:
I’ll start with wargear: the presentation of the wargear section is nice with clarification to stop people taking mounted deamon princes while giving a lot of customizing ability.
Special issue:
Blight Grenades, nice that you can give to your HQ.. this allows you to confer stealth to an undivided unit if you really wanted.. I can imagine having a unit of spawn with a bikered lord with blight grenades for stealthed and grenade lead Spawns.. at their price a steal.
Competitive

Chaos Bike: might see less play than it would otherwise have due to the deamonic steeds which are usually just generally better. Nice option to have though.
Casual

Sigil of Corruption: more points than a storm shield.. and if you really want an invul MoT + terminator armour can be just as good.. but nice to have a solid 4+ for non MoT. It’s too many points for me to call it competitive..
Positive

Chaos Icons: all icons have the nice advantage of +1 to Combat Ress but they also can be sniped.. it’s the latter rule that plays a part in all my evaluations.

Icon Of Wrath: allows you to make pseudo berserkers at a fair price.. FC obviously bit the nerf of not effecting Initiative, but the ability to take Icons and Marks does allow you to have cult terminators.. (thumbs up) It is the reroll to charges that makes this competitive for it’s price it means your expensive combat unit doesn’t get stuck in the open when you rolled a 5 for a 7 inch charge.
Competitive
Icon of Flame.. Soul Blaze doesn’t do anything… not even worth it’s points vs. light armoured armies like orks..
Casual
Icon of Despair: not as bad as Icon of Flame but doesn’t do a huge amount… might make a difference occasionally but the most common army being immune doesn’t help. Being minimal points doesn’t help if it still doesn’t do anything..
Casual

Icon of Excess: interesting.. looks at a few concerns: is the cost of the Icon worth a 1/3rd of the unit. If it is then it’s borderline helpful. If it’s a lot less then it’s a no brainer and if it’s more then it’s not worth taking and you’d be better taking extra men and not opening yourself to being sniped, also provides more bolters/sonic blasters.
Therefore I’d say for Noise Marines and LARGE units of Chaos Marines it’s competitive as they are expensive units and it would come into play. For budget units of marines it’s not worth it.
Finally.. I feel that MoS being 2pts Plus is only because it’s a perquisite for this icon and would in many ways consider MoS a tax.. so if you have a 20 man Unit the cost of the icon is minimal but bare in mind you are paying 40pts for a weak mark…
Noise Marines: competitive
Terminators: depending on set up competitive/casual (makes more use of it being 1 wound than paladins who should never have apothecaries)
Standard Marines: unless a 15-20 man unit who just want staying power: casual

Icon of Vengeance: a lot of points but not requiring a mark makes it cheaper in principle. As fearless has become so good..
Competitive

Chaos Rewards:
Aura of Dark Glory
Pay the points for terminator amour… okay if you are mounted it would normally be on a steed and you have extra wounds… only really considerable for a winged lord and then you might consider the 10pts more for a 4+
Casual

Combat Familiar: on a deamon prince you get 2 str 4 ap 2 attacks which if you opt to smash attack becomes str 8.. the idea of a familiar wrecking a vehicle is funny... on anyone not a monster it's par.. maybe if you regularly fight orks or wyches or something.. For it's points don't take on anything other than a prince of darkness and even on the DP it's optional and hardly a must take. For a 3rd of it's points it would be playable.
Casual

Gift of mutation: the table is fickle.. 10pts for something that 1/6th of the game doesn’t do anything.. 5/6th of the time it does something MINIMAL.. The only results that will make a difference are the ones that give a special rule which could benefit a large squad.
Casual: in most armies
Positive: In armies revolving around boons, with Dark Apostles etc

Ichor Blood:
Doesn’t do anything.. unless you are deamon prince and it becomes ap2.. funny but mostly casual.
Deamon Prince: positive
Anyone else: casual

Spell Familiar: very useful counter to most psy defense (runes of warding, PotW etc..)
A fair amount of points however,
positive

Deamonic Steeds:
Juggernaut of Khorne: cavalry rocks.. fleet, 12 inch movement, hammer of wrath you name it, when you throw in all the goodies the juggernaut gives you namely the wound! Then why would you ever not pay the points for this over a bike..
Competitive
Disc: generally mixed, Tzeentch psykers are poor sadly.. and there’s no obvious place for this guy.. Not bad.. but not convinced it’s worth the points over a standard bike
Casual
Palanquin of Nurgle: The wound boost is very good and they didn’t give out S&P, admittedly it’s the only one that doesn’t speed you up, but it does give the option to have a T5 character with 5 wounds stand at the front of a unit to take hits.. at it’s price range it’s not quite competitive but not a bad choice real shame you can’t get a 2+ save otherwise you’d have a very solid chap to stand at the front and take small arms..
Positive

Chaos Artifacts:
Axe of Blind Fury: provides attacks, strength and ap2, things that are not always available but pretty much everything you want in a weapon.. being blind you don’t really care.. A strong if pricy reason to go khorne
Competitive

The Black mace: It’s like what you always wanted Trazyn the Infinite to be.. but wasn’t, the whole AP4 thing is the issue.. fortunately if you’re a daemon prince it becomes ap2 and helps out with that lack of attacks you have being a daemon weapon and all..
Deamon Prince: competitive
Anyone else: casual

Burning Brand of Skalathrax: What can I say.. this thing will be in every chaos list ever made.. a handheld hellhound that’s ap3… that’s silly.. Throw in that you can have it deepstruck in via terminator armour it’s very very strong. The points are very cheap for what it does.. I sat there looking for the mark requirement or the one use only bit and couldn't find it!
Very Competitive

Dimensional Key
Interesting idea.. but doesn't quite work, the codex requirement meaning it doesn't help daemons and the fact that reserves usually come in turn 2.. so your not going to be in combat before your reserves come in. The terrain stuff is interesting maybe in a necron difficult terrain list it could have a place..
Casual

Murder Sword
Could have a place for dealing with big threats.. maybe pull it out in an apocalypse game but that many points for most of the time a power sword.. no thanks
Casual

Scrolls of Magnus
Definitely an interesting option, does a lot and doesn't kill you too much.. If only sorcerers were 3 wounds.. the problem I see is that if you get unlucky and wound yourself on the first use.. you only have 1 wound left so your never going to use it again.. perhaps if you had a lvl 3 tzeentch sorcerer in terminator armour for a 4++. It is a lot of points however.
Casual

Actual Units now!

Sorcerer: very strong choice, having very cheap psyker levels going up to lvl 3 without being Tzeentchian... able to take wargear options too, starts of cheap and pretty much exactly what you want for a sorcerer. Only grump being the exorbitant pricing for Mark of Slaanesh but being the best lore I can see why..

I can see people using 2 lvl 3 undivided for telepathy or telekinetic lores etc.

Being 2 wounds changes things a little, as if they were 3 I'd consider using them in terminator armour to shield units stand at the front and give your marine unit 2+ saves but with 2 wounds best to keep them cheap. I'd consider using one with the hellhound in a bottle though if you had focused on non witchfire diciplines.

Very Competitive

Chaos Lord: Not a huge amount to say, an honest psychopathic killer for an honest price that does what you want.. the master of traitors rule makes him competitive in some builds. Lots of wargear options: competitive based on what his wargear is..
positive/competitive.

Daemon Prince: His new pricing is his issue, his new stats are nice but loosing EW whilst not normally an issue how many rail guns do you see it does mean he runs away from Grey Knights which is just sad. However, there are a lot of wargear options that he can make a lot of use with.. and having a monstrous creature with a deamon weapon rocks.. You get what you pay for, an honest daemon for a fair but not great price. His main issue is the lack of any way of dealing with flyers apart from vector striking them..

I suppose I can be fair to him and point out that as additions to attacks happen after the halving in a smash attacks, deamon weapons mean you have the highest amount of strength 10 goodness in the game..

Fair

Warpsmith: not bad, and he does things that are new and exciting but I'm not convinced that he does anything that is not situational that you would want for a precious HQ slot.
Casual

Dark Apostle: you want to like him.. he gives the ld boost to all those cultists and all that.. but you do wonder why you don't pay 15pts more and have 2 chaos sorcerers who are ld 10 for 2 units and provide psker support. His rerolling boon ability isn't worth points in anything other than a very specific list.
Casual

Abaddon The Despoiler: okay the Warmarshall.. the man himself. A hefty price tag but he does a lot for it. His First amongst chosen is neat but you will have a tiny army.. but it's a cool option. He can choose between his weapons providing an awesome arsenal of close combat brutality. Sadly.. I feel that his main benefit is a supportive role as he gives you one of the best warlord traits, preferred enemy vs. marines meaning those plasmaguns are rerolling 1's (thumbs up). The only issue I have with him.. is that for combat brutalness for his price I could get a lot of terminators that don't get challenged by a smug if brave sergeant.

Positive

Huron Blackheart: an interesting choice: a prime candidate with Ahriman for alpha legion armies as his warlord trait is the infiltrating goodness. He has a 4++, his weapon is pretty nifty but doesn't deal with 2+, so heing a T4 non eternal warrior chap he'll run like a girl from terminators but aside from that. He does have the only option of divination in the book but can't have it's primaris which is a shame.. he does a lot and he's not a bad option.
Fair

Kharn the Betrayer: he's not bad.. he's slices, dices and carves up the main dish.. he's great on the offence but relies on a 3+, 4++ which means he will inevitably bite powerfists etc. He does hit on a 2, with a str 6, ap 2 power weapon... Not a bad option with his anti psyker defense.. Again, for his points you do get 5 terminators...
Fair

Ahriman: 3 wounds, comes with master of deception and a nifty psyker. Being the only lvl 4 psyker in the game seems fair.. and having the ability to fire 3 witchfires in the game.. his only issue is having to take one from the undefinable lame tzeentch lore! How often are you going to have 3 witchfires that you can fire all at the same unit, as one will inevitably be a template weapon, one 24 inch etc. Not bad though.
Competitive

Typhus: his plague zombies will not see play with Epidemius as they do not actually have MoN :(.. as soon as it gets FAQ'd that you can have more than 10 due to the upgrade lack of confusion. His destroyer hive does let you large blast your own cultists to get the tally up though.. He's a lot of points but 10 zombies holding an objective will never be bad.. shame they can't go to ground. But fearless rocks anyway.

He himself is 4 wounds, a decent psyker and not bad in combat with terminator amour.. an expensive but solid option.
Competitive

Lucius the Eternal: the challenge character, the whole point of having an expensive character is to butcher units.. and he can't even assassinate other hq's without sergeants taking the hits.. he does come with a doom siren which is a redeeming factor for a casual character. Excelling at a sub par mechanic doesn't make him good. Refusing his challenge keeps him strictly ap3 too.
Casual

Fabius Bile: Nice to loose the randomless. He does make units better and doesn't have to pay points to upgrade them. Note: it can be used to buff a Khorne unit which is cute. His main problem is he's a lot of points and the only thing he does himself is provide fearless to a unit. If he was a bit more killy he might be better.
Casual


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Troops

Chaos Space Marines:
The critical part of the book, the standard marine: starting at a ridiculously low price you have the option to just flood the board with power armour bolters and not much else. Depending on whether you want to run or not dictates whether you would swop for combat weapons or take both.. I could imagine MoK units with just combat weapons being cheap and effective.

Wargear is pretty standard and at standard prices. Icons and marks have been discussed earlier. Veterans of the Long War is an option if you want ld 10 or hatred vs Marines at a point a model it's not a bad choice.

Competitive.

Chaos cultists:
Well having the option to have 4pt chaps is a nice addition for your 50pt objective holder... Taking autoguns isn't a bad choice for a point as they are BS3 and therefore can wrack up some kills from the 24 inch mark.. There problem is that even with MoK and combat weapons they won't definitively beat marines in combat and so small points is great but only if you get something from it. Therefore the trick to using them is learning to use them to shield your better units etc. I am sure people will come up with some cool things to do with these guys.. at the moment I am quite liking a unit of them with MoT on a skyshield landing pad for a 3++.. not great and very silly but neat!

----
Cult Troops:

Khorne Berserkers: these lads arn't bad and ws5 makes a ton of difference, they are not an exorbitant amount of points and they do what you want. Sadly, the axes wrack up a lot of points and are situational and don't work vs. MEQ.. The icon makes them a lot better as the reroll to get into combat rocks. They are brutal at shredding lightly armoured units. They do their job very well and fairly the problem is that role is not one you will want/need in every game.
Fair

Thousand Sons: Coming with free veterans of the long war is nice if rarely useful. They do come with a lot going for them, ap 3 bolters and 4+ invulnerable saves is nice. Having to take Tzeentch powers renders the sorcerer limited at best. I'd probably run them in a rhino as they won't be assaulting anyway.. Not unplayable by any means and a good compromise between defense and combat ability. I wouldn't take them as elites but as troops with a sorcerer they have a place.
Positive

Plague Marines: it's hard to really dislike these guys, the ability to take special weapons makes them a good contender for chaos marines. 8 pts more than MoN marines but they do come with FnP, fearless and a load of fair but nothing great equipment. I don't know whether the epidemius players will choose these chaps over the zombie options.. ap2 bolters is always good though!

Noise marines: If you consider them standard marines with MoS and the icon of vengeance then they don't seem so overprices for what they are to start with which is debatable on how good it is. The options however are pretty nice, the anti cover nature of the equipment gives them a role than an edition a go would have made them extremely playable. Now its' less useful as people are daring to break cover a lot more. I feel that if you could take 5 man blastmaster squads they'd have been competitive as it is they are a strong positive.
Positive

Positive


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Elites

Helbrute: crazed is much better than it's old version, the days of shooting at the back of your other vehicles are over. While they do reduce your options in some cases it's positive so not a major issue. The weapon options are par, the scourge isn't a bad choice and does have a 1/3 chance of making marines hit you on 5's.. You can have a combat specialised one, but can't have anything like a rifleman, so it's main issue is that it's a combat choice in a combat army and therefore competing against the new maulerfiends etc. Still a much better option than it used to be. It's worst problem is it's lack of drop pod delivery or anything to make it borderline manoeuvrable!
Positive

Mutilators: Umm so we have an exorbitantly expensive maximum 3 man unit that gets insta deathed. Has a 2, 5++ saved unit that dishes out the pain in combat. well, you can see what they were trying to do. The worst blow to them is that obliterators get power fists.. Marks let you solve some of the problems have T5 to avoid ID and 4++ etc, but nothing saves you from the 3 max unit size.
Casual

Possessed: They do a lot more, and the changing nature of them is a lot more controllable. They however have no qualities that makes you want to not pay 5pts more and take Chaos Terminators. Unless you just really like Rhinos... There point cost is ridiculous for what you get.
Casual

Chosen: Well they start off pretty good, only a few points more than standard marines with combat weapons and bolters and get a free champion. They have the option to take nearly anything but flakk missiles so that's good. While they have good combat options, I feel that the only really competitive way of taking them would be bare bones with mark of Khorne and icon of wrath and skimping on the special combat weapons.. simply cos they start with 15pts and get worse from there.. your looking at doubling the price of the model. With MoK they do have 5 attacks on the charge however.. and at a reasonable price.

Shooting wise: the ability to take all the special weapons you'd ever want is nifty, the main issue is that unlike Sternguard they have no real way of deepstriking they are relying on rhino's for shooting positioning and Landraiders for combat. If you want more special weapons these are your men for the job, all in all I am surprised to rank them as potentially competitive, as they solve a weakness in your armylist easily and at a mostly honest price (as long as you don't touch the likes of powerfists etc.)
Competitive

Terminators: at their price and at the humble 3pts for a champion these are my go to in a chaos elites slot. They can take the combi weapons for 5pts each, but unlike chosen they can deepstrike so you can have pseudo sternguard but then after they have discharged their weapons and destroyed a big tank.. they are in terminator armour! For combat, the special weapons are a lot more considerable if you compare a chosen with a claw to a terminator in a claw the terminator is a point more.. These guys are efficient, get every option so if you really want FnP termies you can... All in all a solid deepstriking option or on foot to give a bit of predictability, uncharacteristically they can do combat and shooting and are not overpriced because of it.
Highly competitive




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Heavy Support:

Havocs went from being the worst devastator equivalent to one of the best, at a basic 13pt base they won't be lacking for their close combat weapons any time, so that saves you 10pts. YOu have the option to take them if you want. *Shrugs* A slightly tweaked weapon choice later, you have flakk missiles that no-one else does and you have 20pt lascannons.. not bad. Heavy bolters being 10pts I feel will deter them being used, but the presence of autocannons in the list will be where it's at as 5 men with 4 autocannons costs you 115pts...

The other option is to load up on special weapons and use them as budget chosen rocking around in a rhino.. all in all a lot of options, none of which is strictly bad.

Competitive

Obliterators: generally better than they were, and they were already the default go to for chaos heavy support, the only issue they now have is how crowded the slot is. The ability to deepstrike as I said above I value for chaos a lot. They also have marks to let them cover any weaknesses.. 4++ or T5 to avoid instant death vs. missiles etc. A good choice that can be flavoured to taste.

Competitive

Defiler: well I hope he likes being a book stop cos that's where they'll stay. They arn't strictly bad.. but they do suffer from the hybrid rule as in they arn't bad in combat or shooting but you sadly can't do both.. I feel the nerf to fleet hits them badly, I can't see them competing against the other 7 options in the slot. In fairness they are tough, with IwnD and 4 HP my issue is more it doesn't do anything when it's alive. Daemonforge, and 5++ saves are better on the new stuff sadly.

Casual

Forgefiend
the first of the new toys to be reviewed.. Deamonic possession means it will always be shooting and with the nature of it's template weapons and 8 shot weapons it doesn't mind being Bs3 too much. It has all the special rules that a defiler has but it's shooting is a lot more impressive, you feel you can make the most of it's deamonforge which is really nice. It gives you a choice between heavy ap2 plasma instadeathing paladin death or efficient autocannons.. All in all not a bad buy and resilient enough to make it worth the heavy point tag.
Competitive

Maulerfiend
I really like the moving 12 thing and it truly is a danger to fortifications which it will shred. Sadly, the lasher tendrils don't work on grenades so it still has to be careful of marines or krak grenade carrying things. It will mess things up and it is good at dealing with vehicles and armour but sadly even with it's lasher tendrils it doesn't cut through infantry much and with fearless becoming more popular I can see it being tied up by a unit of cheap fearless fodder and the poor thing is never going to finish killing them all.. It does it's roll well.. but it's not a roll that is always needed on a battlefield.
Fair

Chaos Landraider: it hasn't changed much, I do rate the classic LR but Chaos don't seem to do anything with it. The wargear is interesting and the anti overwatch is fun for when your terminators are charging out..
Fair

Chaos Vindicator: deamonic Possession rocks for the vindicator, simply because when you have one gun you want it to be firing. Admittedly stun locks don't exist like they did, but the changes to weapon destroyed becoming random is a boon for it.. (worth taking additional weapons to protect the demolisher cannon)
Positive

Chaos Predator: the hit to the BS for being possessed is more of a problem with the humble Predator. Solid AV not much different from a usual pred, they are as usual an honest gun tank that does what you need it for. Provides long range support in a short ranged army.
Fair
[b]
Fast attack: another umm crowded double page spread![u]

Bikers: Well, the first thing I notice is that I have to pay 10pts for a champion... whilst this isn't much of an issue it does annoy me when half the book gets them free. Well, bikes are fast, they get reasonable access to special weapons, you can have 2 meltaguns and a champion if you don't want any additional hangers on... You can have T6 bikes for only 26pts if I am fair that's not bad.. Veterans of the long war for a single point as well is a nice addition amongst elite units. Like everything in the book, you get what you pay for but everything seems reasonably priced and there are minimal restrictions on what you can and can't do with them, (such as a special weapon every 3 bikes etc). I think these guys will be used to fit gaps so will nearly always use their special weapon slots and use marks to excel at what they want to do.

Competitive

Chaos Spawn: Well.. I have to say I am amazed that the humble spawn has gone from a contender for the worst unit in the game to a 15include of in my army.. [editor: enough bias cute-hydra...] These guys are amazing if looked at the right way. Being fearless you throw them into a unit and you know that until your last spawn stops kicking that unit is not doing anything. Even assault terminators only have 2 attacks each, so 10attacks, 7 hits, 6 wounds, it still takes 3 phases to kill them all.. Assuming the spawns don't kill any with their abundance of strength 5 attacks. These guys are fast, they move as cavalyry so they are going to get into combat quickly. A MoN spawn is 3 wounds T6, so a full unit is 15wounds of T6 goodness throw them into marines and you know those marines are stuffed and stuck on wounding on 6's... They even have rage for more attacks on the charge and they get bonuses in combat.. okay they don't have a save but you really don't care. You can even have a char on mount join them if you really want to. 1/6th of your games they can claim objectives.. and the other games you just park them on objectives and know that they are not going anywhere! Amusingly they can get into vehicles if you really wanted as they are only VERY bulky..
Highly competitive

Raptors: Well they are your standard fun jump infantry.. what do they do different, they have fear and they have a ton of options. I hope they didn't pay a point a model for that. MoN seems good as they are very cheap for T5 jump infantry.. MoK is cheaper and makes them scary in combat with 4 attacks each on the charge with potential FC from icons.. with the best part of fleet they can use their jump packs to move and then use the Icon to reliably charge. MoT and MoS are par at best. They can take all the usual wargear so meltaguns on things that can deepstrike are always good. There main problem is they are sitting next to a ton of equally good options.
Competitive

Warptalons: I like that GW have created so many new units! Right back onto the review- I have spent more time on these guys than anyone else and I can say sadly that they are the possesed of the sky.. In combat they are decent, they have a 5++ and 3+ which is solid. I would give them MoS so they butcher a unit before it strikes back. Unfortunately: there is a shooting phase in this game.. and they are going to get boltered and at 30pts a model they cannot afford that.. 5 of them with upgrades is looking at terminator prices and the difference between a 2+ and 3+ is too much. Deepstriking makes the jump infantry role redundant, there blind ability is neat but the fact that we live in an I4 world makes it hardly effective against anyone whose not orks or crons, if you want blind take Slaanesh primaris power sorcerers.
Casual

Helldrake: well it's got everything that you want for a vehicle, Iwnd, deamonforge, deamon etc, I think it's main issue is it has 1 weapon.. the flamer is undoubtably devastating something that fast will mean MEQ units tremble in their power armoured boots. In flamer role it is atleast a dual roled unit as it can str 7 vector strike light flyers and vehicles whilst burning units. With the autocannon it is a designated aerial superiority fighter which I'd happily send against anything short of a vendetta in the sky.. Sadly for it, I think a vendetta would still beat it at 40pts less. It's not bad, and unlike some of the casual units it DOES something. I'm not convinced that what it does is worth the price tag.
Positive

Well that's the review done! There will be a copy on my blog: 40kwithoutluck.blogspot.com as with my usual tactical articles along with a few bits of my painting..

Have fun in the name of the dark gods, comments as ever welcome,

The reaaaaaaaal cute hydra!

Good, indepth, balanced review.

You forgot review the poor Combat Familiar!

The poor combat familiar may have been better off without an entry! But it's been changed, review finished as far as I know!

Thank you for the review. This certainly made me feel more confident about my planned World Eaters warband.

Good review. Just want to point out though that all Chaos Artifacts are one per army, so only one Burning Brand.

The attacks from the combat familiar are specifically S4 AP - and Ichor Blood S3 AP 4. If there is something in the DP entry that alters that, I'm missing it.

edited to add: Also, don't think undivided can take blight grenades. Footnote says requires MoN.

Hey, sorry I wasn't clear about the brand being one per army, I just think people will be very tempted to take it in every army.

The monstrous creature rules give them the smash special rule, BRB pg 42, which resolves all of their attacks at ap2 which would therefore upgrade things like combat familiar and potentially the blood.

And what I meant about the undivided with blight grenades is in order to have stealth you only need one model in the unit with stealth, so you can have a MoN character with them to give and undivided unit stealth. *shrugs* not bad for 5pts. As MoN cannot join any other marked units but they can join undivided units.

OK, I missed the marked Ch in you grenade example.

Thinking about the Familiar and the Ichor in the same context as, for example, AP3 Power weapons on MC, I see what you're saying. Gotta wonder if it'll be FAQ'd tho.

Here is the ranking of CSM units made above:

Very competitive
Sorcerer, Cultists(?), Terminator, Spawns

Competitive
Typhus, Ahriman, Lord, CSM troops, Plague Marines(?), Chosen, Havocs, Obliterators, Forgefiend, Bikes, Raptors

Positive
Abaddon, Noise Marines, Thousand Sons, Hellbrute, Vindicator, Helldrake

Fair
Bile, Lucius, Daemon Prince, Huron, Kharn, Khorne Berserkers, Maulerfiend, Chaos Landraider, Predator

Casual
Warpsmith, Dark Apostle, Multilator, Possessed, Defiler, Warptalons

(?) couldn't figure out.

nevermind

Interesting to see anothers take on it. I don't agree with all your points but you explained why you felt the way you did. Well written.
Thanks for posting.

A good read. Well written. Certainly helps some what with looking at lists

Hey, sorry your right I didn't say what I'd rank Cultist's as, probably competitive in most lists.

Cheers for the feedback guys! I totally agree, I ranked them to my opinion of them and I'm sure other people will have other opinions.. I'm actually looking at using a lot of only fair stuff in my list to come simply because they have a role in the army that they don't have a lot of, aka flyers.

Have fun!

Thanks for the list, pretty well rounded. I may have to look into Spawn now for a close combat army.

Cool

Nice review. Don't think you are quite right in your interpretation of the combat familiar and the Ichor Blood though. I can kinda see what you are trying to say with the CF, but with the IB, I don't see how you are getting that it would be AP2 if it is taken on a Monstrous Creature. Still, good review!

Yeah I'm rethinking it, I think it would work for the familiar because it's his own attacks, so str 4 ap 2 from smash, though the ichor bloods not an attack so I'd agree that I was wrong there, I think the familiar needs FAQing RAW I'd say it would.. as smash augments his attacks and the wording is it gives him additional attacks. *Shrugs* Minor points for a looooooooong review.. glad to see people found bits of it helpful makes it worth writing.

 Lord_Mortis wrote:
Nice review. Don't think you are quite right in your interpretation of the combat familiar and the Ichor Blood though. I can kinda see what you are trying to say with the CF, but with the IB, I don't see how you are getting that it would be AP2 if it is taken on a Monstrous Creature. Still, good review!

Smash states ALL attacks made by themodel are AP2. CF adds attacks to the model.

 Texx wrote:
Thanks for the list, pretty well rounded. I may have to look into Spawn now for a close combat army.

That's also my thought. I'll consider one or two full units.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Lord_Mortis wrote:
Nice review. Don't think you are quite right in your interpretation of the combat familiar and the Ichor Blood though. I can kinda see what you are trying to say with the CF, but with the IB, I don't see how you are getting that it would be AP2 if it is taken on a Monstrous Creature. Still, good review!

Smash states ALL attacks made by themodel are AP2. CF adds attacks to the model.

Yeah, I understand that. Which is why I said I can kinda see what the OP was saying. RAW it could be correct, but RAI, it could be the other way, as it could have just said a model gains 2 extra attacks with the users strength and AP. RAI, it "seems" like it would be not the model itself attacking, but the familiar, and the given stats of the attack are the stats of the familiar. But this is more for YMDC than here.

I want to change the Bikers to Very Competitive.

10 Bikers kitted with mark of Khorn and the Khorn icon is around 250p.
2 TL bolter shots + 1 Hammer of wrath str 4 hit + x4 str 5 attacks each on the charge.
They hit hard as a nob biker for half the price.

I dont think there's any other unit in the game that can dish out this much pain for the points.
They are rather tough with T5 and 3+ and 5+ cover save too.
Add a lord on a Juggernught with the blind axe or some other fancy weapons and you have a nice little deathstar for not that many points.

Imo the whole codex goes more to the vanilla direction. I think we will see more Dakka preds, havocs, bikers, raptors, marines and terminators.
The "normal" chaos marine units. Because all those units got a big point reduction (except the Termies who are rather nice anyway)
This fits perfect for an "Space Marines gone bad" themed army.

Also, note that the Spawns are beast who cant enter transports, so the bulky rule is abit stupid.
And that the Blinding axe gives rage, but you need to have a mark of Khorn to take it, so you will most likly have rage twice. Are we paying points for this?

 Vombat wrote:
I want to change the Bikers to Very Competitive.

10 Bikers kitted with mark of Khorn and the Khorn icon is around 250p.
2 TL bolter shots + 1 Hammer of wrath str 4 hit + x4 str 5 attacks each on the charge.
They hit hard as a nob biker for half the price.

I dont think there's any other unit in the game that can dish out this much pain for the points.
They are rather tough with T5 and 3+ and 5+ cover save too.
Add a lord on a Juggernught with the blind axe or some other fancy weapons and you have a nice little deathstar for not that many points.

And that the Blinding axe gives rage, but you need to have a mark of Khorn to take it, so you will most likly have rage twice. Are we paying points for this?

Charging into difficult terrain pushes them back into competitive/positive. Spawn or raptors are probably the better bet for fast attack. Still good though.

 Vombat wrote:
I want to change the Bikers to Very Competitive.
And that the Blinding axe gives rage, but you need to have a mark of Khorn to take it, so you will most likly have rage twice. Are we paying points for this?

We probably are. Hopefully they will get a FAQ out for this codex and fix some of these embarrassing mistakes.

Cute-hydra, I like your review. Thank you. You are however missing the Steed of Slaanesh.

I think Slaanesh marked bikers are very competitive giving them the Icon of Excess makes them T5, I5, FNP. This just seems fantastic to me. Give the Champion a Power Sword (or Maul) and I think they could put out a lot of hurt,

The army I had prior to this codex has been largely reaffirmed by this. I was previously playing 9 spawn and a slaanesh themed bike squad. Now I just need to finish my lord on steed and may grow the bike squad.

I'm pretty sure that Veterans of the Long War have to be purchased, as it's listed in the options as "x points per model".

 kcwm wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Veterans of the Long War have to be purchased, as it's listed in the options as "x points per model".

Its cost varies with different units. A couple of units can take it for free.

 aka_mythos wrote:
Its cost varies with different units. A couple of units can take it for free.

I understand that, but Cute_Hydra posted

cute_hydra wrote:
Veterans of the Long War:
Amazingly cool, that they have realised how many people were into the Horus Heresy fluff and allow people to have ancient armies,the fact they don’t penalise players by saying they have to pay points for it by making it a universal rule across the book.

That's not correct, so I was pointing out that there IS a points cost associated.

Glancing through, the only Troops, Fast Attack, Elite, or Heavy Support that get it for free are the Thousand Sons. As for HQ units, the DP gets it for free and the Dark Apostle can elect to take it for free as an option, which I don't see why they would since they already get a general Hatred for being a Zealot and have 10 Leadership. Other than that, units pay 1-5 points.

Regardless, it's a great special rule to have, especially with the overall lack of ATSKNF (which CSM didn't have in the previous codex) and the cost of having a Fearless unit. That extra +1 makes a big difference, IMHO.