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Largo39 wrote:
Id say 2 5 man instead, lets you pick 2 different threats and target them and seperates their fire.

Or just combat-squad them...that way you can get 2 5 man squads in on turn one with 1 transport for less.

As the maker of this booming thread, i decree that some talk of imperial armor is reasonable, but keep it withing reason (unlike me) maybe talk about what is the best AA or the best support FW has for us. Army lists and such need not aply and must make new threads.

(sorry, though I should take over X-X and woohoo!! 10 pages!!)

For my gunline, I use an epistolary with telepathy. Invisibility is great for devastators, puppet master is a good power. The only problem is that one power is absalutlly useless. (the one that lets you regroup, but we have ATSKNF)

What about the shriek ability?

It's pretty good. Against infantry guard, it is brutal. It is also good for killing a few meq, or even teq, due to ignoring armour and cover.

 Griddlelol wrote:

Largo39 wrote:
Id say 2 5 man instead, lets you pick 2 different threats and target them and seperates their fire.

Or just combat-squad them...that way you can get 2 5 man squads in on turn one with 1 transport for less.

Was going to say the same thing. This is a great use of 10 Sternguard in a pod. 5 Melta and 5 Flamer make a nasty combo when popping heavy transports. The melta drop the Tank, then when the sloggers jump out, the flamers fry them up for dessert. Even if it is 10 multimelta in drop pod, then you can can drop 2 tanks in one turn.

Hey I got a question for everyone. I have 5 mkIV suits of armor and I want to make a badass squad. What's a good load out on a 5 man squad from our codex? Any squad any load out.

Command squads are 5 man. You could do a command could do a command squad with 4 plasma guns. You could also use 5 sternguard with combi-weapons.

A combat squadded sternguard in a pod would be pretty nifty, that's definitely a better use i think. That would be pretty good for a vulkan army, he only concern is just how easily it might all die (and at 335 points that's a fifth of a 1500 point army), but it certainyl could wreck a lot.

The best psychic table for me is either divination or our base abilities.

You get divination via Adeth, a FW librarian choice (165 points, mastery 2, 5++ save, one of his powers has to be one which gives his squad shroud and defenseive grenades)


Otherwise our base abilities have been the most useful. A base librarian gets you Gate and Null Zone. Null zone is agreat for taking on TEQ/eldar/wraiths/etc pretty much all our scariest and ususally beefiest CC opponents.

Secondly gate is god for a gunline because we typically lack mobility which it fixes for us. Need to go claim an objective 24 inches away on turn 5? gate your libby and his tactical squad over there. A hive tyrant about to charge your face and slaughter you? Gate away! It's just soooo useful.


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As for FW in tourneys.. yeah it's definitely half and half so far (or more like 70-30), but critically all of frontlinegaming/reecius's tourneys allow it and those are the ones that (were I to) I would attend if any.

Armadeus wrote:
Command squads are 5 man. You could do a command could do a command squad with 4 plasma guns. You could also use 5 sternguard with combi-weapons.

Hmm I have 3 plasma guns, 3 plasma, 1combi plas, and the apothecary could look nice. I already have too many combi melta sternguard(12 haha) from playing a Vulcan army for almost a year;p

What's another good command squad non bike load out. These are more for show and the occasional game.

Well, you could use a standard and some power weapons. Not sure how effective it would be, but it would look nice.

I was thinking about power weapons. But I want it to be a squad I don't mind using in games that looks awesome and I don't think that'd work for me. They'll probably end up my plasma vet command squad with dynamic poses and other stuff. Although I may just magnetize them haha.

Id say either magnetize or plasma. Plasma is sooo much fun now

Yah I can imagine what a 4xplasma, 1combi plas could do to a squad of 2+ saves haha. Although with my rolling ill lose half the squad first shot.

barnowl wrote:

 Griddlelol wrote:

Largo39 wrote:
Id say 2 5 man instead, lets you pick 2 different threats and target them and seperates their fire.

Or just combat-squad them...that way you can get 2 5 man squads in on turn one with 1 transport for less.

Was going to say the same thing. This is a great use of 10 Sternguard in a pod. 5 Melta and 5 Flamer make a nasty combo when popping heavy transports. The melta drop the Tank, then when the sloggers jump out, the flamers fry them up for dessert. Even if it is 10 multimelta in drop pod, then you can can drop 2 tanks in one turn.

Used this last night against necrons, sadly no armour to pop but the flamers did some nice damage to scarab swarms (7 there was) and used ignore cover ammo from the 5 man squad with meltas, was then charged by 6 wraiths into the melta guys, and 3 scarabs (spiders popped two out, they were down to one) and 2 spiders charged into the flamer guys, flamer guys were down to 1 sternguard left and meltas only lost 1, both run away and got away denying him first blood!.

In most games sternguard have not been wiped out stright away and force the opponent to double back and try to kill them (I usually run them with sang priest for added saves but didnt last night). I then focused all my fire on one wraith squad and killed all 6 in one shooting phase,good bless misfourtune, and planned on doing the same to the other squad, then it all went down hill from there, but they done what was needed of them

Yeah sternguard get signifigantly more awesome and durable when they have FNP, but alas vanilla marines lack that option

The main trick is that you always want at least 2 pods, so you get control when they come down. So you ususally want sternguard in one and a dread in another (for nilla marines Id go with a seige dread from FW. str 6 ap 3 flamer, heavy flamer built into a CCW and extra armor), and then you get some more control of when things go down.

It's a great move, but also one that can be predicted by an opponent and countered with placement or sufficent bodies. *shrug*,

I've been looking at other MEQ RB spam related armies. BA's main weakness (having played them a lot previously before I went to Codex SM) is that if their RBs are popped early on the 5 man AS is not contributing for about 1-2 turns. They are just 5 guys walking up till they can shoot something with their pistols...If they are equipped with a PG then they can shoot a bit for those 1-2 turns.

Been thinking of actually doing a RB related type build with Codex SM. Not so much as a "spam" build like GK and BA do with PsyAssback and Las/Plas back respectively. But just as a "filler" to get more firepower into our lists.

Hear me out and please let me know what you think.

5x Tactical Squad
RB w/ Assault Cannon

Totals to 165 pts. 5 pts less than a BA RAS squad with a PG. Difference other than the PG is that if we get disembarked turn 1 or 2 we are still helping with our guys inside since we got bolters. I can't tell you how many times my opp. who I played often figured out to just pop my RBs (when I played BA) early. Half my troop pts would then become useless for 1-2 turns while he outmaneuvered me and took apart the rest of my army.

Now GK can do this for 160 pts and even have a Psycannon and HBs with Psybolt ammo. Ours has an assault cannon thought so we got rending + 1 more shot. We also have our combat tactics to do fun things with.


So with that in mind it feels definitely better than BAs fast RBs with RAS since it suffers less if it gets popped in your DZ by a smart opp. It also feels fairly comparable to GKs though they do get a Psycannon.

Also this is just analyzing the RB with an assault cannon. We can still have all that goodness with a HB RB for only 140 pts...

What are you guys thought on this? Was inspired to do this after reading someones post here about taking a 10 man naked tactical squad with no special/heavy weapons. Worth trying? Or no?



**Note: This is NOT something I would say to spam. Something merely as a "point filler" to squeeze in more fire power/ midfield presence and scoring marines.

Im not quite sure you realize where the power of RB spam is and what MEQ does it best.


BA: sure those 5 ASM are walking around, but their RB is FAST and they get a MG or PG at 5 men. So BA get a fast vehicle and a special weapon for the cost.
GK: they dont do it with MEQ.. they do it with acolytes. it comes out tooo 97 points for a psyback with 3 acolytes. Thats 4 str 7 rending (yep they rend) shots.
SW: the best with MEQ, cause they get it all, special weapon, counter attack, 2 CC weapons, and bolters and the RB with whatever you want. This is the "classic" RB spam unit.


Meanwhile we get... er, no special weapon and no speedy tank, and no counter attack. at 5 guys. It's about the worst thing to do to our tactical squads. we need those special and heavy weapons to survive, it's literally the only advantage we have over our brethren (well except BA who get it too but meh).

RB spam in 6th is pretty dead because it's pretty easy to pop those RBs, the only ones who have hung onto it are mostly GK because they just get so many of the little buggers for cheap, and they still get a lot of their fancier toys. The other races can because they have speciic advantages/dont really mind being a 5 man squad. But for us it's pretty crippling for at best some AC shots.

If you really need to fill in points go with our much more effective HS options (TFC! please god get it if you dont have it already!) or even FA options (MM attack bikes are killers...) to fill, and just get normal 10 man tacs (why would you ever run them naked? you get a flamer and ML for free after all).


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combat tactics doesnt really help for 5 man squads. Anything that would want to assault them will almost certainly wipe them out, sides.. you retreat to shoot.. bolters again? the point about combat tactics is you get to move out, regroup WITHOUT being considered having moved (from ATTSKNF). Boom suddenly your heavy weapon gets shots off again.

Yah it seems like codex marines got hosed with RB spam by the other codices. They all have a +1 to what they can do. And space wolves also get access to mark of the wulfen which is unique and pretty powerful.

We get things like Vulcan, and thunderfire, and scoring bikers, and 12 man drop pods. We don't really do MSU we do foot and drop pod armies nicely. And shooty a bit better than the other codices just in general.

And just for the record I'm pretty ok with not needing to spam a unit for success.


Also I have a question that is OT. When was the last time a C:SM army won a major tournament and what was the army list. Like an adepticon, or nova, or 'Ard boys?

Umm, winning a major tourney... not for a whiiiille but then, to be fair, 6th hasnt been out all that long. Most of our tools which are now awesome (bikes, rapid fire PG, TFC, bolter fire, combat squadding, etc) were somewhat or signifigantly less awesome in 5th.

For example, the TFC was what, av10? that does not make for a very durable artillary. in 5th you were lucky to get a shot off, in 6th you're pretty mcuh garunteed at LEAST 1 if not 2. Similarly the vindicator in 5th was 1 glance away from being unable to shoot... now is a virable and much more deadly tool.

So C:SM in general got significantly better in 6th, and given the relative lack of tournaments in 6th we're still doing pretty well for ourselves (ususally t12 id say).

However there are definitelly still some-dog lists:

GK/IG - MSU spam (with dettas ususally, or just a shitton of infantry like that one GK list with a full platoon)
GK/Crons - MSU with flyers
Cron Air
Eldar/DE harlistar

Then IG and Nids ususally fill in the gaps., and maybe a SW or so.

Our biggest threat in that is necron air. It's a popular list and one we have a tough time with. We dont have a whole lot of air, or ways to necessarily twin link things. GK or IG msu survives air by sheer number of scoring units (they ususally max out all 6 with acolytes) and psycannon fire. We dont have acess to that power. Most of the time though GK has to ally with IG which, in a non FW setting is what we'd have to do too to survive.

So the reason why we havent reallly WON anything is, for the most part, due to cron air. We can beat harliestar fairly reasonably (especially with ignore cover tools like flamer dreads in pods, sternguard, TFCs, etc), and GK on their own is a decently even fight if a bit in their favor. But we fold pretty hardocre to decent cron air, and wraiths can be a serious problem for us on top of that. Other armies are just better able to handle that (GK) and thus, they win.

Now if you allow FW on the other hand i argue we jump at least to more 4th-5th place because of seig dreads/contemptors annnnd hyperios, which gives us badly needed cheap aa. Now, to be fair, IG get the sabre turret which is even better cheap AA, so they become top dog in a tournament setting, which is what we saw in one of the recent frontlinegaming tournies, but we at least jump to where we are t8 if not t4 or t5, a good increase i think.

Ok heres a good one...

Our greatest weakness as a Codex! What do you guys believe is our greatest weakness in 6th edition?

We are jack of all trades master of none but I think most of our other fields we got covered pretty good. Anti-horde/mech, a decent troop choice... I believe our anti-air and capability to have more bodies is our greatest weakness.

What do you guys think? What is our weakness?

Melee. Vanilla can't put out enough attacks across the entire book to be decent at melee. TH/SS Terminators are also not the end all be all melee unit, their main intent in lists is to destroy other enemy deathstars.

I think our biggest weakness is anti-air. The stormtalon just doesn't compare to other flyers.

I'd say that we are a big shooty army, and most of our captains excel at CCW...

And the fact we have to have Special characters (or IA 9-10) to unlock some real goodies.

If no FW: AA

If FW: melee (although we do have some good specialty characters, the majority of good melee armies comes from a unit that excels at it. TH/SS terminators are a defensive tarpit against big scary things, not an offensive option against tanks/troops/genestealers/wraiths/etc).

I think allies are a must (to be as competitive as possible since we have these weaknesses in our army)...so what do you guys think is our best allies?

IMO it's IG. IG give us their broken flyer as well as bodies, which all MEQ armies are generally lacking. As well as some nice cheap plasma/melta suicide squads.

I see GK as a close second since their Psyrifle dreads can help with anti-air and duality support for anti-light and medium vehicles.

Kind of a toss up and I'm honestly not sure which one I'd want to pick.. I know it has to do with the rest of your army, but I run a fairly standard gunline. 3x Rifle Dreads, Tactical Squads, Predators, and Speeders on top. Both seem like extremely good options IMO and it's real tough deciding which one to take.






Aside: Help me pick my Codex SM's color scheme by voting please Standard Blue vs Deathwatch scheme
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/489059.page#4981504

Vanilla Marines biggest weaknesses are assault and anti-air. Anti-air can be somewhat answered with Telion + Aegis, Stormtalons, allies, and IA. In melee, however, we aren't that lucky. Despite being a jack of all trades army, so to speak, the simple truth is that with the exception of a dedicated Assault Terminator squad, and maybe a full assault/vanguard squad with a Chaplain, we simply lack the means of getting enough wounds on the enemy in combat, and this is made worse by the fact that combat squads tend to be the superior deployment method in anything that isn't annihilation. Even Assault squads by themselves will fold against any other dedicated melee unit, and as mentioned before TH/SS termies are best as a counter-deathstar unit. Vanilla Marines even suffer in assault against non-assault armies, where even though they might eventually win, they will likely be tarpited while they slowly chip away at the enemy.

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
New question ( not about forgeworld) which psychic table is the best for a shooty army?

I'm using Pyromancy right now, 4+ cover saves are decent.

That's also because I don't take a mastery 2 psyker. Invisibility is the only good thing for shooty armies, though Puppet Master is decent as well if you are good at rolling 5 or less on two dice. (I guess it can control tanks now? I've heard that Psychic powers can't control Vehicles due to not having a STR value. I'll have to reread it.)

The main downside for Vanilla Marines is that our Librarians are BS4. Hitting on 3s as a character, who's main shtick is shooting psychic powers is kind of weak. Though, casting cover saves for your Contemptor Mortis or Vindicators is aweeeesome.

Thanks Crazy!


Alright, new stuff.... if you had it, how would you use a land raider Redeemer thats full of assault marines with a Relic blade/storm shield captain?

Well...since it's an assault vehicle, with very close-range minded weapons, and it's filled with assault marines with CC capabilities...there is probably only 1 way to run it.

Centrally deploy it if your deploying first so you have the most options to respond to however they set up. If your going 2nd, match it across whatever you want to smash on his side of the field, but stay away from CC dedicated units since yours is filled with good CC units but not capable of beating a real CC dedicated unit.