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The same goes for Ahriman and Sorc or lord on disk with a 3++ inv
pretty mean and turn two you have raptors & Oblits tearing his army up,make sure to have a defensline with reroll failed reserver roll

Couldn't you give a DP infiltrate and have it munch something?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Couldn't you give a DP infiltrate and have it munch something?

No, because a DP isn't Unit Type: Infantry.

Again, you can only infiltrate infantry units and you're not allowed to assault out of infiltrating. Turn one assaulting is extremely difficult (only if you use pavane) and almost impossible if your opponent knows what you're doing.

You're better off with a biker unit turboboosting on turn one, that will make up the distance you would infiltrate anyway. And you wouldn't have to pay for Huron, just pay for stuff that's good in your list.

I was thinking of beefing up a Khorne Lord on a Juggernaut with paired claws and a mess of (sub-optimal but angry) Khornate Bikers, just because that's what I want to try. If I drop a Key on this Juggernaut Lord, does that mean I could (potentially) DS my Berserkers rather than footslogging (no way) or trundling up in Rhinos?

THAT sounds appealing.

5-9 marines with free ccw + MoK + Icon of wrath or zerkers +icon
lord with dimensional key + other wargear
put them in a landraider, deploy at max distance possible
move up 12" disembark to the max, try to charge closest enemy, don't forget that you get reroll on your distance rolled.
you get a max charge distance of a bit less than 30" (12" landraider move + <6 disembark + max 12" charge)

if your opponent has something deployed at his max deployment distance, and you can go second, there is a realy good chance that you activate the key in first turn.
that + ADL with comms relay means that almost everything you want to deepstrike arrives in turn 2 wherever you want them to arrive

I'm pretty sure you can't disembark if a vehicle moves more than 6" any more, so your maximum charge distance is a bit less than 24". So less than the absolute closest you'll be on turn one.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if a character dies then his warhead goes with him. So the key bearer will have to be sturdy.

Also, you don't want to go first: assaults in the first player turn are not allowed. Which means your opponent has a pretty good chance of avoiding your key bearer, or targeting it as a prime unit. Assuming they know what the key is and where it's at.

All in all I'm not sure trying to plan around the key can work as a viable strategy. Of course, most of the deep striking strategies I've seen for non-drop pod armies don't seem to work out.

clively wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if a character dies then his warhead goes with him. So the key bearer will have to be sturdy.

Is T5 and 4 wounds sufficiently tough?

The zone that the Key creates seems pretty great, but I'm not sure if it's best utilized by Bikes... Maybe it *would* be better on a Raptor/Warptalon unit. Not sure how to make them tough enough, though.

I don't really see the point of the key. Chaos has no efficient way to bring units in from deepstrike anyway. The key is risky, and may not even activate before your deepstriking units arrive.


Using one of the infiltrating warlords, or just taking demon allies with guaranteed turn 1 demonic assault seems like a much better option.

 heysparky wrote:

clively wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if a character dies then his warhead goes with him. So the key bearer will have to be sturdy.

Is T5 and 4 wounds sufficiently tough?

The zone that the Key creates seems pretty great, but I'm not sure if it's best utilized by Bikes... Maybe it *would* be better on a Raptor/Warptalon unit. Not sure how to make them tough enough, though.

The only reason the Keymaster have to be sturdy is to not give up the warlord kill pointa, as the rule for the dimension key is written, I don't think you lose the deep strike part.

"Furthermore any friendly units from this codex that arrive by Deep Strike after the Key's power har been unlocked do not scatter"

If you lost that power, wouldn't there be a line like "As long as the key bearer is alive" or "this power is lost ones the key bearer dies", or am I giving GW to much credit?

 Limbo wrote:

 heysparky wrote:

clively wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that if a character dies then his warhead goes with him. So the key bearer will have to be sturdy.

Is T5 and 4 wounds sufficiently tough?

The zone that the Key creates seems pretty great, but I'm not sure if it's best utilized by Bikes... Maybe it *would* be better on a Raptor/Warptalon unit. Not sure how to make them tough enough, though.

The only reason the Keymaster have to be sturdy is to not give up the warlord kill pointa, as the rule for the dimension key is written, I don't think you lose the deep strike part.

"Furthermore any friendly units from this codex that arrive by Deep Strike after the Key's power har been unlocked do not scatter"

If you lost that power, wouldn't there be a line like "As long as the key bearer is alive" or "this power is lost ones the key bearer dies", or am I giving GW to much credit?

No idea, but now that you can give berzerkers and terminators infiltrate I don't think you need to keep them off the table for 2-3 turns.

I am going to base my strategy around copious amounts of infiltrating berzerkers and terminators, and lots and lots of cheap melta bikers!

What about taking a lord on a bike or jump pack and a squad of 3 bikes or 5 raptors and give them MOK and icon of wrath, this way your first turn you can move 12 and re roll your charge distance, if the enemy goes first and moves towards you you should be able to get assaults first turn in theory its technically possible to get one turn 1 even if you go first if you get lucky and roll 12 for charge... and having the lord in a squad also means he wont die to shooting.

also keep in mind if you vs an assault based army you can go first, move towards them, then in their turn they charge you and you should get at least 1 kill in their turn 1

I'm liking this idea, 2000pt with double FOC meaning 6 units of suicide terminators armed to the teeth with meltas!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Something like this could be nice and powerful http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/481723.page#4858501

Juggalo17 wrote:
What about taking a lord on a bike or jump pack and a squad of 3 bikes or 5 raptors and give them MOK and icon of wrath, this way your first turn you can move 12 and re roll your charge distance, if the enemy goes first and moves towards you you should be able to get assaults first turn in theory its technically possible to get one turn 1 even if you go first if you get lucky and roll 12 for charge... and having the lord in a squad also means he wont die to shooting.

also keep in mind if you vs an assault based army you can go first, move towards them, then in their turn they charge you and you should get at least 1 kill in their turn 1

I'm liking this idea, 2000pt with double FOC meaning 6 units of suicide terminators armed to the teeth with meltas!

If the player knows what the dimensional key is, and what the keymaster is up to, they won't let you get in range to assault turn one... you could pull this on a Noob but not any competitive player.

And I think bikes are the best vehicle for this. The reason.. turboboost, a guaranteed extra 12 inch of movement, so that by turn 2 you'll be in range to assault something.

A player that knows what's up will be forced to focus fire on that biker unit, hopefully a bad allocation of shooting power for them... or, make some hard decisions about moving their forces out of the way or trying to assault the unit!

what do you guys think? Biker deathstar unit....

2 Lords on bikes...

Keymaster w/ mutation, sigil of corruption, bike, murder sword, mark of slaanesh, volw = 200
Lord w/ bike, sigil of corruption, power mace, plasma pistol, mark of slaanesh, volw = 170
10 bikers w/ 2 meltagun, power sword on the sarge, plasma pistol, mutation, meltabombs, mark of slaanesh, icon of excess, volw =
350

= 710

It's survivable, plenty of T5, FNP bodies to shield the lords. Single out the enemy's most badass character that you will end up fighting with the murder sword, and they have to decline the challenge (or die), leaving you to murder the rest of the unit...

Then grab 3 squads of oblits (maybe nine total), have them deepstriking in. The rest of the points will need to be spent on troops though.

Sorry...

Why can't you charge if you've infiltrated? I can understadn not chargign after outflank (as you are coming in from reserves). but if you Infiltrate then you are already on the table on Turn 1 adn well with charge range if your opponent has deplyed forward.

Land raider charging - does the Assault Vehcile ruel over-ride the "no disembarking if you move more than 6 inches" rule? So can i actualyl move my Land Raider 12" and charge a unit out of it?

 Praxiss wrote:
Sorry...

Why can't you charge if you've infiltrated? I can understadn not chargign after outflank (as you are coming in from reserves). but if you Infiltrate then you are already on the table on Turn 1 adn well with charge range if your opponent has deplyed forward.

Land raider charging - does the Assault Vehcile ruel over-ride the "no disembarking if you move more than 6 inches" rule? So can i actualyl move my Land Raider 12" and charge a unit out of it?

Absolutely not. It only overrides the limitation on assaulting after disembarking. That is all. Nothing else.

And as for assaulting out of infiltrate, I'm pretty sure that's explained in the infiltrate rule.

Oh, ok. I dont have anything that infiltrates so i most likely just never go round to reading that bit.

And re: the land Raider bit - that's what i though. i got confused when i saw a post further up that said you could get a 30" turn 1 charge with a a Land Raider.

It should also be noted that because it says "first turn" unqualified that means it's player turn. So the player who is going second is free to assault, only the guy who got first turn is restricted.

Also doesn't the infiltrate warlord trait say "infiltrate d3 infantry"?

...are bikes infantry?

wtb rulebook close at hand

No. bikes are "Unit Type: Bikes."

Infantry includes: Cultists, Marines, Cult Units, Terminators, HQs (but NOT DPs), Possessed, Mutilators, Obliterators & Havocs.

These are the units with "Type: Infantry"

An Idea that I've had is using a Chaos Lord on a bike in a squad of Chaos Spawn (is this allowed? not read the codex) and try to get a charge turn 1 by using an allied detachment containing The Masque in order to fling enemy units into the path of the Lord/Spawn combo.

Obviously I don't know about equipment etc, so if someone would like to elaborate on this for me it'd be appreciated

Iranna.

 Iranna wrote:
An Idea that I've had is using a Chaos Lord on a bike in a squad of Chaos Spawn (is this allowed? not read the codex) and try to get a charge turn 1 by using an allied detachment containing The Masque in order to fling enemy units into the path of the Lord/Spawn combo.

Obviously I don't know about equipment etc, so if someone would like to elaborate on this for me it'd be appreciated

Iranna.

The masque can only fling a unit D6 inches, you can assault at most 24" (probably 18), and the enemy can always choose to deploy further than 24" inches from you.

So no, its a longshot and depends on your opponent being nooby or you didn't tell them what the key does, and deploying right on the front line. That's a move like fools mate in chess.

Spawn are awesome but the bikes are faster, they have a guaranteed 24" movement while the spawn only have 12 +D6

 Meade wrote:

 Iranna wrote:
An Idea that I've had is using a Chaos Lord on a bike in a squad of Chaos Spawn (is this allowed? not read the codex) and try to get a charge turn 1 by using an allied detachment containing The Masque in order to fling enemy units into the path of the Lord/Spawn combo.

Obviously I don't know about equipment etc, so if someone would like to elaborate on this for me it'd be appreciated

Iranna.

The masque can only fling a unit D6 inches, you can assault at most 24" (probably 18), and the enemy can always choose to deploy further than 24" inches from you.

So no, its a longshot and depends on your opponent being nooby or you didn't tell them what the key does, and deploying right on the front line. That's a move like fools mate in chess.

Spawn are awesome but the bikes are faster, they have a guaranteed 24" movement while the spawn only have 12 +D6

You keep mentioning that your oppponent need to be enough of a noob to fall for the turn 1 charge, which would mean that a more skilled player would hold back his forces in order to avoid the keymaster. I'm wondering if we can't exploit this in some way? With enough points an allied detachment of Basilisks would have a field day with an opponent who backs up his forces. This strategy could probably work well against drop pod armies too, since Drop Pod Assualt forces your opponent to put something down turn 1, and if the Keymaster can force them to deep strike alittle farther away, then that's probably a good thing.

I still think the best bet is a Swooping Demon Prince that flies in close for the kill. If he survives, he's gonna guarantee a 2nd turn Key setoff. Sure, his survivability vs cost is kinda bad, but that's how I'd do it.

any Lord on a Demonic Mount that makes them fast, surrounded by a bunch of CSM Bikers would probably do the trick, too.

 Limbo wrote:

You keep mentioning that your oppponent need to be enough of a noob to fall for the turn 1 charge, which would mean that a more skilled player would hold back his forces in order to avoid the keymaster. I'm wondering if we can't exploit this in some way? With enough points an allied detachment of Basilisks would have a field day with an opponent who backs up his forces. This strategy could probably work well against drop pod armies too, since Drop Pod Assualt forces your opponent to put something down turn 1, and if the Keymaster can force them to deep strike alittle farther away, then that's probably a good thing.

Yes I agree. As long as you give up the idea that you will be charging turn 1, still having that threat there changes the game significantly, and forces opponents to make decisions, and when you force people to make decisions sometimes they make the wrong ones.

Assault armies will have to decide to rush forward with everything hold back. Shooting armies will have to decide whether it's worth it to pour their anti-tank weaponry into the Keymaster.

Also, probably not a lot of people will use this artifact, so finding those who really know how to deal with it will be rare. Most people will either be irrationally afraid of it and hold forces back, or ignore it.

And I'll repeat again that just having this thing for insurance against your reserves not coming in turn 2, could help a lot to mitigate the randomness of reserves... that could still not come in until turn 4. You could also use a communications array, but I'm still not sold on that one since the Quad Gun is such auto-take for fortifications.

Of course, Grey Knights will just sit back and laugh, and use their OP Matt Ward psychic powers to shield them from the worst effects if the Dimensional portal is opened...