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So it appears things have changed with the defiler.

It is now armed with power fists. Its strength is listed as 8. Powerfists double strength but it caps out at 10. So to me that means if the defiler attacks with its p-fist in melee it actually is striking now at S10 and if they loose all all the weapons are base S8. Now in the old book they were listed as S6 with dreadnaught CCW so maybe it has always been this way and I'm just late to the party.

But it seems that a fully kitted CC defiler can lay down some hurt having 7 S10 attacks on the charge (or 7 S8 attacks with the opponent -D3 WS)

That's the reason why it will be shot down in priority if you dare to bring him to the front line

 Jayden63 wrote:
So it appears things have changed with the defiler.

It is now armed with power fists. Its strength is listed as 8. Powerfists double strength but it caps out at 10. So to me that means if the defiler attacks with its p-fist in melee it actually is striking now at S10 and if they loose all all the weapons are base S8. Now in the old book they were listed as S6 with dreadnaught CCW so maybe it has always been this way and I'm just late to the party.

But it seems that a fully kitted CC defiler can lay down some hurt having 7 S10 attacks on the charge (or 7 S8 attacks with the opponent -D3 WS)

IIRC The scourges -D3 WS applies regardless of its use for attacks. Yes?

Indeed, Scourges work in base to base, doesnt require you to be attacking. Mandatory to stop grenades making your day a miserable one.

Defilers are stupidly expensive now, as well.

They look interesting to be honest.

I am going to try fielding 2 in an apoc game in a few weeks with a bare-bones Warpsmith close by to support/repair them.

Between the 5++ for Daemon, the 5+ for "It Will Not Die" and the 4+ for Mechatendrils they should be a it more survivable.

If it has powerfists instead of dread ccw then it strikes at I1, am I right?

bagtagger wrote:
If it has powerfists instead of dread ccw then it strikes at I1, am I right?

No, the Unwieldy rule has an exception for walkers and MCs.

 Cheexsta wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
If it has powerfists instead of dread ccw then it strikes at I1, am I right?

No, the Unwieldy rule has an exception for walkers and MCs.

Got it, so there's really no diference between a dccw and a powerfist is there?

No, they just wanted a powerfist on the new oblit mated with a dreadnought model for dark vengeance.

DCCWs are also not Specialist Weapons. Not that it matters, since every other weapon a power fist on a Chaos walker can be paired up with is also a Specialist Weapon, so it'd get the +1 attack anyway.

 Cheexsta wrote:
DCCWs are also not Specialist Weapons. Not that it matters, since every other weapon a power fist on a Chaos walker can be paired up with is also a Specialist Weapon, so it'd get the +1 attack anyway.

Walkers have a different rule regarding bonus attacks (BRB, pg. 84). Does this trump Specialist Weapon?

Homer

 Praxiss wrote:
They look interesting to be honest.

I am going to try fielding 2 in an apoc game in a few weeks with a bare-bones Warpsmith close by to support/repair them.

Between the 5++ for Daemon, the 5+ for "It Will Not Die" and the 4+ for Mechatendrils they should be a it more survivable.

Mechatendrils? How does a Defiler get Mechatendrils?

The Warpsmith standing behind the defiler has the Mechatendrils not the defiler itself.

 Punisher Gatling Cannon wrote:
The Warpsmith standing behind the defiler has the Mechatendrils not the defiler itself.

Ahh I missed that.

No coffee this morning :(

well i have a game with 2 Defilers and a warpsmith in the list in the next week or so. So i'll post the results.

On paper the Defiler looks a lot better than before. have to see if it lives up to that.

 Praxiss wrote:
well i have a game with 2 Defilers and a warpsmith in the list in the next week or so. So i'll post the results.

On paper the Defiler looks a lot better than before. have to see if it lives up to that.

It should be, it went up by 45 points.

I think the Power Fists aren't counted for the weapon destroyed results?, which would be a bonus for assault defilers

 Lord Yayula wrote:
I think the Power Fists aren't counted for the weapon destroyed results?, which would be a bonus for assault defilers

They're still a weapon, and can be destroyed.

I don't care how many 5+ rolls you make, it doesn't compensate for the fact that this is still an AV 12 unit that costs 200 points. Watch a lascannon ruin your day in one shot (or a krakmissile, ffs) and then tell me how it feels.

Just no.

bagtagger wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
If it has powerfists instead of dread ccw then it strikes at I1, am I right?

No, the Unwieldy rule has an exception for walkers and MCs.

Got it, so there's really no diference between a dccw and a powerfist is there?

I think they want to get away from having the DCCW exist at all, as they're now expanding the close combat options of Walkers. It's a bit odd for only one of them to be called a DCCW.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

bagtagger wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
If it has powerfists instead of dread ccw then it strikes at I1, am I right?

No, the Unwieldy rule has an exception for walkers and MCs.

Got it, so there's really no diference between a dccw and a powerfist is there?

I think they want to get away from having the DCCW exist at all, as they're now expanding the close combat options of Walkers. It's a bit odd for only one of them to be called a DCCW.

Then why does the Dreadknight have DCCWs?

 Grey Templar wrote:

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:

bagtagger wrote:

 Cheexsta wrote:

bagtagger wrote:
If it has powerfists instead of dread ccw then it strikes at I1, am I right?

No, the Unwieldy rule has an exception for walkers and MCs.

Got it, so there's really no diference between a dccw and a powerfist is there?

I think they want to get away from having the DCCW exist at all, as they're now expanding the close combat options of Walkers. It's a bit odd for only one of them to be called a DCCW.

Then why does the Dreadknight have DCCWs?

Because it's a pre 6th codex, bro.

 Boneblade wrote:
I don't care how many 5+ rolls you make, it doesn't compensate for the fact that this is still an AV 12 unit that costs 200 points. Watch a lascannon ruin your day in one shot (or a krakmissile, ffs) and then tell me how it feels.

Just no.

With a 72" battlecannon, lascannons shouldn't be too much bother unless they are on a Land Raider. And there could be other targets for the lascannons, too, this isn't a game in a vacuum...

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Boneblade wrote:
I don't care how many 5+ rolls you make, it doesn't compensate for the fact that this is still an AV 12 unit that costs 200 points. Watch a lascannon ruin your day in one shot (or a krakmissile, ffs) and then tell me how it feels.

Just no.

With a 72" battlecannon, lascannons shouldn't be too much bother unless they are on a Land Raider. And there could be other targets for the lascannons, too, this isn't a game in a vacuum...

Totally true, but I've had enough experience fielding AV 12 to know what they should and should not be expected to do. Surviving multiple turns (even with a 4+ or 5+ save) is not usually one of them. But that's a conversation more suited for Tactics, I think.

My only real issue is that with all those weapon options, can we at least get to shoot at 2 targets?!?! PLEASE!!!!

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Boneblade wrote:
I don't care how many 5+ rolls you make, it doesn't compensate for the fact that this is still an AV 12 unit that costs 200 points. Watch a lascannon ruin your day in one shot (or a krakmissile, ffs) and then tell me how it feels.

Just no.

With a 72" battlecannon, lascannons shouldn't be too much bother unless they are on a Land Raider. And there could be other targets for the lascannons, too, this isn't a game in a vacuum...

Glanced one to death the other day with a autocannon, took a few hull points off with devi squad of 2 ML and 2 LC behind a aegis before that, yes it has a 72inch range but outside of apoc games who cares, it did hide just outside of my range for a few turns but while I was killing his troops and had cover saves it did pretty average

in the 3k apoc game I had before that it did a bit more damage but my assault range soon took care of two of them

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Boneblade wrote:
I don't care how many 5+ rolls you make, it doesn't compensate for the fact that this is still an AV 12 unit that costs 200 points. Watch a lascannon ruin your day in one shot (or a krakmissile, ffs) and then tell me how it feels.

Just no.

With a 72" battlecannon, lascannons shouldn't be too much bother unless they are on a Land Raider. And there could be other targets for the lascannons, too, this isn't a game in a vacuum...

Vendettas have six lascannons and the battle cannon can't scratch it.

Kevlar wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Boneblade wrote:
I don't care how many 5+ rolls you make, it doesn't compensate for the fact that this is still an AV 12 unit that costs 200 points. Watch a lascannon ruin your day in one shot (or a krakmissile, ffs) and then tell me how it feels.

Just no.

With a 72" battlecannon, lascannons shouldn't be too much bother unless they are on a Land Raider. And there could be other targets for the lascannons, too, this isn't a game in a vacuum...

Vendettas have six lascannons and the battle cannon can't scratch it.

3 Twin-linked lascannons. Way different from 6 lascannons.

Defiler changes are okay, it's point cost turns people away though.
An AV12 vehicle really should cost as much as a Monolith, no matter how many fancy stuff they toss on it.

I, for one, will most likely not be running my 2-3 defilers. At their new point cost, it would add 150 points without any upgrades! I wonder if they upped their cost to cut back on defi-spam lists. And it is an interesting question on whether or not the powerfist can be weapon destroyed or not... the defiler is in no way modeled to look like a powerfist either...