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I've heard a rumour on a RED STEEL Video, that FW has change the MkIV Armour sets slightly? I've googled it and found nothing.

Has anyone bought a set recently? I will be furious if they have changed them significantly. I need another 2 Tactical Squads to finish my PH Iron Hands .

Changed what exactly?

el edit.

Also, this isn't really the place to ask those questions.

Moving to dakka discussion, apologies for the delay in service.

My bad !

No problems, mea culpa forgot the rules of the rumour Thread.

Just to Clarify, I watched this Video...

http://youtu.be/1TgTytl3C_o?t=39m10s

Now he is discussing that the MkIV armour has been changed, I'm not sure about this. I don't mean to doubt him, but if it has seemed to go under the Radar so to speak. Maybe FW ran short of cast parts and just threw in anything in the bags to keep the Games Day UK chimps happy?

Anyone clarify this, before I lay down £110 for a further 2 Tactical Squads in MkIV Armour to match the ones above.

Mwnciboo, do you mean this set? http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/RED-SCORPIONS-VETERANS-WITH-VETERAN-SERGEANT-HAAS-UPGRADE-PACK.html

This was the first, readily-availably 'pre-heresy' (although it is labelled as Red Scorpion) set that FW released, and has been on sale for at least 3-4 years now.

No, I believe (and I am interpretting Brummy on the video above ) it is this set:-



and possible erronous cross over with this set.



Has possibly been changed slightly (I am going purely on what was said in the Video above). But again I cannot be sure.

Hence why I'm trying to find someone who can enlighten me or possibly has bought a set in the last few weeks and can confirm or dismiss this.

EDIT - Cannot find anything official or anything on google or other forums. The Community is usually all over this, so I cannot believe this has gone unnoticed. Hence me being sceptical on the Video, I think FW might have just accidentally (or even dilberately mixed up sets) it's even possible people on Games day mess around with them. I remember mine originals came in a Re-sealable small bag so could be opened and tampered with easily.

I do see a couple of differences between the packs, mainly that a couple of the helmets are different and the addition of the studded armour in places, but to be honest, the differences are minor and I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.

So there have been some minor alterations. The thing is the Stud's were on the MkV not the MkIV, this was further reinforced by the Book "Deliverance Lost" with the shift to MkVI "CORVUS".

Anyway that's good to know, I might swap them out so they can be spread out amongst those I already have.

Cheers Valkyrie.

EDIT - Valk any chance you could Photograph them and stick them up on here for Comparative purposes? I appreciate it would be a pain in the backside, but I for one would appreciate it.

I don't have any actual models with that armour I'm afraid, I was just going by the photos provided in the thread.

 mwnciboo wrote:
No, I believe (and I am interpretting Brummy on the video above ) it is this set:-



and possible cross over with this set.



Has possibly been changed slightly (I am going purely on what was said in the Video above). But again I cannot be sure.

Hence why I'm trying to find someone who can enlighten me or possibly has bought a set in the last few weeks and can confirm or dismiss this.

EDIT - Cannot find anything official or anything on google or other forums. The Community is usually all over this, so I cannot believe this has gone unnoticed. Hence me being sceptical on the Video, I think FW might have just accidentally (or even dilberately mixed up sets) it's even possible people on Games day mess around with them. I remember mine originals came in a Re-sealable small bag so could be opened and tampered with easily.

Funnily enough I ordered both these sets a week and a half ago to begin a World Eaters Heresy army. They arrived and are exactly as they are in the above photos. The Assault squad had the studs but the normal squad did not. If they had changed it I'm sure I would have got the "new" version in my order. My best guess is that the guy in the video got a mispack...

Yeah, I was thinking this was odd too.

One of those freak things you cannot explain i suppose.

I always thought Mk V started off as patches/replacement parts for Mk IV armor as the Heresy dragged on rather than being a wholesale replacement. So Mk IV would likely have been seen with the occassional studded bit or retrograde Mk II/III piece, especially in the Loyalist legions.

 Breotan wrote:
I always thought Mk V started off as patches/replacement parts for Mk IV armor as the Heresy dragged on rather than being a wholesale replacement. So Mk IV would likely have been seen with the occassional studded bit or retrograde Mk II/III piece, especially in the Loyalist legions.

I believe you're referring to the MkV Heresy Armour

I guess what I'm wondering is when does Mk IV become Mk V? After a single piece is replaced? When a majority of the suit is replaced?

Probably the latter I'd assume. I think the MkV was designed to be an ad-hoc design, created by the Raven Guard as an easier to manufacture version to help compensate their losses at Istvann. The MkIV was probably a completely different configuration alltogether.

Source: Deliverance Lost.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Probably the latter I'd assume. I think the MkV was designed to be an ad-hoc design, created by the Raven Guard as an easier to manufacture version to help compensate their losses at Istvann. The MkIV was probably a completely different configuration alltogether.

Source: Deliverance Lost.

This is partially true, it is the MkVI armour which is known as "CORVUS" e.g Latin for Raven because the Raven Guard did ther field tests of the Armour. In Deliverance Lost, they actually receive the MkVI (6) Armour not MkV (5), this is because (having read up on it) MkV wasn't a true armour mk. It was a stop gap measure, and MkVI (6) is actually a true next generation MkIV(4) as mkV(5) was an Ad Hoc mk that encapsulated all the Techmarine made/ Modified non-standard armour made during the Horus Heresy.

*Reads before posting* DId any of that make any sense? Source: Deliverance Lost and Lexicanum

Although I have to admire someone who wants to make a completely canon-accurate representation of Pre-Heresy mkIV, £110 is about 3-4 times what you could be paying if you are prepared to make something that is 90% or so accurate with a little work.

I think these guys are a great way of making the 'meat & veg' of an army, your core legion troopers, and then you can always buy the FW mkII and mkIII guys to scatter amongst squads, perhaps make veteran units and things like that. Certainly, I think it's worthwhile for anyone who is concerned about being able to make a Pre-Heresy army at a more reasonable cost.

If it's something you are interested in, I will explain:
1) Buy the 'Forge World MKIV Red Scorpion Veterans upgrade Pack' http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Space_Marines/Red_Scorpions/RED-SCORPIONS-VETERANS-WITH-VETERAN-SERGEANT-HAAS-UPGRADE-PACK.html
This gives you 10 of the mkIV heads and torsos (the most important bit!)
Price = £17. I usually sell the Red Scorpion shoulder pads on ebay and you will get at least £5-£7 back on them.

2) Buy legs, arms, shoulder pads and weapons from a bits website (there are many - bitsandkits.co.uk, bitzbox.co.uk, bitsbarn.com etc). You could just buy a tactical marine boxset, or a chaos one for that matter, but you will end up with some redundant parts. I usually buy mk7 legs, arms don't matter, normal shoulder pads and a mix of loyalist and chaos bolters. Average price for all of these bits you are looking at no more than £2 per marine.

3) For the backpack, simply buy a standard chaos pack and remove the 'arms', attaching the 'nozzle' bits directly to the body of the backpack. A simple conversion that takes 2 minutes. Again buy them from a bits website cheaply, and I believe you can even buy them as a pack direct from GW.

Optionals (depending on how much effort you want to put in)
- Adding 'studs' to one or other of the shoulder pads, can be done to just a standard pad (which cost about 7p )
I made a tutorial for making mkV armour, but you can use exactly the same method on just a single pad. http://eatersofworlds.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/mk5-armour-tutorial.html Again, takes about 5 minutes.

- Decals/logos. Bell of Lost Souls did a load of these years ago, just print from your computer onto decal paper. Here are the instructions, again very straightforward http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/07/tutorial-custom-decal-sheets.html
And as an example the World Eater ones I used http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/02/world-eaters-pre-heresy-logo-sheet.html

Not the best examples I have seen by any means, but some I made quickly and cheaply using this method:






I hope this is of some use! I might make a post actually in the main 40k section, as I think there are probably a lot of people turning green at the moment with wanting to make a Pre-Heresy army, but totalling up the cost of even a small 1500pt army and then turning white There are ways of doing it a lot cheaper and almost as effective I think.

Actually you don't even need to buy the helmet

I have a tutorial on making MK IV helmets: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/468738.page

What about the torsos? Use the torsos with the circular vent on their chests, available in the tactical squad box.

So, back on topic, what was the point of this thread?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
So, back on topic, what was the point of this thread?

I hope this is sarcasm, because otherwise you aren't getting how a Thread works.

READ The Original post following it down the page. This thread is specifically find out if FW has actually changed the design of their MkIV Armour sets as per a Rumour on the RED STEEL Video of Games Day.

Several people say so, but I haven't seen any photographic evidence of this yet. (some people are getting confused with the MkIV Assault marines but that is another issue).

It is specifically this set :-



I believe REGNAK is correct, but would like a second verification of this fact from some else who has bought a set of Mk IV from FW recently (Last 3-4 weeks).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Pacific Very nice.

I rather like what you have done, it's encapsulates the World Eater Noble Savage ethos.

I went with the IRON HANDS and decided because they were so close to the AD MECH they would have the latest kit and would have no problems with Spares and Supply hence my Army looking very Homogenous (no mixed armour Mk's or patched armour).



I cheaped out on the Sergeants by making them from Scratch, this actually saved me a fair bit especially as I used Old 2nd Edition Devastators to round out other models meaning for a Squad of 10, I need 8 Marines, Meaning 3 Tactical Squads need 24 Models rather than 30.

But as pointed out we are OT.

Anyone bought any Forge World MkIV Armour sets in the last month to verify that REGNAK is correct.

Why not give Forgeworld a ring and ask them?

That's actually not a bad idea, I just thought someone might be able to shed light on it without me having to make a Call.

*Reaches for Phone*

EDIT :-

DEFINITIVE ANSWER - YES.

Okay here is the explaination direct from FW Customer Services:-

"At Games Day 2012, FW showed the NEW MkIV MAXIMUS (LEGION) armour and put it on sale approx 6 weeks before the "OFFICIAL" Release. This is a slightly modified version of the Original Pre-heresy MkIV Maximus Armour including Battle Damage, more poses and armour patches. The actual new range of so called "LEGION" Armour sets will go live on the FW website in Late October/ Early November including new HQ's and specific units (SPACE MARINE LEGION CENTURIONS ???). The demand for the original sets remains high, so FW will continue to produce both sets of Armour and others too for the foreseeable future".

So bottomline, yes it has changed, but they will still produce the originals. Also we've got some nice goodies coming later this month. Maybe I should stick this in the rumour thread now I've got facts.

FW -

The MKIV regular marines are the same. They same legs/helmets/Pads

The MKIV ASSAULT marines however are really more of a combined look. The helmets are MKIV but two of the bodies reflect MKV reinforcement of the lower leg armor. The set comes with 1 set of MKII/III shoulder pauldrons.

In Canon... this is very reflective of the units as they move through the Heresy.

WH40KWIKIA" wrote:One design feature of Power Armour patterns Mark VI through Mark VIII is their extreme ruggedness and high level of adaptability; it is fairly common within most Space Marine Chapters to see a suit combining parts originally created for three or four different patterns of suits, salvaged from dead Battle-Brothers on the battlefield. Mark VII armour, in particular, was created with this simple modularity in mind.

The many different Loyalist Space Marine Chapters of the present utilise all these different Power Armour patterns in differing ratios. Some choose to equip their Astartes with the most advanced patterns of armour available to them, while others cherish the older patterns and seek to maintain them for as long as possible in a combat-ready state. It should be noted that the Mark I, II and III patterns of Power Armour are no longer in general usage by any Chapter's Battle Companies and are extremely rare relics of any Chapter lucky enough to still possess a complete suit of these types, though the Mark II and Mark III can be seen with slightly greater frequency among the Chaos Space Marines of the Traitor Legions. The Consecrators Chapter, one of the Successor Chapters of the Dark Angels that inherited much of the original Dark Angels Legion's equipment during the Second Founding, will actually avoid the use of any suits newer than the Mark VI, and thus appears on the field as a Space Marine Legion from the legendary days of the Horus Heresy. In many cases, only sections or portions of the more ancient patterns of armour remain, adapted to fit with more recent suits of Mark VI or Mark VII armour. However, even a single shoulder plate or gauntlet that has seen millennia of service and countless battles is a treasured relic of a Chapter that brings much honour to the Astartes who has earned the right to wear it.

The new kits up on forge world now.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/LEGION_MKIV_MAXIMUS_ARMOUR.html

Yes....Nice.

 jgemrich wrote:
FW -

The MKIV regular marines are the same. They same legs/helmets/Pads

The MKIV ASSAULT marines however are really more of a combined look. The helmets are MKIV but two of the bodies reflect MKV reinforcement of the lower leg armor. The set comes with 1 set of MKII/III shoulder pauldrons.

In Canon... this is very reflective of the units as they move through the Heresy.

I'm not sure you've understood what we are talking about, because I've tried to follow your post and cannot reconcile it. If you can clarify you point a bit? I'm sure it's me not quite getting what you are driving at. Sorry.

Essentially there are two forms of FW MkIV armour, the MkIV Maximus Set, and the MkIV LEGION Maximus Set.

With regards to Canon, well that is kind of meaningless as the HH Books (most specifically Deliverance Lost) have re-written parts of the Armour Canon and having read FW The Betrayal Book last night it also adds in further information on Armour mks and legion setups. It's really difficult to have a Canonical Discussion as it is in the process of being Ret-conned on a daily basis by FW releases. Give it a few months to calm down and all the 40k Wiki's, Lexicanum etc will catch up. The perils of a Universe that is continually re-interpreted.

EDIT- This constant Ret-conning of the Universe is the reason the Imperium loses so many ships, they depart to get to a destination and 2 months into the Journey the place they are going gets removed from the Fluff and the ship appears in a place that no longer exists, therefore successfully divides by Zero, Instantly achieves a Zen like understanding of entropy and is lost to the ether.

Yep! Today's FW release has them in new poses and slightly different chest pieces. Very cool!

The Legion mkIV and the assault mkIV also have a nearly-mkVII helmet.

 mwnciboo wrote:
Yes....Nice.

 jgemrich wrote:
FW -

The MKIV regular marines are the same. They same legs/helmets/Pads

The MKIV ASSAULT marines however are really more of a combined look. The helmets are MKIV but two of the bodies reflect MKV reinforcement of the lower leg armor. The set comes with 1 set of MKII/III shoulder pauldrons.

In Canon... this is very reflective of the units as they move through the Heresy.

I'm not sure you've understood what we are talking about, because I've tried to follow your post and cannot reconcile it. If you can clarify you point a bit? I'm sure it's me not quite getting what you are driving at. Sorry.

I think I followed the question in the original post quite well. Which you again outlined in the post 2 above mine.

mwnciboo wrote:Anyone bought any Forge World MkIV Armour sets in the last month to verify that REGNAK is correct.

The issue being had FW change the MKIV armour set (product code : IA-ISM-I-019). The answer to that question is NO. And had anyone bought one recently. I just received a set in the mail abouit 2 weeks prior to the time of your post. I think you indicated that you'd be pissed if you couldn't finish off your Iron hands such.

Essentially there are two forms of FW MkIV armour, the MkIV Maximus Set, and the MkIV LEGION Maximus Set.

As of yesterday that is true. But at the time of my post, there was no such release of the MKIV Legion Maximus set (product code : 99590101277) on the website.

However, I did indicate that at the time of my post there was a set of MKIV assault armor (product code: product code : 99590101254) that intermixed armour as parts of Canon permitted.

So your original post was Can you still get (product code : IA-ISM-I-019)and have you received one recently my answer stands at yes and I have.

With regards to Canon, well that is kind of meaningless as the HH Books (most specifically Deliverance Lost) have re-written parts of the Armour Canon and having read FW The Betrayal Book last night it also adds in further information on Armour mks and legion setups. It's really difficult to have a Canonical Discussion as it is in the process of being Ret-conned on a daily basis by FW releases. Give it a few months to calm down and all the 40k Wiki's, Lexicanum etc will catch up. The perils of a Universe that is continually re-interpreted.

I'm glad you have new resources to refute my quote. I was just trying to be helpful in your aquisition of sets of armour that matched (since you were obviously having an issue w/ FW if you could not). But now that you bring it up please quote from Betrayal what has changed in the armour canan as my Betrayal has yet to arrive on this side of the pond (Damn me for getting the Spartan at the same time).

EDIT- This constant Ret-conning of the Universe is the reason the Imperium loses so many ships, they depart to get to a destination and 2 months into the Journey the place they are going gets removed from the Fluff and the ship appears in a place that no longer exists, therefore successfully divides by Zero, Instantly achieves a Zen like understanding of entropy and is lost to the ether.

I am obviously the one lost....

The whole point of my post was that this had filtered out on the Grape vine, I didn't just pluck this out of the Ether and make this up. I was trying to verify whether the rumour that I had heard on a Video on the internet was true.

Please don't be offended, that I was confused by your post. Don't get so offended and defensive or use sarcasm like "I am the one lost....", the bottomline of this thread was to find out if it was true and secondly to find out if they would still produce the old stuff, a resounding yes to both.

The truth is that FW screwed up by selling the LEGION ARMOUR sets at Games Day without telling people clearly what they were doing with the PRE-HERESY and HERESY Armour sets. Resulting in the confusion in the RED STEEL video and hence my concern. The problem fundamentally came from some people saying yes it has changed, and others refuting it. As it has turned out FW now have two sets.

I have now established there are two sets, where originally from the Video it was said that it was a new replacement set. Therefore between us all, we have found the truth of the matter so this thread has served it's purpose.

So we can bury the hatchet?