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I'm going to go ahead and give everyone a heads up to stay on topic and be polite.

 cincydooley wrote:
Whilst I appreciate the discussion at hand and think its worthwhile, perhaps it's best to the it elsewhere from this thread. I know I'm not as seasoned a member as some of y'all, but I think Mierce should still have the opportunity to post in this thread their new releases without discussion of the previous business being the focal point.

Certainly they have every 'right' to post news of their releases. It's helpful for people to know just who they are dealing with, though, and Mierce would be naive to not expect people to bring it up. You are correct though in that extended discussion of MG's business practices is probably better done in the thread over on the discussion board.

 insaniak wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Whilst I appreciate the discussion at hand and think its worthwhile, perhaps it's best to the it elsewhere from this thread. I know I'm not as seasoned a member as some of y'all, but I think Mierce should still have the opportunity to post in this thread their new releases without discussion of the previous business being the focal point.

Certainly they have every 'right' to post news of their releases. It's helpful for people to know just who they are dealing with, though, and Mierce would be naive to not expect people to bring it up. You are correct though in that extended discussion of MG's business practices is probably better done in the thread over on the discussion board.

Couldn't agree more. I think after Mierces second explanation is where we'd have been best to cut off. I realize giving them a second chance is giving them a BIG second chance, but I hope the fact that Mierce did fulfill back orders from the MG fiasco, coupled with the empassioned response from them here, should at least warrant them the good college try at that second chance. :-)

The undisputed fact of the matter is that up until the entity ceased trading, an entity over which Mr. Rob Lane exercised authority and control engaged in a pattern of fraudulent selling. Specifically, I would say that Mr. Lane and his associated entities engaged in, as defined by the Fraud Act 2006, 1) Fraud by False Representation, additionally and alternatively 2) Fraud by Failing to Disclose Information, additionally and alternatively 3) Fraud by Abuse of Position.

It is therefor my (personal) opinion that the actions of Mr. Lane constitute a series of criminal offenses.

While I feel for the people that were innocently associated with Mr.Lane, the fact remains that it is a corporate entity operating under the auspices of Mr. Lane, an individual who I believe has committed upon the consumers a very large fraud.

TLR, If you want to buy from this company, take advantage of all possible protections. If ever you are tempted to patronize them, do so warily.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing this conversation happen every time they post a new mini...

Yeah... I bought a model from Maelstrom Games, and it was pretty good. But regarding this:

Mierce Miniatures wrote:Mierce's future remains very much under Rob's stewardship - he will write the game, he is the guy with the vision who will bring the stuff in his head to life.

I don't know how the OP can ask users to trust the very same owner who just left so many out funds and out to dry.

I certainly won't be giving Mierce Miniatures any business. You can only burn so many bridges in such a small community as the hobby industry until you've run out of them. If the OP was honest, he'd know that remaining in Rob Lane's employment and under his "stewardship" and "vision" is going to mean that many folks will not (and probably should not, for many reasons) support him.

 cincydooley wrote:
Couldn't agree more. I think after Mierces second explanation is where we'd have been best to cut off. I realize giving them a second chance is giving them a BIG second chance, but I hope the fact that Mierce did fulfill back orders from the MG fiasco, coupled with the empassioned response from them here, should at least warrant them the good college try at that second chance. :-)

I see that my response took long enough to write as to end up mostly redundant, but I can only say, even if you're inclined to " warrant them the good college try at that second chance. :-)", stay on top of your options. Whether they be the period of disputing a charge on paypal or the time limit on protection with your credit card, be vigilant.

 Buzzsaw wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Couldn't agree more. I think after Mierces second explanation is where we'd have been best to cut off. I realize giving them a second chance is giving them a BIG second chance, but I hope the fact that Mierce did fulfill back orders from the MG fiasco, coupled with the empassioned response from them here, should at least warrant them the good college try at that second chance. :-)

I see that my response took long enough to write as to end up mostly redundant, but I can only say, even if you're inclined to " warrant them the good college try at that second chance. :-)", stay on top of your options. Whether they be the period of disputing a charge on paypal or the time limit on protection with your credit card, be vigilant.

No, I'm right with you. Like I said, I'm out about $30 bucks from MG, but I took that as a calculated risk and new I may lose it. As it stands, I got about half of a $50 order which actually amounted to about $300 worth of Dark Age product. Like I said, It was a calculated risk and I still more or less came out on top despite "losing" that $30 bucks.

And I'll be honest, most of my willingness to try out patronizing Mierce is that the minis really are that good.

From our website news article ..... http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=new&ref=245

Uuthüll is joined by three more new releases for January, too - another unpronouncable yet incredibly cool Dyndraig warrior for the Brythoniaid, Clundwr; the astonishingly mad three-headed Hydrar of � dron known as Hirakoth, for the Khthones; and the first of our Ax-Drunes, Arthyen of Carn Maen who bashes heads for Kernunnos. You can purchase all of these incredible miniatures right now!


Pronounced 'Klin-doo-er', Clundwr is another superb Dyndraig warrior for the Brythoniaid and we especially like his enormous, nasty-looking and quite possibly very painful weapon. Ahem. There's one more to come in Galhwch's unit of five, all of which concepted up by the sublimely talented Christophe Madura and realised in miniature form by the slightly crazy (but eminently loveable) Roberto Chaudon.



We hesitate a little to say it, but we think Uuthüll is Daniel Cockersell's finest work for us to date. With the concept drawn by Stefan Kopinski, the idea of a Kraken slaughtering Baalor's enemies on land captured both artists' imagination and the result of their endeavours over the past few months is something that simply beggars belief. It is an enormous creature, matching Krull in height if not in bulk, but is far more intricate and - well, insane - than everyone's favourite denizen of Infernus. Uuthüll is another masterpiece, another miniature that can proudly sit amongst the best in the world. We're trying to be a bit modest about him, but to be honest it's very difficult! Suffice to say, we think he will be on any discerning monster-maker's Christmas list both this year and the next. Watch out for Ben Komets' work on him in the new year, too!


Sale page http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_bry_gwy_min_504_000













For sale here http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_fmr_blr_mbs_852_000


When we first saw Christophe Madura's art - based on our concept of a three-headed Gorgonar - we couldn't believe our eyes. What we thought was a fairly difficult ask was brought to life far better than we could have possibly hoped and Stéphane Nguyen has worked wonders with his sculpt - so much so that we think this fella is Stéphane's best miniature for us to date. Hirakoth is an amazing miniature, full of detail and care and possibly unique in wargaming; we don't think we've ever seen another figure quite like it, although he will soon be followed by his mates.












For sale here http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_kth_hyd_min_101_000

Another month, another Ysian release - and there's plenty more to come for the sons of Kernunnos, for Arthyen of Carn Maen is the first of our Drune infantry, a Champion of the Ax-Drunes who, funnily enough, take massive great double-handed axes into battle. Sculpted by a newcomer to our range - the very talented Juan Navarro Pérez - and brilliantly drawn by Danny Cruz, Arthyen heralds a bit of a new dawn for us because more and more man-sized miniatures will soon find their way to a battlefield near you. About time, too!







For sale here http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/index.php?act=pro&pre=mrm_dkl_ysn_kys_inf_101_000

And a handy scale shot of this set of releases



Order now and you'll get them for Christmas!
All of the superb miniatures mentioned above are available to pre-order right now from this very website (and many others these days), and they will be officially released on the 12th of January. However, as it's Christmas, we've decided that any orders made before his official release date will be sent out - so if you order Uuthüll now, we'll ship him before Xmas so if you live in the UK (maybe elsewhere too!) and don't leave it too late you will get him in time for Santa!

Also remember we have retailers and distributors across North America and Europe who will be stocking the above minis soon!

Some interesting and very well done sculpts but..... with all the flaming donkey poop of MG I wouldn't touch these with a 10ft pole. Lane wronged a lot of people and I won't supprt any company he's a part of, much less if he's the owner of said company.

The minis are great but the hard truth is that there's more to a purchasing decision than just how a mini looks. I'd prefer to invest in other companies that understand the concept of integrity and don't leave their customers hanging.

 paulson games wrote:
Some interesting and very well done sculpts but..... with all the flaming donkey poop of MG I wouldn't touch these with a 10ft pole. Lane wronged a lot of people and I won't supprt any company he's a part of, much less if he's the owner of said company.

The minis are great but the hard truth is that there's more to a purchasing decision than just how a mini looks. I'd prefer to invest in other companies that understand the concept of integrity and don't leave their customers hanging.

While it is certainly no 3rd party tau weaponry, I quite like the clundwr.

@Mierce - what are the chances of getting one in the US by Christmas?

Any chance of a distributer in Australia.
Love the Octopus model...

One question, is there a chance to make bases for the models. Most of the models I have really struggled to base (especially the largest ones... looking at you KRULL!)

As for MG... yeah, guys if you want to talk about that... go to another thread. These are still brilliant models, if you don't want them that's fine, but at least tell them if they are building models you like if you are posting on this thread.

@Mierce - what are the chances of getting one in the US by Christmas?

Last postage date for guaranteed arrival by Xmas from UK to USA was the 10th of Dec so we couldn't now say 100% it would arrive though there would be a chance. We'd certainly ship same day the order was placed on a weekdayand it reached us by 3pm UK time (EST 10am). We wil be working into next week, though will have less staff on from next week over Xmas as our staff have racked up the overtime in late Nov/early Dec and deserve a break over the Xmas period! I live about 100 yards from work however so I will pop in regularly to keep things ticking over.

One question, is there a chance to make bases for the models. Most of the models I have really struggled to base (especially the largest ones... looking at you KRULL!)

Most of our minis are now provided with our own brand of round-lipped bases for use in our upcoming skirmish game. One or two (Basilisk, Mjagnir, Keirioc-Cro, Kadamstar, ok that's four!) are awaiting a larger base size that's in the works. Krull for example now ships with a 120mm round base. We do make some square bases (and rectangular!) that I will look at adding to our site in the near future. These are 40, 50 and 100mm square and also 25x50,50x75 and 50 x 100. they may be more suitable for people with alternative uses and if requested in the order notes via our own site we can swap out the round base for a close-sized square/rectangular one.

We'd love an Australian distributor and although we don't have one yet we would be keen to work with one. Same goes for any distributors really, especially the more distant ones as shipping overseas can take time and be expensive so we'd prefer to bulk ship via UPS to a local dist/retailer so it's better for everyone.

Cincydooley, the problem is that when a previously trusted online seller bails on the community it makes it that much harder for every other seller out there. When somebody has been burned (regardless of who did it) it damages the willingness of people to trust purchasing from other businesses online.

The impact of events like this are pretty heavy on the community. If a large company like MG can up and fleece their customers, then what cause is there to place trust in the little guys?

Clundwr is holding his weapon improperly. He (it?) is holding it in a pose as if he is attempting to swing it at a foe, but he is holding both hands too far up the shaft of the weapon. If he were to swing it, it would likely catch his left hand side on the follow through.

The left hand should be lower on the haft acting as the fulcrum, with the other posed further up, around the two thirds section, ready to drop along the shaft as he swings, giving momentum, positioning and weight to the strike.

Just thought I would point that out.

What is the deal with the large gaps in the Hirakoth's heads?

And maybe remove the huge mould line on the left side of the closed-jaw head before taking the picture

 Fenriswulf wrote:
Clundwr is holding his weapon improperly. He (it?) is holding it in a pose as if he is attempting to swing it at a foe, but he is holding both hands too far up the shaft of the weapon. If he were to swing it, it would likely catch his left hand side on the follow through.

The left hand should be lower on the haft acting as the fulcrum, with the other posed further up, around the two thirds section, ready to drop along the shaft as he swings, giving momentum, positioning and weight to the strike.

Just thought I would point that out.

I just see it that his opponent is trying to get in close so he choked up on the weapon.

 neiltj1 wrote:

 Fenriswulf wrote:
Clundwr is holding his weapon improperly. He (it?) is holding it in a pose as if he is attempting to swing it at a foe, but he is holding both hands too far up the shaft of the weapon. If he were to swing it, it would likely catch his left hand side on the follow through.

The left hand should be lower on the haft acting as the fulcrum, with the other posed further up, around the two thirds section, ready to drop along the shaft as he swings, giving momentum, positioning and weight to the strike.

Just thought I would point that out.

I just see it that his opponent is trying to get in close so he choked up on the weapon.

I'm reading it as him ripping something's guts out. So he's pulling back and over his shoulder.

nice mini's what scale are they?

 xcasex wrote:
nice mini's what scale are they?

They're 28mm. Work very well with other popular fantasy battle games If one was so inclined.

 RiTides wrote:
Yeah... I bought a model from Maelstrom Games, and it was pretty good. But regarding this:

Mierce Miniatures wrote:Mierce's future remains very much under Rob's stewardship - he will write the game, he is the guy with the vision who will bring the stuff in his head to life.

I don't know how the OP can ask users to trust the very same owner who just left so many out funds and out to dry.

I certainly won't be giving Mierce Miniatures any business. You can only burn so many bridges in such a small community as the hobby industry until you've run out of them. If the OP was honest, he'd know that remaining in Rob Lane's employment and under his "stewardship" and "vision" is going to mean that many folks will not (and probably should not, for many reasons) support him.

Yeah, all this "Rob Lane is actually a good bloke, and he has a family too" stuff doesn't really counterbalance the months of fraudulent "warehouse moving sale" and all the money they sucked in with no intention of fulfilling people's orders. You guys have some nice figures, too, and I bought a number of them before the dark times. Can't really buy any more, unless perhaps someone is selling them second-hand. Sorry.

Okay I never intended to get into this discussion wrg to Rob Lane, but it bothers me.
Has any of you that have been wronged actually tried emailing, otherwise contacting him personally or for that matter filed some form of lawsuit against the man?
I get the "hurr durr rob lane herp derp" but are there any solid facts?

with the internet its quite easy to get the hatetrain rolling and being someone who was accused by the other side in a similar situation, I actually sued and was cleared of wrongdoing (I was the buyer, not the seller, i was however accused of not paying for the product, which I did, and it was broken)

Furthermore, mobbing up on someone due to what to me is more or less unsubstantiated is bothersome.
I like the sculpt, From what i've read up on it seems the company that did the right thing wrg to the outstanding orders were mierce minis.

You can't really transfer blame left, right and then ruin their rep.
do something about it if they are proven to be up to the same shenanigans again, not before.

Don't be silly, do some research. People have lost money. There's no transfer of blame when the same guy runs both companies. I don't blame anyone for not waiting to see if he runs this company in to the ground before they are cautious.

 xcasex wrote:
Okay I never intended to get into this discussion wrg to Rob Lane, but it bothers me.
Has any of you that have been wronged actually tried emailing, otherwise contacting him personally or for that matter filed some form of lawsuit against the man?
I get the "hurr durr rob lane herp derp" but are there any solid facts?

with the internet its quite easy to get the hatetrain rolling and being someone who was accused by the other side in a similar situation, I actually sued and was cleared of wrongdoing (I was the buyer, not the seller, i was however accused of not paying for the product, which I did, and it was broken)

Furthermore, mobbing up on someone due to what to me is more or less unsubstantiated is bothersome.
I like the sculpt, From what i've read up on it seems the company that did the right thing wrg to the outstanding orders were mierce minis.

You can't really transfer blame left, right and then ruin their rep.
do something about it if they are proven to be up to the same shenanigans again, not before.

Would a 50+ page thread in Dakka discussions count as enough substance for you? It's not that a few people got stiffed by MG and hence Rob Lane, it's quite a lot. I even know some personally and when your hobby scene is as small as mine, that's saying something.

 xcasex wrote:
Okay I never intended to get into this discussion wrg to Rob Lane, but it bothers me.
Has any of you that have been wronged actually tried emailing, otherwise contacting him personally or for that matter filed some form of lawsuit against the man?
I get the "hurr durr rob lane herp derp" but are there any solid facts?

with the internet its quite easy to get the hatetrain rolling and being someone who was accused by the other side in a similar situation, I actually sued and was cleared of wrongdoing (I was the buyer, not the seller, i was however accused of not paying for the product, which I did, and it was broken)

Furthermore, mobbing up on someone due to what to me is more or less unsubstantiated is bothersome.
I like the sculpt, From what i've read up on it seems the company that did the right thing wrg to the outstanding orders were mierce minis.

You can't really transfer blame left, right and then ruin their rep.
do something about it if they are proven to be up to the same shenanigans again, not before.

Quite a number of people have tried to contact them and go no response at all in regard to their questions. Lawsuits are useless now that Maelstrom is insolvent and you get in line behind all the other creditors who have larger amounts outstanding. Plus there's that 50 page thread that's been running for a few months now about what baked goods they may or may not have been taking (apparently they quite were on the take there).

Thanks for playing though.

@plastictrees, what it comes down to isnt ownership, but corporate policy, operations, current ceo etc. it goes to intent to defraud.
is he the owner? well then, he bears some of the blame, was he operationally aware? was he part and parcel involved with the day to day operations?
if yes to all of the above, he's your guy. but also, how long was the company insolvent, why were they accepting orders, these are questions that need to be answered & short of a lawsuit these are not answers you will get.

@Sining, first of all, i'm really sorry that people lost money in this. but there's a big but in there, its unsubstantiated rumourmongering unless people individually filed their receipts. other than that, read what i wrote to plastictrees.

I'll be buying some of the minis in feb, I guess i'll get to experience their level of service then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

12thRonin wrote:

 xcasex wrote:
Okay I never intended to get into this discussion wrg to Rob Lane, but it bothers me.
Has any of you that have been wronged actually tried emailing, otherwise contacting him personally or for that matter filed some form of lawsuit against the man?
I get the "hurr durr rob lane herp derp" but are there any solid facts?

with the internet its quite easy to get the hatetrain rolling and being someone who was accused by the other side in a similar situation, I actually sued and was cleared of wrongdoing (I was the buyer, not the seller, i was however accused of not paying for the product, which I did, and it was broken)

Furthermore, mobbing up on someone due to what to me is more or less unsubstantiated is bothersome.
I like the sculpt, From what i've read up on it seems the company that did the right thing wrg to the outstanding orders were mierce minis.

You can't really transfer blame left, right and then ruin their rep.
do something about it if they are proven to be up to the same shenanigans again, not before.

Quite a number of people have tried to contact them and go no response at all in regard to their questions. Lawsuits are useless now that Maelstrom is insolvent and you get in line behind all the other creditors who have larger amounts outstanding. Plus there's that 50 page thread that's been running for a few months now about what baked goods they may or may not have been taking (apparently they quite were on the take there).

Thanks for playing though.

a forumthread is insubstantial, its a forum on the internet anyone can post whatever. And by your answer re: insolvency, I guess Sweden has it better whereas you can still sue for fraud if you can prove intent.

and .. baked goods? do I look like marie antoinette? pffft.

Maybe you should read the thread instead of saying the claims are unsubstantiated. There's even a statement in it from MG where they pretty much say those who placed orders with them are out of luck and they took new orders hoping to be able to repay their debt and be able to process the old orders; not the new ones mind you.

Saying we need receipts for everything is ridiculous. Are you saying everyone in the 50+ thread is lying about MG stiffing them. So my friend didn't really lose his 30gbp from MG
because he didn't show me the receipt?

Its up to you if you want to order from mierce, however don't belittle everyone else who's been burnt by MG by saying their claims are unsubstantiated.

Also, its not like MG is a huge company in the scheme of things. If the owner Rob Lane wasn't aware of what's happening, I'd be very surprised. And if he wasn't, what's that going to say about the management of Mierce anyway since its the same guy at the helm

@Sining, kindly notice my first sentence i wrote in my reply to you.
Furthermore, companies go insolvent, it happens quite often, it effects peoples lives way beyond the scope of 30 quid. lives are ruined to the adverse effects of a competetive market.

regarding management, an owner has operational liaisons called managers that are a form of trustee, these people handle the day to day management of a company. Now I don't know what Mr Lane's job was within the company, or if he were involved in the managerial aspects, but as far as my own experience goes with companies in the SME range, it could very well be that he handled a whole other aspect of the company, like concept development.

It's all really nillywilly at this point, but I'd like to again stress that Mierce isn't MG, and if their efforts are sincere, which it is my understanding that they are -- Mierce took the backlog of mierce products ordered through MG and sent them out, ever heard of a company tangentially involved ever do that before? -- I just don't know what Lane could do short of declaring bankruptcy for Mierce that would satisfy people effected by the backorder at MG.

And that's all I have to say about this, in this thread, if you'd like to continue the discussion my inbox is open and i'd prefer it if you read through it twice before replying.

I'd like to point out mierce can hardly be considered tangentially involved when its owned by the same person who owns MG

Also, its not like Mierce is doing this to be saints. They're trying to build good will to their brand instead of burning all their bridges. They've already been tarnished by association with Rob Lane, this is pretty much the only way they can use to build good will quickly because people will say "hey at least mierce sent me my miniatures" without thinking too deply on it. Without this gesture, even less people would buy from them.

I really like these minis as usual, will have to pick some up in the new year.

Could we keep the witch hunt to the witch hunt thread instead please ?