Mierce Miniatures Darklands Ongoing News and Rumors Thread! Darklands Rulebook ships on April 18!

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**Mierce Miniatures**

decker_cky wrote:@Mierce Miniatures: I think it would make sense to list the unit stretches in your updates from the main page. Makes it seem like there's less jumps needed for a small stretch.

You've lost me - they are already on the main page? On the stretch goal map too? Or did you mean something else...?

decker_cky wrote:Quick question: Shipping wave 4 is listed as mandatory. Do you really have to buy that if you're only wanting models from the back catalogue?

No, you just purchase the Wave 0 shipment item instead; it's the same price so it doesn't really matter.

decker_cky wrote:Also...not sure listing this campaign as funding werewolves really makes sense, since they've been in both of the previous campaigns already.

The Werwulfas of this project (Eoric's pack) are "man-wolves" and on 40mm bases, being around 40mm to the eye. They wield weapons, bear shields and wear armour.

The Wælwulfas from the original project were once Werwulfas, but we changed their name to make them sound nastier. They are more devolved than the Werwulfas and do not use weapons or armour any more - just their claws! They have also grown since their days of being a werwulf; they are on 50mm bases and are 50mm to the eye.

You must understand that the wolves of Mierce devolve from man to wolf, and cannot change back; thus, each wælwulf was originally a werwulf, and indeed a man before that.

The progression goes like this: man -> werwulf (man-wolf) -> wælwulf (slaughter-wolf) -> guthwulf (war-wolf) -> mægenwulf (mighty-wolf). Thus, Cnebba the Mægenwulf was originally a guthwulf...

I hope that makes sense!

decker_cky wrote:Seeing as the Oghurs were at 10k, I'm hoping Oghurithne are the unit following the Abhorrents, around 90k-100k.

You'd be hoping correctly ;o)

Hope that helps.

**Bossk_Hogg**

SavageRobby wrote:

Wow, thanks everyone. That was a pretty strong (and quick) response.

I went over to the WarStore, and they had better prices than EBay or FRPGames. Somehow almost $200 just magically got charged to my card, and I have Mierce miniatures on their way to me soon.

Now - next question. There seems to be a fair amount of ambivalence about backing the Kickstarters vs. ordering from retail. Comparing the prices I just saw at the Warstore (granted, not for the full range) - this latest KS doesn't seem to offer a lot in the way of value, especially considering shipping. Do I have the wrong impression?

For what it's worth, I'm not sure if The Warstore is getting anything new in, so their prices might not be available going forward. Mierce is essentially the same as FRPGames, without reaming you for shipping like those guys do, which just goes to show how terribly FRPGames shipping rates are...

So how does this 20% off previous products work? I'd missed KS 2, can I pick those guys up for 20% off retail...essentially an extra 15% off Mierce's prices?

**decker_cky**

Mierce Miniatures wrote:
decker_cky wrote:@Mierce Miniatures: I think it would make sense to list the unit stretches in your updates from the main page. Makes it seem like there's less jumps needed for a small stretch.

You've lost me - they are already on the main page? On the stretch goal map too? Or did you mean something else...?

This information never appears on the update page, even though funding the corpse takers is the current stretch goal:

http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/ks2.5/stretch_goals_052500_corpse_takers_large.jpg

No, you just purchase the Wave 0 shipment item instead; it's the same price so it doesn't really matter.

Might want to change this line on the project page:
"Shipment Wave 4 (Mandatory): November 2014. You MUST purchase this shipping in post-project management. This shipment wave will include all of the Units stretch goals."

decker_cky wrote:Seeing as the Oghurs were at 10k, I'm hoping Oghurithne are the unit following the Abhorrents, around 90k-100k.

You'd be hoping correctly ;o)

Hope that helps.

Awesome. Seeing Bagseg and the other Oghurithne to date has me sold on a unit.

Thanks for the quick replies!

**Alpharius**

I wonder how much a unit of Oghurithne will cost though!

**Mierce Miniatures**

@Alpharius - they'll be £64 at gold prices.

**Alpharius**

I wonder no longer - thanks!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Spotted by one of the KS commenters and so good I had to cross post it

from Karol Rudyk on Putty & Paint (http://www.puttyandpaint.com/projects/4307)

**zedmeister**

New concept for a Dynwocor posted to the comments - (A jabberock man if you will):

**Zond**

Is it bad I just want a pledge level or two that gives me an army instead of all the things? :-P

**RiTides**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Spotted by one of the KS commenters and so good I had to cross post it

from Karol Rudyk on Putty & Paint (http://www.puttyandpaint.com/projects/4307)

That's awesome! As is the above concept art. Is there going to be a unit of those, and what size are they?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zond wrote:
Is it bad I just want a pledge level or two that gives me an army instead of all the things? :-P

Exactly...

**zedmeister**

RiTides wrote:

That's awesome! As is the above concept art. Is there going to be a unit of those, and what size are they?

Yes - that's the bannerman of the unit. Reckon they'll be a unit of 5. Also, they'll probably be 60mm high on 60mm bases - similar to this fella seen in KS2: http://www.mierce-miniatures.com/ks2/stretch_goals_85000_mag_ap_mag.jpg

**Alpharius**

RiTides wrote:
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Spotted by one of the KS commenters and so good I had to cross post it

from Karol Rudyk on Putty & Paint (http://www.puttyandpaint.com/projects/4307)

That's awesome! As is the above concept art. Is there going to be a unit of those, and what size are they?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Zond wrote:
Is it bad I just want a pledge level or two that gives me an army instead of all the things? :-P

Exactly...

Pledge for "The Gold Spot" at £100, get an extra £10 for that and every £100 you pledge during the campaign, pick the unit(s) you want, get a free figure with that unit, and spend the rest on Mierce's website during the "Pledge Manager" phase, getting 20% off nearly everything?

**Mierce Miniatures**

Last time, we added hosts to give backers the opportunity to get "an army"; but then people didn't want certain miniatures out of those hosts, criticised the choices we made, and all the different hosts became very confusing over time. Fair enough, let's change that for next time, said we.

This time, we give backers the opportunity to choose a unit they want, a free commander for that unit too, £10 back per £100 pledged to spend in our store, and 20% off our existing range to add to that army. It's all about choice.

Am I not seeing the wood for the trees?

At the end of the day we're trying to give people what they want; so I'll ask you. RiTides/Zond - what is it exactly that you want from this project? Is there anything I can do for you to help? What would you want to change? What don't you understand?

I'm being serious - if there's something that I can add to the project that would help you two guys, and suit what we're trying to do, I'll add it.

**Zond**

To be honest the whole gold bronze thing is Greek to me, or should that be Atlantes? It just reads as unnecessarily Byzantine to me (resisting second faction pun). So let's say I do throw a couple hundred at this project getting me X or Y army at discount and I pick and choose units I'll have no guidance. Unless I want pure display pieces, which is certainly viable, there's no easily displayed information on playstyles or what the model you're buying can do.

If you want to be sarcastic then claim you're being serious, that's fine. My own fault for engaging the bait. I understand we're not going to get first kickstarter style tooth and claw bundles, but some guidance on how to use the pledges to buy things to play the game rules we kickstarted last time might help.

**JWBS**

What's wrong with this for guidance? https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/001/789/727/a6b26b24f04c0573a3c5548b478bc2a9_large.jpg?1395658265 seems pretty clear to me :/

**Mierce Miniatures**

@Zond - I don't think it's Byzantine, although I suppose I would say that.

- Pledging for a Bronze reward allows you to purchase items at bronze prices.
- Pledging for a Gold reward allows you to purchase items at gold prices.

Fairly obviously, it's designed to tempt you to go for gold prices!

If it's play style or guidance you need, and you think the project's lacking that, then that's fair enough - but you're the very first person to say that to me and, if I'm honest, it's the first time I've really thought about it.

It's something I can do, of course, add that information to the project; and maybe I should (you've certainly made me think - there's always room for improvement); there's a ton of reading on there already though, and it's also information that you can just ask for, here, on the forums, or on the comments.

So, let's go down the personal route for now (I may add more information to the project later).

Which army are you interested in? What do you want me to tell you about them? Have you played the game at all, so I can gauge what you know?

Let me know and I'll endeavour to answer you.

Cheers

**zedmeister**

I think it's more like giving an idea on how a typical force looks for each given Kindred? For example;

1 General
2 Commanders (including Sorcerer)
2 Infantry units of 10-20 individuals each
2 Monstrous Infantry
1 Monstrous Beast

**decker_cky**

I think this campaign is a lot more friendly to current customers, but the Darklands universe can be a bit tough to understand for potential customers. Last KS, I didn't really get much because the best deals that caught my eye included models that I didn't want.

I do think the 20% off + £10 per £100 is a bit odd on initial glance, but I see how it's a push to get people to pledge higher, and a push to get people to pledge during the kickstarter rather than later.

I think some starter sets for new players including quickstarter rules would be handy to let players interested in the game dip their feet in, and to show them what goes together (the Mierce website is a bit tough to navigate until you know what you're looking for). Probably becomes a lot more realistic to do proper starter sets when plastic infantry gets produced.

------------

Speaking of plastics, have you seen the kingdoms of death plastics?
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2014/03/kingdom-death-pinups-of-death-unboxed.html

I'd love to see Mierce infantry in plastic of that quality. If Mierce could do one great plastic kit to demonstrate the quality they can achieve, then a kickstarter to exclusively fund plastics, I think it could be a huge success.

**SavageRobby**

I kind of know how Zond feels, but I didn't back either of the first two Kickstarters. My guess is going back to those (or finding a copy of the Quickstart rules) is a good place to start. I've referred back to the other Kickstarter projects a couple of times to understand what the starter packs consisted of.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

**Alpharius**

I think Zed's hit on something here!

zedmeister wrote:
I think it's more like giving an idea on how a typical force looks for each given Kindred? For example;

1 General
2 Commanders (including Sorcerer)
2 Infantry units of 10-20 individuals each
2 Monstrous Infantry
1 Monstrous Beast

So, maybe we find out what Kindred is most attractive to (X), then build an army based on that, and then show how much to pledge now, and what to select?

**razormage**

Orlando, thanks for the rule/musters link consolidation! That's highly useful.
Basically, you need a Commander. You'll need at least one Mainstay unit. That's generally the unit type that fits with the commander. If you have Cearl (a Waelwulf), it's Waelwulfs. If you've got Kraan (a Tain of Baalor) it's Warriors of Baalor.
After that, the Ubiquity (which acts as force org) gets a little complicated; you get unlimited Mainstay units, can take quite a few Common (usually elite infantry), a couple of Uncommon (medium sized monsters, monstrous infantry, and most commanders), and one or two Rare (big monsters and elite commanders). The specific number you can take depends on game size.
An Encounter game (500 gold, 4x4 table) allows up to 4 Common choices, 3 Uncommon, and 2 Rare.
Each model also has an Authority value, and the total under a commander cannot exceed his Authority. If it does, he needs to bring another Commander (whose Authority doesn't count) to control those models. Above 500 points, you'll require more than one (and possibly three or four) commanders. Fortunately, support models like wizards and army standards are commanders, so they fill utility roles as well.
So not only do you have to keep within a force organization, you also have to ensure you have enough Authority to command all the units you've brought.

**zedmeister**

Alpharius wrote:
I think Zed's hit on something here!

zedmeister wrote:
I think it's more like giving an idea on how a typical force looks for each given Kindred? For example;

1 General
2 Commanders (including Sorcerer)
2 Infantry units of 10-20 individuals each
2 Monstrous Infantry
1 Monstrous Beast

So, maybe we find out what Kindred is most attractive to (X), then build an army based on that, and then show how much to pledge now, and what to select?

Take my Fomoraic Kindred for example. This is what I am currently building towards:

Commanders
1 Kraan on Bear (including the Kraan on foot option for when the bear gets killed)
1 Maagaan
1 Naara
1 Brunchaath the Vile on Gooracx (including the on foot version for when the Gooracx gets killed)

Infantry
15 Man Warriors of Baalor
20 Man Gabrax warriors

Monstrous Beasts
Swordtooth
Dainöch (Sea Devil)
Vaak, Morraine beast

I'll have a bunch of extra bits as well: Shaaroc, Gabrox plus loads of others. I'm undecided on the monstrous infantry at the moment. Currently leading towards the Sronax

**RiTides**

Mierce, thanks for genuinely asking. Some things I typed may have just been initial gut reactions, but I have tried to think about it because I'm not sure exactly what (other than price) seems to be the "mental barrier" to me with this campaign.

I think, it's a similar issue to that I have with Mantic's campaign setups... that is, complicated credit systems, and not being sure what I really need to play.

Let me quote the people above me who may have said it better, then I'll add my own thoughts:

SavageRobby wrote:

I kind of know how Zond feels, but I didn't back either of the first two Kickstarters. My guess is going back to those (or finding a copy of the Quickstart rules) is a good place to start. I've referred back to the other Kickstarter projects a couple of times to understand what the starter packs consisted of.

decker_cky wrote:
I think this campaign is a lot more friendly to current customers, but the Darklands universe can be a bit tough to understand for potential customers.
...
I think some starter sets for new players including quickstarter rules would be handy to let players interested in the game dip their feet in, and to show them what goes together (the Mierce website is a bit tough to navigate until you know what you're looking for). Probably becomes a lot more realistic to do proper starter sets when plastic infantry gets produced.

I can definitely see the desire to allow people to pick what they like- that's good. But, because free items are tied to specific units, and there are two different prices for each based on the level I pledge at... man, even just starting out, I've got "mind blown" about how to figure out what is the best deal.

For me, being on kind of the outside and just interested in cool figures, this seems to make it much easier to wait and add on to someone else's pledge and not have to "do the math".

I don't know the exact solution... I just know right now I find the campaign overwhelming and wouldn't know where to begin if I wanted to make a Darklands force. I think Zed's suggestions might be a good way to go:

zedmeister wrote:
I think it's more like giving an idea on how a typical force looks for each given Kindred? For example;

1 General
2 Commanders (including Sorcerer)
2 Infantry units of 10-20 individuals each
2 Monstrous Infantry
1 Monstrous Beast

Another example using just myself- I picked up 2 Blood Maws previously. If there were an easy starter set that could make use of one or both, that would be rather tempting. The Dynwocor above is rather tempting. But how do I know how much it is, or how many will be in a unit, or if it will come with a free character for that unit? How many models would I need to make a starter force? My newest method was to go to the page and try doing a Ctrl-F search for "Dynwocor", but it yields no results... maybe it's just in an update, or maybe the text is embedded in an image and not searchable, and maybe it's not unlocked yet... but I just find the whole thing a bit hopelessly overwhelming!

Starter sets are a sure-fire way to help people see: "Oh, these models work together!". So, maybe a separate page with suggested sets to go with the new infantry units you're funding in this campaign? I.e. take this unit, add a commander, blood maw, and other monster, and BAM! You're ready to go!

Not locking people into such sets... but some idea of how to start would be great. Here, I mostly see "Add these units to your existing collection!"... of which my collection currently is 2 Blood Maws (and formerly a Shaaroc).

Cheers for reading

**skarsol**

A page of "Recommended Loadouts" for each main faction would be pretty useful. Even more useful would be multiple loadouts based on playstyle.

**drazz**

RiTides wrote:

Starter sets are a sure-fire way to help people see: "Oh, these models work together!". So, maybe a separate page with suggested sets to go with the new infantry units you're funding in this campaign? I.e. take this unit, add a commander, blood maw, and other monster, and BAM! You're ready to go!

Not locking people into such sets... but some idea of how to start would be great. Here, I mostly see "Add these units to your existing collection!"... of which my collection currently is 2 Blood Maws (and formerly a Shaaroc).

Cheers for reading

Seconded.

Models are stunning, there's no debate. But, the setting and language are so foreign, I think its making people hesitant. Very steep learning curve to get started in the game.

Maybe you (Mierce) could put together a page with sample armies with a brief explanation on why it was put together that way. Or even invite players to post pics of their hosts. Either way, so potential costumers have something to gauge where some goal for their collections.

**decker_cky**

drazz wrote:
Maybe you (Mierce) could put together a page with sample armies with a brief explanation on why it was put together that way. Or even invite players to post pics of their hosts. Either way, so potential costumers have something to gauge where some goal for their collections.

I think a website guide to getting started with Darklands, with examples of 500 and 1000 gold forces of each faction would be great. It could also be used as a primer to the background. Then for KS campaigns, you could just link to a few of the example forces and show what a great deal the kickstarter is for them.

**Alpharius**

The 'strange sounding names' are a small barrier to entry for some, I imagine.

And being an existing fan of Darklands certainly makes "Darklands KS 2.5" easier to get into.

But having said all that, this campaign is way easier to understand than "KS 1" or even "KS 2".

And the 'flexibility' to get what you want, while still getting a fair amount of freebies (either actual miniatures or extra cash to spend on their site) is certainly there.

There just aren't the mind-blowing, jaw-dropping deals from KS1 this time around - but then we've already been told that they were sort of a 'mistake' and 'never to be repeated'.

**Mierce Miniatures**

I had a big reply to RiTides sorted, and then dakka blew a gasket. Bah.

The upshot is - "recommended loadouts" is a brilliant suggestion, and one that I can't believe I've missed; sometimes you can be too close.

It's something I'll start working on shortly.

Regarding "starter sets" - that's just very hard work for us back of house, and something we want to avoid. THE GOLD SPOT, however, is worth £165 at RRP; for £100 (really £110) you get a monstrous infantry unit and a smaller unit which, at RRP (and including the freebie) are worth £165 at RRP. Around 40% off?

So it's a cracking deal really.

@Alpharius - not really a mistake, just what we had to offer at the time. I actually think this KS has a better deal, in "ALL THE UNITS"...

Automatically Appended Next Post:
@RiTides and decker and everybody - meant to say - thank you for taking the time to reply!

**judgedoug**

Actually, I like the idea of "recommended starter forces" kinda thing. Not to add confusing pics to the front page, but maybe a link that takes you to a site that shows like:

"For Faction XYZ, here's the Muster PDF. Our recommended starter force would be:
Pledge 200 and you'll be able to get:
this 100 pledge level unit w/ bonus guy
buy commander Q at 20% off
buy infantry set P at 20% off
buy giant monster J at 20% off
and that's a 1000 point force!"