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2012/10/09 13:47:02
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Obviously a lot of people feel the new 6th edition chaos codex drops the ball in a lot of areas. I would like to compile a list of proposed changes and editions to make the codex a true representation of what it should have been. I'm envisioning a combination of mix of 3.5, 4th, and 6th.
A list of ideas and suggestions so far separated in each category it falls under (HQ, Troop, Elite, Fast Attack, Heavy, Army wide, Special Rules, War Gear, misc.) All points cost are place holders until agreed upon.
Special Rules
Chosen Sons of Chaos: Special characters are immune to the daemon prince/spawn rolls on the chaos boon table in addition to being able to decline challenges.
Chaos Lords and Sorcerers may purchase the following army wide special rules (Special characters may not); only one special rule may bought per army list:
Darkness approaches: troops have the fear & night vision special rules - 35 points
From the shadows: troops have the stealth & infiltrate special rules - 45 points
Scorch the earth: chaos bikers may be taken as troop choices - 65 points
Death from above: chaos raptors may be taken as troop choices - 55 points
HQ
Abbadon
Huron
Kharn
Ahriman
Typhus
Lucius
Fabius
Chaos Lord
Chaos Sorcerer - may buy eternal warrior for 35 points
Daemon Prince - t6 and eternal Warrior, Marks confer their effect, May take Undivided Mark, Wings reduced to 25pts, base cost reduced 25 points
Warp Smith - Moved to the Elite Section
Dark Apostle - Move to the Elite Section, May take terminator Armor
Elites
HellBrute
Mutlitors
Possessed
Chaos Terminators
Chosen - Infiltrate returned, ability to take terminator Armor, bikes, or jump packs for 15 pts each
Noise Marines - take away the 10 marine minimum for blast masters
Thousand Sons - Have relentless when Aspiring Sorcerer is in the unit while ignoring slow and purposeful along as he remains in the unit.
Khorne Berzerkers - Base attack increased by 1, now have fleet, Chain Axes are standard war gear, May buy power weapons. Base Cost increased to 20.
Plague Marines
Troops
Chaos Space Marines -
Chaos Cultist - Aspiring Champion may take a power weapon
Fast Attack
Chaos Bikers
ChaosSpawn
Raptors
Warp Talons - 6 point cost reduction per model, ability to take grenades 1 pt per model
Helldrake
Heavy
Havocs
Land Raiders - a new land raider type
Defilers - 30 point cost reduction
Vindicator
Predator
Oblitorators - Fearless Again
Mauler Fiends
Forge Fiends
War Gear - inclusion of the generic daemon weapons of the previous codex
- an upgrade to allow rhinos to become assault vehicles, 35 points
- Axe of Blind Fury confers Fleet instead of Rage
- Return of personal Icon, may act as a teleport homer for friendly units including Daemons
Misc & Marks -Mark of Tzeentch changed back to base +5 Invul save
----------
Alternate Stat change for Daemon Prince
Special Rules: Daemon, Fearless, Monstrous Creature
120 points
Upgrades: MUST be upgraded to a daemons of a specific god. This counts as a mark of that chaos deity (with the proper rulles) and also grants the specific Daemon Prince upgrades listed in the codex.
-Can take Wings for 40 points.
-Can take Power Armor for 15 points.
-Can gain Fleshmetal for 50 points; cannot be taken along with Wings.
-Can gain a Daemonic Rune for 30 points (confers the eternal Warrior Rule)
-Can purchase Veteran of the Long War for 5 points.
-May take up to 3 Mastery Lever for 20 points each.
-Has access to Chaos Reward and Chaos Artefacts wargear lists.
I would like as much feed back and ideas as possible. Please keep in mind no new special characters or entirety new units, variants or upgrades are accepted (cult terminators, chosen terminators, vehicle variants). Nothing inherently broken either. I plan to complie everything into a pdf and have it revised over time.
This message was edited 15 times. Last update was at 2012/10/11 16:32:55
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
2012/10/09 13:56:47
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Chosen Sons of Chaos: Special charecters are imune to the daemon prince/spawn rolls on the boon table in adition to being able to decline challenges.
Ability to purchase army wide special rules:
Darkness approaches: troops have the fear & night vision special rules
From the shadows: troops have the infiltrate special rule
Scorch the earth: chaos bikers may be taken as troop choices
Death from above: chaos raptors may be taken as troop choices
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Valkyrie wrote: So it's been 4 days since Codex release and we're already saying how bad it is and how it needs to be improved?
Again this is a thread for those who are unsatisfied, not to complain about those who are complaining. It's not hurting you and is in the proposed rules section. Take it somewhere else.
This message was edited 6 times. Last update was at 2012/10/10 09:23:52
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
2012/10/09 14:37:32
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Spartan089 wrote: Obviously a lot of people feel the new 6th edition chaos codex drops the ball in a lot of areas. I would like to compile a list of proposed changes and editions to make the codex a true representation of what it should have been. I'm envisioning a combination of mix of 3.5, 4th, and 6th.
A few ideas
- an upgrade to allow rhinos to become assualt vehicles
- take away the 10 marine minimum for blast masters
- a new land raider type
- inclusion of the generic daemon weapons of the previous codex
- t6 and eternal warrior for daemon princes
- daemon princes allowing cult troop choices with proper mark
- properly costed cult units - ect......
And so on.
I would like as much feed back and ideas as possible. Please keep in mind no new special characters or entirety new units, variants or upgrades are accepted (cult terminators, chosen terminators, vehicle variants). Nothing inheritantly broken either. I plan to complie everything into a pdf and have it revised over time.
I'm curious, what exactly do you think cult units should cost? I personally think they are priced right for what they are capable of, especially in comparison with other elite units from other armies.
2012/10/09 14:53:54
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Spartan089 wrote: Obviously a lot of people feel the new 6th edition chaos codex drops the ball in a lot of areas. I would like to compile a list of proposed changes and editions to make the codex a true representation of what it should have been. I'm envisioning a combination of mix of 3.5, 4th, and 6th.
A few ideas
- an upgrade to allow rhinos to become assualt vehicles
- take away the 10 marine minimum for blast masters
- a new land raider type
- inclusion of the generic daemon weapons of the previous codex
- t6 and eternal warrior for daemon princes
- daemon princes allowing cult troop choices with proper mark
- properly costed cult units - ect......
And so on.
I would like as much feed back and ideas as possible. Please keep in mind no new special characters or entirety new units, variants or upgrades are accepted (cult terminators, chosen terminators, vehicle variants). Nothing inheritantly broken either. I plan to complie everything into a pdf and have it revised over time.
I'm curious, what exactly do you think cult units should cost? I personally think they are priced right for what they are capable of, especially in comparison with other elite units from other armies.
Yes and no, plague marines are about right maybe a point cheaper should be nice, but noise marines, thousand sons and khorne berzerkers are over costed.
- 1000 sons can not overwatch, limiting their combat efficiency
- khorne berzerkers have limited war gear options, lost an attack, and are generally much worse off due to changes in assaulting. Death company does their job better and are cheaper, even khorne marked regular csm are better in certain regards
- noise marine while ignoring cover are limited due to salvo rules and the fact that taking a blast master requires 10 marines
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/10/09 15:36:48
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
2012/10/09 15:20:48
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
- khorne berzerkers have limited war gear options, lost an attack, and ate generally much worse off due to changes in assaulting. Death company does their job better and are cheaper,
Please check your math.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/09 15:21:01
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2012/10/09 15:46:13
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
- khorne berzerkers have limited war gear options, lost an attack, and ate generally much worse off due to changes in assaulting. Death company does their job better and are cheaper,
Please check your math.
Why should he?
- Berzerkers: 4 attacks on charge, 2 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, 1 power weapon per unit, 19 ppm - DC: 5 attacks on charge, 3 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, Feel No Pain, lots of power weapons per unit, 20ppm
Overall: +1 ppm for +1 attack and Feel No Pain. Hooops ...
What I would like to see in the codex:
- Doomrider (Lord on Bike with +1 WS, +1 I and MoS (+2 I overall), plus Daemon special rule, plus the old "airborne movement" and "disappear on 1" special rules, plus "Exalted Champion" as built-in Warlord Trait, plus "makes Chaos Bike Squads Troops" special rule, plus a plasma pistol/power weapon with the name "Snowblind"
- An option to make character weapons master-crafted (like in the GK codex)
- Change Marks of Khorne back to plain +1 A instead of Rage/CA - Reaper Autocannons as Salvo 2/4
- Frag grenades for the Warp Talons
- Doomrider (he is sooooo cool)!
- Fleet for the Berzerkers and the Warp Talons
- Land Raider Deathfire: cargo capacity 15, 2x2 sponson mounted TL heavy flamers, hull mounted reaper AC, 250 points
- -5 points from the cost of the Havoc's special/heavy weapons
- Infiltrate and MtC for Cultists
- Bring back the Mark of Chaos Undivided: it gives Night Vision (as Chaos can see it all!) and Adamantium Will for +2 ppm - Doomrider (I can't understand how thy could left him out)!
- Thousand Sons only have S&P if no friendly Psyker is in their unit
- Price drop on the Dameon Princes by -20 points or so
- Terminator armour option for the Dark Apostle
- And finally: Doomrider!!!
My armies:
14000 points
2012/10/09 15:47:17
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
I do feel the new codex more de-fanged chaos more than anythng else, Even the new units are remarkably mediocre.
I dont like the loss of EW but wouldnt mind it so much if i could get better than a 5+ invuln.
I hope they faq some of the rewards and artifacts to actually provide a benefit to the DP. (let em build up their invuln with sigil or aura,)
2012/10/09 16:22:00
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
I appreciate the sentiment but wonder if there is a point. GW has spoken. I see two options for now:
-Using JustDave's chaos fandix as a core for a 'fixed' 6th edition book for us to use casually, or
-Writing GW's FAQ e-mail pointing out the issues in a clear, polite manner. I have done so, but didn't get to cover all the bum deals in the book, obviously.
In Boxing matches, you actually get paid to take a dive and make the other guy look good.
In Warhammer 40K, you're expected to pay cash out of your pocket for the privilege of having Marines and IG trample all over your Xenos/Chaos.
2012/10/09 17:12:35
Subject: Re:Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Honestly this is all I can do right now to cope with such a let down. No amount faq's can change that, and I doubt GW will faq that much.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
daedalus wrote: I wish I had the ability to dismiss a book within a week of it coming out without rigorous playtesting.
There's been 5 years of rigorous play testing, the new codex is just a minor upgrade from the old codex with some arguably worse nerfs across the board. We don't have anything that will seriously change the face of chaos, and that's the problem. Again this is the proposed rules forum not the general rules forum.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/09 17:22:54
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
2012/10/09 17:23:01
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
- khorne berzerkers have limited war gear options, lost an attack, and ate generally much worse off due to changes in assaulting. Death company does their job better and are cheaper,
Please check your math.
Why should he?
- Berzerkers: 4 attacks on charge, 2 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, 1 power weapon per unit, 19 ppm - DC: 5 attacks on charge, 3 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, Feel No Pain, lots of power weapons per unit, 20ppm
The same reason you should.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/09 17:23:17
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2012/10/09 17:23:06
Subject: Re:Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
The Codex is fine. I played against it a few days ago, and it was much more powerful than it's predecessor. Dear god if you got any of the things that you posted, it would just be a bit too much. The only thing I COULD agree with would be T6, however I don't think he needs Eternal Warrior (and should still be down'd instantly with the right weapon just like an Avatar can be). I also feel that T5 was done on purpose and it's not all that bad. The idea is to make you play tactically with your Daemon Prince as he is not as powerful as a full fledged Daemon of the Warp. But everyone wants Assault Rhinos and you guys do not particularly need it. I venture to say that nobody will be getting them.
To address everything else. You should not get new Land Raiders, that tech was found post-heresy. I'm not sure if I agree or not with the Blast Masters, I never saw too much of an issue with them in groups of 6 as before. I like that Daemon Weapons aren't carried by every Chaos Lord and their dogs. It really made them stale in the last edition, and I'm glad to see they are more of a unique weapon again. Daemon Princes should not unlock cult troops as troop choices, they are more daemon oriented than marine oriented and would have little connection at that point to the actual commanding of forces. Cult Troops are fine, which ones don't pull their weight? Even Bezerkers, the ones that arguably got hit the worst, still hold their point value versus many other equivalents.
Why should he?
- Berzerkers: 4 attacks on charge, 2 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, 1 power weapon per unit, 19 ppm - DC: 5 attacks on charge, 3 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, Feel No Pain, lots of power weapons per unit, 20ppm
Overall: +1 ppm for +1 attack and Feel No Pain. Hooops ...
Can DC be taken as troops? AFAIK they cannot be. Mystery solved.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/10/09 17:32:15
2012/10/09 17:39:31
Subject: Re:Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Spartan089 wrote: Obviously a lot of people feel the new 6th edition chaos codex drops the ball in a lot of areas. I would like to compile a list of proposed changes and editions to make the codex a true representation of what it should have been. I'm envisioning a combination of mix of 3.5, 4th, and 6th.
Maybe instead of wishlisting "fixes" to the new Codex you should just adapt? The updated Chaos book is really very strong if you use it properly...
2012/10/09 17:58:41
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Pretre: OOOOHHHHH snap. That's like driving away from hitting a pedestrian.
Pacific:First person to Photoshop a GW store into the streets of Kabul wins the thread.
Selym: "Be true to thyself, play Chaos" - Jesus, Daemon Prince of Cegorach.
H.B.M.C: You can't lobotomise someone twice.
2012/10/09 17:59:14
Subject: Re:Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Farseer Mael Dannan wrote: The Codex is fine. I played against it a few days ago, and it was much more powerful than it's predecessor. Dear god if you got any of the things that you posted, it would just be a bit too much. The only thing I COULD agree with would be T6, however I don't think he needs Eternal Warrior (and should still be down'd instantly with the right weapon just like an Avatar can be). I also feel that T5 was done on purpose and it's not all that bad. The idea is to make you play tactically with your Daemon Prince as he is not as powerful as a full fledged Daemon of the Warp. But everyone wants Assault Rhinos and you guys do not particularly need it. I venture to say that nobody will be getting them.
To address everything else. You should not get new Land Raiders, that tech was found post-heresy. I'm not sure if I agree or not with the Blast Masters, I never saw too much of an issue with them in groups of 6 as before. I like that Daemon Weapons aren't carried by every Chaos Lord and their dogs. It really made them stale in the last edition, and I'm glad to see they are more of a unique weapon again. Daemon Princes should not unlock cult troops as troop choices, they are more daemon oriented than marine oriented and would have little connection at that point to the actual commanding of forces. Cult Troops are fine, which ones don't pull their weight? Even Bezerkers, the ones that arguably got hit the worst, still hold their point value versus many other equivalents.
Why should he?
- Berzerkers: 4 attacks on charge, 2 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, 1 power weapon per unit, 19 ppm - DC: 5 attacks on charge, 3 after charge, WS5, Furious Charge, Fearless, Feel No Pain, lots of power weapons per unit, 20ppm
Overall: +1 ppm for +1 attack and Feel No Pain. Hooops ...
Can DC be taken as troops? AFAIK they cannot be. Mystery solved.
The DC question has been answered and as for new vehicle variants, what's to stop dark mechanis from tampering with the core design. That's how the redeemer and crusader came to be, they were battle feild modifications. Hell chaos could have just captured a forge world and started pumping out loyalist land taidets, the point is it makes no sense they don't have variants.
Spartan089 wrote: Obviously a lot of people feel the new 6th edition chaos codex drops the ball in a lot of areas. I would like to compile a list of proposed changes and editions to make the codex a true representation of what it should have been. I'm envisioning a combination of mix of 3.5, 4th, and 6th.
Maybe instead of wishlisting "fixes" to the new Codex you should just adapt? The updated Chaos book is really very strong if you use it properly...
Again this is the proposed rules section, I'm proposing rules for casual play not telling others how they should play. Frankly comments like that do not help nor do they have anything to do with this topic.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/10/09 18:04:31
Games Workshop: Ruining Chaos Space Marines since 2007
First they raised prices on the Eldar, and I did not speak out because I did not play Eldar.
Then, they raised prices on the Orks, and I did not speak out because I did not play Orks.
Then, they raised prices on the Nids, and I did not speak out because I did not play Nids.
Then, they raised prices on the Marines, and there was nobody to speak out for me.
2012/10/09 18:07:44
Subject: Re:Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Can DC be taken as troops? AFAIK they cannot be. Mystery solved.
They are Troops . But they can't score. Just like the Berzerkers (who are Elites now) without a Khorne Lord.
And I'm kinda' in the dark with this math thing: 200 points of Berzerkers (9+champ) vs 200 points of DC (10 DC), and the 'zerkers will get the charge: 3 dead DC (+1 with VoLW) and 2 dead KB in phase 1, 1 dead DC and 2 dead KB in phase 2, 1 dead DC and 1 dead KB in phase 3 and 4, 0.5 dead DC and 1 dead KB in phase 5, 6, 7 and 8, where the Kbs are wiped out with roughly 1-2 DCs left. And mind you, this is with the Berzerkers charging. With the DC charging phase 1 will be like: 5 KB dead and 2 DC dead. And then, the KBs would be wiped out for phase 4 with 4-5 DCs remaining. Soooooo... The DCs will win in both scenarios. By math...
My armies:
14000 points
2012/10/09 18:13:50
Subject: Re:Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Who is going to take them without a cheap-ass khorne lord?
Who doesn't want to waste his precious HQ slot just to make a rather mediocre unit scoring?
Spartan:
I don't think that it is getting off-topic. Finding the weakness of a unit is the first step to improve it. Khorne Berzerkers are not a bad unit, but they are simply overmatched. They need something... speshul to earn their cost. This could be Fleet, a reworked Khorne Mark, Chainaxes as a basic wargear, option to take lots of power weapons otr the combination of these.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/09 18:29:06
My armies:
14000 points
2012/10/09 18:50:32
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Remember everyone that the game is what you make it and GW even says make up your own rules if you want more.
Try not to judge people making their own rules if they don't like a product.
Not to be a martyr or anything, but if my Thousand Sons themed army can do okay against nasty lists then I bet most of you will be juuuuuuuuuuuuust fine. Personally, I love the book.. but this thread is not about that. It's about helping the OP with some ideas.
My only suggestion is to give a Spell Familiar to Ahriman.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/09 19:01:02
2012/10/09 19:03:23
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
Looking at a few of the suggestions, I think that Assault Rhinos would either be extremely OP when carrying marines, or would have to be priced to the point where nobody would want to take them. That being said, I agree with a bit of what is being offered, and would like to make the following suggestions:
1 SC per Legion. That is to say of the 9 traitor legions, there is at least one special character for each legion. It would make Chaos the most SC intensive codex (I believe it would give them 11, Abbadon, Kharn, Typhus, Arihman, Lucius, Fabius, Huron, plus one more character for Alpha Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors and Night Lords), but it would allow the people desperate for rules for their favored legion an option (it would at least stop the complaining for a while). The Word Bearers and the Iron Warriors could get upgraded Dark Apostles and Warpsmiths, respectively, and the Alpha Legion Character could be a special ability giver/force multiplier, and the Night Lords could give everything fear or something.
I'd also add in a large number of Daemon weapons, but make them 1 per army (special characters excluded) if they aren't already so in the new Chaos Codex. Additionally, there should be at least one daemon weapon unique to each god, but that weapon should have even further restrictions on it.
Some sort of non-marine/daemon prince HQ choice. I know some people who want to field a chaos space marine army without any chaos space marines in it, so being able to field cultists, daemon engines, and some sort of cultist commander would be nice. Perhaps reintroduce Greater Daemons into the army and have a "Greater Daemonhost" HQ choice.
More options for cultists. From what I've seen of the new codex they only really have options for a flamer and a heavy stubber in addition to marks. Maybe give them some chaosy upgrades, such as the ability to buy the brotherhood of psykers ability or become possessed by daemons or something.
I've heard that the Mark of Chaos Undivided is gone. Maybe reintroduce it and make it give models ATSKNF or something.
2012/10/09 19:39:06
Subject: Chaos players unite: fixing the new CSM codex.
The thing about points cost is too many people like to look at a single unit (usually elite units) and immediately complain because there is another unit in another army that is better/cheaper and thus the new unit is overpriced. Its never that the new unit is priced right and the old, better unit was underpriced. Also, nobody ever takes into consideration the pricing of the rest of the army. In a vacuum, they are overpriced, but in a list that contains a couple of havoc squads loaded with 4 autocannons (115 points each squad, exceptionally cheap), suddenly they get lots of cover fire that may allow them to make it across the board and their stock goes up. Throw in a large, attention getting unit like a Maulerfiend, and the Berzerkers have even more potential.
As for being on topic, one change I would recommend are allowing Thousand Sons to carry a heavy weapon of some sort. Too many people complain about their price and the fact that they can't even carry a heavy weapon to deal with tanks. Losing overwatch is not that bad, and given the fact they shoot rapid fire AP3 bolters that don't get hot, it was either lose OW or get a steep points hike. At least allow plasma/melta guns.
The Mark of Tzeentch should be put back to where it was before, 5+ invul save if no invul save is available.
Given how grossly effective Chaos Marine Bikers can be now (especially for the points), I don't think they actually need Doomrider. I foresee a big spike in large biker lists for Chaos, as they are just too good with 3 of the 4 marks.
Carry on.
...
14000 points 
. But they can't score. Just like the Berzerkers (who are Elites now) without a Khorne Lord.
