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I'd have been content with just 1 additional page with legion specific rules. I'd been REALLY happy if they kicked out Huron and perhaps Bile. I'd have been ecstatic if Honsou (at the least) was brought in as a special character. And I'd have sung glory glory hallelujah in the buff upon the Lincoln Memorial if Abaddon's mile high top knot was retconned.

We have people complaing here that their new shiny codex isn't good enough. We have people complaining on the DA rumor thread that Matt Ward might be writting the new DA codex and they don't want it to be overpowered. People will always find something to complain about.

If Fabius give the squad he's attach to FNP (5+), he might actually be worth using!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dracosz wrote:
I honestly like most of the codex, though there are a two things that really aggravate me.

Daemon Weapons: I for one am not a fan of the removal of the 4 daemon weapons from the previous codex. They were interesting wargear choices that, at AP 2, made chaos lords a very deadly force in CC. The current daemon weapon options left (the brand, the murder blade and the axe of blind fury) are very gimmicky weapons that are a lot less fluffy than being able to model your own daemon weapons. Just bring them back so we don't have to deal with black mace prince shenanigans and RAW, I guarantee people would love the codex a lot more if they were back.

Dark Apostles/Warpsmiths being unable to take bikes/wings: This makes *no* sense to me. Chaplains and masters of the forge can do it, why can't these guys? It really pigeonholes these guys into playing with blobs or assaulting out of raiders for the former (A pack of bikers/warp talons/mutilators with one of these would be deadly as hell...) and being a support gunline unit for the latter.

They dont want a bunch of AP2 weapons that strike at Initiative, so they make it a special character privilage. I mean, how many non MC AP2 weapons strikes on initiative are there on none special character models? Incubi glaive is the only one I can think of.

Jarl Marius wrote:realy? is this like serious?
well wont everyone want their to make [insert random codex] overpowered

TheLionOfTheForest wrote:We have people complaing here that their new shiny codex isn't good enough. We have people complaining on the DA rumor thread that Matt Ward might be writting the new DA codex and they don't want it to be overpowered. People will always find something to complain about.

So people aren't allowed to have grievances with a Codex? Well then I guess this entire forum is useless then huh?

In all seriousness though, why does it being "new" make it taboo to raise issues about it and want to better it or make such a thing "complaining?"

you can complain ofcourse, but some of the ideas to ''fix'' it are way overpowered, to the point i cant take it as a serious suggestion anymore

The only thing I was disheartened on really was that cultists can't take icons. That would be nice. I would most definitely run six full squads of cultists with Icon of vengeance.

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
We have people complaing here that their new shiny codex isn't good enough. We have people complaining on the DA rumor thread that Matt Ward might be writting the new DA codex and they don't want it to be overpowered. People will always find something to complain about.

The fact that some of those complains may be more grounded in fact than others is, of course, completelly irrelevant!

I'd be quite glad with the latest codex if it had been accompanied by a sizable re-working of ALL army books: Vendettas at 165 points each, Long Fangs costing 22 points a piece before picking weapons, Eldar units in general given sane costs, and much more. Since no such thing happened or will happen, each mediocre new book just further tilts the game.

And on a personal note, I had both armies I play, melee Dark Eldar and Chaos Space Marines, have their lists voided this year. I'll complain even after I eBay my stuff, all to your reading pleasure.

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
We have people complaing here that their new shiny codex isn't good enough. We have people complaining on the DA rumor thread that Matt Ward might be writting the new DA codex and they don't want it to be overpowered. People will always find something to complain about.

The fact that some of those complains may be more grounded in fact than others is, of course, completelly irrelevant!

I'd be quite glad with the latest codex if it had been accompanied by a sizable re-working of ALL army books: Vendettas at 165 points each, Long Fangs costing 22 points a piece before picking weapons, Eldar units in general given sane costs, and much more. Since no such thing happened or will happen, each mediocre new book just further tilts the game.

And on a personal note, I had both armies I play, melee Dark Eldar and Chaos Space Marines, have their lists voided this year. I'll complain even after I eBay my stuff, all to your reading pleasure.

If it makes you feel any better long fangs will likely lose fire control for split fire and lose being able to have WG attached to it. Really they don't need WG, they have pack leaders anyway. Which should mitigate some of the rage against them. I personally avoid over using Long fangs and stay right away from missile spam, I mean las cannons are cheap enough and fun throw at hard targets while the heavy bolters with it suppress infantry, but thats just me I guess. I'd dig autocannons for em, but undoubtably someone will complain about it so meh. And if the chaos dex is anything to go by, Long fangs with missile launchers who take flakk missiles will cost more than las cannons, gold.

 Bausk wrote:

 Sephyr wrote:

 TheLionOfTheForest wrote:
We have people complaing here that their new shiny codex isn't good enough. We have people complaining on the DA rumor thread that Matt Ward might be writting the new DA codex and they don't want it to be overpowered. People will always find something to complain about.

The fact that some of those complains may be more grounded in fact than others is, of course, completelly irrelevant!

I'd be quite glad with the latest codex if it had been accompanied by a sizable re-working of ALL army books: Vendettas at 165 points each, Long Fangs costing 22 points a piece before picking weapons, Eldar units in general given sane costs, and much more. Since no such thing happened or will happen, each mediocre new book just further tilts the game.

And on a personal note, I had both armies I play, melee Dark Eldar and Chaos Space Marines, have their lists voided this year. I'll complain even after I eBay my stuff, all to your reading pleasure.

If it makes you feel any better long fangs will likely lose fire control for split fire and lose being able to have WG attached to it. Really they don't need WG, they have pack leaders anyway. Which should mitigate some of the rage against them. I personally avoid over using Long fangs and stay right away from missile spam, I mean las cannons are cheap enough and fun throw at hard targets while the heavy bolters with it suppress infantry, but thats just me I guess. I'd dig autocannons for em, but undoubtably someone will complain about it so meh. And if the chaos dex is anything to go by, Long fangs with missile launchers who take flakk missiles will cost more than las cannons, gold.

Long fangs have yet to lose it in any manner or way, not to mention being a 5th dex means they won't be updated for sometime, so they'll still be the same a few years from now.

I don't understand why everyone is so down on fabulous bill.
He has a million attacks that instant kill, someone is going to fail a save eventually! He also has a fleshbane machine gun and FNP.

Besides all that, he buffs one squad with 2 serious bonuses (given that they are already very low pricepoint marines) aaaaaaand he stiffens a second squad just by hanging out with them.

Can you imagine how expensive he'd have to be be to give a squad FNP on top of that?

Fabulous Bill is just fine.. Ask a guy at the tournament yesterday.

A CSM player just swept our monthly tournament at my FLGS. I applaud GW for making a balanced codex that's competitive in the current game.

It's a really neat codex! There are some flavor things that could probably have been handled better. And being one of those "nuanced codexes" that tries to walk fine lines with it's selection of units and configurations it feels like there are some areas where configurations have ways of making other sort of redundant seemingly unintentionally, I can see eventually people wanting to tackle that sort of idea for their favourite unit or in time knowing how others should be balanced to be playable, but for now I think all's well.

I guess there was such anticipation and there is suuuuuch a fanbase with years of preconceptions so the backlash was bound to be pretty fast and furious!

I think the biggest issue with this codex is that rhinos are very hard to use assault marines with, and they made it pretty expensive (comparatively) to make marines that are both shooty and choppy. They gave a couple other options, but somehow they don't feel right. Maybe it's just a sign of the times though.

Tzeench also kinda sucks but that feels sort of traditional at this point. Not really a big design issue.

Fascinating and fun codex so far. Some things feel a little off, but they always do.

Anyone else find the icons to be rather redundant or pointless on some units? Like Vengeance, flame, or despair on possessed. Nice one Kelly, rooting out the dumb blondes of 40k one overcosted redundant "upgrade" at a time.

 Lucre wrote:
There are some flavor things that could probably have been handled better. And being one of those "nuanced codexes" that tries to walk fine lines with it's selection of units and configurations it feels like there are some areas where configurations have ways of making other sort of redundant seemingly unintentionally,

I very much agree on this. My only complaints are so-so fluff, somewhat redundant unit choices, and no new characters (I'm only really miffed about Cypher not making an appearence). Otherwise I really like it.

 Sencho wrote:
A CSM player just swept our monthly tournament at my FLGS. I applaud GW for making a balanced codex that's competitive in the current game.

I attribute this more to New Army Syndrome than anything else. Dark Eldar were destroying people and taking tournaments when they first came out, but after about a month they dropped almost to a bottom tier army.

Once people get used to the new Chaos book we'll see them start to line up with most of the other Codex books. They seem strong enough to hold their own against the likes of Blood Angels, but they definitely aren't on the level that Guard or Space Wolves are.

With that said, I agree with everything Lucre said...especially about Tzeentch. Our gaming group is already talking about letting units with Mark of Tzeentch at least have a 5+ invulnerable save if they don't have one instead of the negligible 6+ invul save.

 Marik Law wrote:

 Sencho wrote:
A CSM player just swept our monthly tournament at my FLGS. I applaud GW for making a balanced codex that's competitive in the current game.

I attribute this more to New Army Syndrome than anything else. Dark Eldar were destroying people and taking tournaments when they first came out, but after about a month they dropped almost to a bottom tier army.

Once people get used to the new Chaos book we'll see them start to line up with most of the other Codex books. They seem strong enough to hold their own against the likes of Blood Angels, but they definitely aren't on the level that Guard or Space Wolves are.

With that said, I agree with everything Lucre said...especially about Tzeentch. Our gaming group is already talking about letting units with Mark of Tzeentch at least have a 5+ invulnerable save if they don't have one instead of the negligible 6+ invul save.

another AP3 torrent flamer! ugg, next time I will be ready