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I would say it is fine for him to sell it.

However I can understand the idea from others that this is disgraceful but I think this ideal is slightly misplaced.

If you are Awarded a National Honour from a Country / International Institution / Sovereign then I would say it is a disgrace or some cases Treason to sell or pawn the award. The Medal's I have from my time in the UK Armed forces, have my name on them and Service No, but they are not mine, they are Awarded by the Sovereign and therefore can only be taken off me by the Sovereigns order, I am merely the Custodian. It is technically not an offence (for a Civilian) to sell your Medals although you are selling something that doesn't belong to you, but it is considered bad form and contemptuous to the Crown, many are passed down through generations and they will end up in a collection or sold to collectors.

For example I would consider the following Disgraceful:-

1. Selling the "Congressional Medal of Honor" or similar award you have been given.
2. Selling a "Victoria Cross" or similar award you have been given.
3. Rescinding/ disavowing a "Knighthood/peerage from the Sovereign after being invested".
4. Selling or disavowing a NOBEL prize after accepting it.

As the Slayer Sword isn't anything like any of these examples I would say he is free to do what he likes with it.

 mwnciboo wrote:
I would say it is fine for him to sell it.

However I can understand the idea from others that this is disgraceful but I think this ideal is slightly misplaced.

If you are Awarded a National Honour from a Country / International Institution / Sovereign then I would say it is a disgrace or some cases Treason to sell or pawn the award. The Medal's I have from my time in the UK Armed forces, have my name on them and Service No, but they are not mine, they are Awarded by the Sovereign and therefore can only be taken off me by the Sovereigns order, I am merely the Custodian. It is technically not an offence to sell your Medals but it is considered bad form and contemptuous to the Crown, many are passed down through generations and they will end up in a collection or sold to collectors.

For example I would consider the following Disgraceful:-

1. Selling the "Congressional Medal of Honor" or similar award you have been given.
2. Selling a "Victoria Cross" or similar award you have been given.
3. Rescinding/ disavowing a "Knighthood/peerage from the Sovereign after being invested".
4. Selling or disavowing a NOBEL prize after accepting it.

As the Slayer Sword isn't anything like any of these examples I would say he is free to do what he likes with it.

The thing is, with respect to those things that you find disrespectful to sell, if the winner of the medal is in a bad place or selling them helps him family live more comfortably, then more power to them i say.
afterall he is still the winner of X medal, even if he does not have it.

 Rayvon wrote:


The thing is, with respect to those things that you find disrespectful to sell, if the winner of the medal is in a bad place or selling them helps him family live more comfortably, then more power to them i say.
afterall he is still the winner of X medal, even if he does not have it.

If you are still serving in the military it is an Offence, if you are civilian and do it, you can actually be stripped of the award and have to return the Medal or else you will have to Pay for it. There are precedents for this, but given it is the Crown Courts and Crown Magistrates it is likely you wouldn't get a fair trial and it wouldn't stand up. But Victoria Cross recipients have been stripped of it before:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victoria_Cross_forfeitures

Just because you received an Award doesn't make it yours, you can be stripped of it, and no longer allowed to have the privilege and entitlements it bestows. Selling something that doesn't strictly belong to you is a considerable problem, especially as possession is 9 tenths of the Law.

Equally many awards come with a Stipend or Monetary Award, stripping of the Award may well require you to pay back the stipend as you have broken the terms of the Award.

With modern Newspapers etc it would be a PR disaster all round, however if we looked after our returning Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen a bit better it wouldn't be much of an issue. As it stands it is likely to get worse over the next 20 years as PTSD manifests.

Anyway OT, selling a sword you get as a trophy for painting little men is a non-issue.

I suspect that most people who frowned on the selling of the slayer sword (myself included) are simply incredulous that someone, who had the skill to win an award that many aspire to, put the sword up for sale so shortly after GD.

In the absence of a complete picture, the act itself may imply that the seller looked down on an award that many strive and continue to work hard for.

Having learnt of the shoddy craftmenship and Karol's thoughts behind the action, I empathise and agree that selling the sword is the correct action for him.

Life is too short for RAGE. Perhaps consider all the facts before calling down the nuke? A better thread title could have been: Why did Karol sell his Slayer sword?

 mwnciboo wrote:
[
If you are still serving in the military it is an Offence, if you are civilian and do it, you can actually be stripped of the award and have to return the Medal or else you will have to Pay for it. There are precedents for this, but given it is the Crown Courts and Crown Magistrates it is likely you wouldn't get a fair trial and it wouldn't stand up. But Victoria Cross recipients have been stripped of it before:-

Spoiler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victoria_Cross_forfeitures

Just because you received an Award doesn't make it yours, you can be stripped of it, and no longer allowed to have the privilege and entitlements it bestows. Selling something that doesn't strictly belong to you is a considerable problem, especially as possession is 9 tenths of the Law.

Equally many awards come with a Stipend or Monetary Award, stripping of the Award may well require you to pay back the stipend as you have broken the terms of the Award.

With modern Newspapers etc it would be a PR disaster all round, however if we looked after our returning Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen a bit better it wouldn't be much of an issue. As it stands it is likely to get worse over the next 20 years as PTSD manifests.

Anyway OT, selling a sword you get as a trophy for painting little men is a non-issue.

I think the point is that you are presenting the exceptions that prove the rule. The Victoria Cross, Medal of Honor, and relatively few others have stipulations and some are not fully owned by the recipient.

However, that should not cloud the fact that most awards, prizes, etc., come with no strings attached. As you seem to indicate, we both agree that the slayer sword is one of these more common (in general terms) type of awards where there is no moral or legal obligation to retain ownership and no limits on transfer-ability of the physical trophy.

As an aside, I think "Trophy" is a particularly apt description for the Slayer, since it's no longer a functional Sword in any real way.

People are confusing disdain for and disappointment with the physical object itself, with lack of respect for the actual competition. I fully expect Karol will rock along to other GD's with similarly beautiful entries.
You don't put hundreds of hours of effort (not to mention the considerable financial investment/risk that goes with that time if you're pro) into a competition piece without some investment in the institute of the competition itself.

Are we still discussing this? He won a prize for painting a toy soldier. Who cares if he wants to sell it?

 Kaldor wrote:
It's his, he can sell it if e wants. Why on earth would it be an issue?

Im guessing that OP holds GW stuff in far too high regard...

silent25 wrote:
Blog post with the sword winners reasoning: http://masterminis.blogspot.de/2012/10/slayer-sword-winner-speaks-out.html

Yup, as mentions, a sword collector who after seeing one, knew he had to get it. The swords use to be made by British company. In 2012, the year this guy won, GW switched to a cheaper outfit in China. Cheap piece of crap.

The old Slayer Sword looks glorious! I bet you could contact the old manufacturer and have them make one for you, albeit at a high price

Yeah, they roll in at about 2 grand.

After reading his blog post, I don't care about this anymore. So he won a trophy and is disappointed because it's not real? He seriously went through all that just get a free sword? What an idiot.

Davylove21 wrote:If you win a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honour and sell it, power to you. You still won the award and not feeling like you need to prove it is only admirable.

Nobby Stiles sold off his World Cup winners medal so that his family could live more comfortably. Nobodies disrespected him for it because it just isn't an issue.

If you win a cheap sword from GW and some idiot wants to pay you hundreds for it, cash in.

To clarify - you do not "win" a medal - you are awarded it for performance/actions. It is wrong to sell these medals. Trophies and other items associated with sports and other non-military service - like the Sword - by all means I agree on that point - it is the person's choice.

Trasvi wrote:

 Davylove21 wrote:
If you win a Victoria Cross or Medal of Honour and sell it, power to you. You still won the award and not feeling like you need to prove it is only admirable.

Nobby Stiles sold off his World Cup winners medal so that his family could live more comfortably. Nobodies disrespected him for it because it just isn't an issue.

If you win a cheap sword from GW and some idiot wants to pay you hundreds for it, cash in.

Going to be a pedant here and point out it is illegal to sell the Medal of Honor.

It is a little disappointing how often people sell things that are supposed to be personal tokens of recognition or honour. I've seen it come up on the news when people sell their Keys to the City or their Order of <X Nation> honours. In the scheme of things, a Slayer Sword is incredibly minor.

Agreed -It is illegal to sell, wear, or manufacture any decorations or medals authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States.

In General. - Whoever knowingly wears, manufactures, or sells any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title (18 United State Code) or imprisoned not more than six months or both.

Title 18 United States Code. Sec. 1001, entitled "Statements or entries generally," June 25, 1948, ch. 45, 62 Stat. 749. Links - http://www.cmohs.org/medal-faq.php ; http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/704 .

mwnciboo wrote:I would say it is fine for him to sell it.

However I can understand the idea from others that this is disgraceful but I think this ideal is slightly misplaced.

If you are Awarded a National Honour from a Country / International Institution / Sovereign then I would say it is a disgrace or some cases Treason to sell or pawn the award. The Medal's I have from my time in the UK Armed forces, have my name on them and Service No, but they are not mine, they are Awarded by the Sovereign and therefore can only be taken off me by the Sovereigns order, I am merely the Custodian. It is technically not an offence (for a Civilian) to sell your Medals although you are selling something that doesn't belong to you, but it is considered bad form and contemptuous to the Crown, many are passed down through generations and they will end up in a collection or sold to collectors.

For example I would consider the following Disgraceful:-

1. Selling the "Congressional Medal of Honor" or similar award you have been given.
2. Selling a "Victoria Cross" or similar award you have been given.
3. Rescinding/ disavowing a "Knighthood/peerage from the Sovereign after being invested".
4. Selling or disavowing a NOBEL prize after accepting it.

As the Slayer Sword isn't anything like any of these examples I would say he is free to do what he likes with it.

mwnciboo wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:


The thing is, with respect to those things that you find disrespectful to sell, if the winner of the medal is in a bad place or selling them helps him family live more comfortably, then more power to them i say.
afterall he is still the winner of X medal, even if he does not have it.

If you are still serving in the military it is an Offence, if you are civilian and do it, you can actually be stripped of the award and have to return the Medal or else you will have to Pay for it. There are precedents for this, but given it is the Crown Courts and Crown Magistrates it is likely you wouldn't get a fair trial and it wouldn't stand up. But Victoria Cross recipients have been stripped of it before:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Victoria_Cross_forfeitures

Just because you received an Award doesn't make it yours, you can be stripped of it, and no longer allowed to have the privilege and entitlements it bestows. Selling something that doesn't strictly belong to you is a considerable problem, especially as possession is 9 tenths of the Law.

Equally many awards come with a Stipend or Monetary Award, stripping of the Award may well require you to pay back the stipend as you have broken the terms of the Award.

With modern Newspapers etc it would be a PR disaster all round, however if we looked after our returning Sailors, Soldiers and Airmen a bit better it wouldn't be much of an issue. As it stands it is likely to get worse over the next 20 years as PTSD manifests.

Anyway OT, selling a sword you get as a trophy for painting little men is a non-issue.

Well put and agreed.

I also thought the amount was 600 not 6000.

I don't think morals come into it - he might not want a big sword lying around (strange fellow).

I would say he's asking too much as it can only really have significance for the winner - personally I don't see why anyone would want to buy it. I'd feel better if he auctioned it off for a charity (at least a % donation to one) but it's his call at the end of the day.

My feeling about it is, He won it he can do what he wants with it.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Warhammer-40k-Nurgle-Chaos-Marine-Army-Legitimately-Pro-Painted-Adepticon-2011-/190740586753?pt=Games_US&hash=item2c69066101

This guy won a raffle prize at last years Adepticon and is now selling it.

Ohh or you can get this "Emmy"
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dinah-Shore-Original-1957-Emmy-Award-Dinah-Shore-Show-/170916050082?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27cb63f4a2

or you could get an olympic gold medal
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-GOLD-MEDAL-OLYMPIC-DIPLOMA-PRESIDENT-CORTINA-D-AMPEZZO-XRARE-/350622617032?pt=US_Olympics_Fan_Shop&hash=item51a2bc8dc8

Its just a cheap wallhanger representing a victory in a hobby painting contest. Thats all.
On the other hand if i was to ebay the sword of my grandgrandfather and his pistols, that would be a shame and disgrace.

Unsubscribed.

I had to sell my 65 Mustang years ago due to paying for my kids college. And I loved that car more than my kids. A lot more. I would be more concerned about the guy buying and claiming he earned it.

Yeah I don't think morals come into it here.

Guy earned a slayer sword, doesn't like it, sells it, no biggie.

Moving this in a slightly different direction, isn't it interesting that many of the Companies that supported Lance Armstrong are actively considering or demanding the money they gave as sponsorship to be returned.

If we were to apply this to the Slayer Sword, what would everyone's opinion be if GW asked for it back? (this a purely hypothetical point I was just curious as the Lance Armstrong case has brought this particular scenario to light). What rights do sponsors have? and is this different if you have been found to be cheating/ illegal? What if you have been found to do something controversial but not illegal? What about things that aren't illegal but are still disgraceful, taking steroids etc . (I've never considered this in any depth)

If he hadn't earned it (ie there was cheating) then recovery of the trophy/prize is acceptable. As he won it fair and square, it's his to do with as he pleases.

What if the Sponsor decided that the selling of a Sword invalidated the entire point of the competition? And therefore wanted it back? I'm playing devils adovcate here, as my position is already laid out above that it's his and he can do what he likes but I am interested to hear of any examples where sponsors of competitions have felt that their prize has been treated in an ungracious manner and have pulled support?

 mwnciboo wrote:
What if the Sponsor decided that the selling of a Sword invalidated the entire point of the competition? And therefore wanted it back? I'm playing devils adovcate here, as my position is already laid out above that it's his and he can do what he likes but I am interested to hear of any examples where sponsors of competitions have felt that their prize has been treated in an ungracious manner and have pulled support?

Perfectly legit to me.

There are plenty of non national/international/military awards which are still considered to be the property of their grantor and not the grantee. (ex. Academy Awards)
However, if this was not in writing or made known in advance of the investiture/awarding, then there are no grounds by which the organization can reclaim the "trophy" as it ceases to be theirs.

Nope, we're not transitioning this very straightforward topic into a bunch of hypothetical situations, interesting or not. Feel free to wander into OT to discuss those.

In the meantime, I think we're done here.