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Look at the reaction to his election and the commentaries before. He even won the Nobel prize for Peace in 2009 before doing anything evidently it was for being elected and black.
Part of the message of 'hope' was leaving ethnic divisions in the past, it was a huge conscience salve for America.
Sure it was, but do you really think there were a significant number of white people who chose to vote for Obama for no other reason than he was black?
Not for no other reason. Few people make political viting choices for just one reason, but was it a factor. yes it was. The media and Nobel laureate committee (mnetioned solely as a material example) was all over it in 2009.
I think the problem that you're running into is in assuming race is a major component of any given person's identity, tribal or not, when this is not necessarily true. No doubt being black (and that doesn't just mean in terms of skin tone) often has a significant impact on how a person defines themselves, but that has more to do with a common heritage vis a vis slavery and persecution leading to the development of a unique sub-culture.
There is a definite identity as African American which covers a lot of different racial groups and origins, after all there are a lot of black Americans whose direct ancestors had nothing in common with the salve trade. Plenty of blacks ancestors arrived in New York docks looking for a life for themselves rather than dragged in chains from slave ships. I would not be surprised if thr descendents of slaves were a minority of the black population.
Being white, on the other hand, breeds no such sense of identity; at least not among the people who would be willing to vote for Obama. People that emphasize their whiteness generally aren't going to be persuaded to vote anything other than Republican, at least absent some weird minority party.
Sure enough. White in the US usually means European ancestry, with Hispanic as a separate category, though Hispanics need not be caucasian. When it comes for the whites that Americans usually vote for it usually means Wasps, Irish Americans, Italian Americans or Jews. By and large it matters relatively little which of the above you are if any, though being of Irish descent specifically helps in some places. White ethnicity may have its effects on localised politics but at a national level I don't really see the difference frankly. From congress up it doesnt really matter too much if someone is from which part of Europe, with notable exception of the Iberian peninsula so long as they were white Americans. The racial eligibility of Americas past was so ingrained as to not require stating.
Of course race matters in elections, I never said that it didn't. I'm simply disputing your claim that a significant number of people voted for Obama over McCain because of white guilt. You would have a much better case if you were to consider Obama's defeat of Hillary, but even then its overshadowed by the way Hillary was often regarded as "part of the problem" by younger Democratic voters.
What White Guilt did was make the concept of voting for a black president acceptable, and yes that had more to do with the Democrats choice of candidate rather than Obama vs McCain. That issue was decided on Obama being not-Bush Mk3.
i dont think it has been long since the idea of a black president was first feasible, I also think that the fictional portrayals of black presidents in Hollywood had more than a little to do with it.
You misunderstand, I don't deny that Obama's race had a noticeable impact on the electorate, especially the black vote. What I deny is that "white" can be considered a tribal identity of any sort, at least among people willing to vote for a Democrat. I also deny this claim with respect to "black", but I can least understand the argument; though "culture" is a better term than "tribe".
Tribalism doesn't require an actual, 'tribe'. Its a concept generally referring to keeping in with ones own kind. You can have for example interstate tribalism, I don't know if there is but I can give very clear parellels with English society. Here is one: 'Geordie vs Scouser' that is the intense 'tribal' rivalry between elements of the population of Liverpool and Sunderland. That is tribalism between those who both could be considered for want of a better term as ethnically English. Its likely parallels exist between cultures within the US that you will see more clearly than an outsider.
Tribalism also scales up and down. there is an old Arabic saying heavily paraphrased: 'I struggle with my brothers, yet I unite with them against my cousins, my family will unit against the village, my village will unite against the next clan and my clan will unite against the world.'
These divisions tend to have as focal level which is to some extend automatic or subliminal. These foci can be challenged, like having a non-white President. How difficult was it to vote in the first or any other Irish American president? It was hardly noticed except in passing, Irish American shared white eligibility as naturally as most other whites. Yet we are a long way off the eligibility of a Hispanic leader. The reason for that is simple, in America especially in the media there is a need to do right for the black man. This started with token black in the boardrooms and token black as major characters in media presentations. Hispanic hasn't reached that plateau yet, Hispanics are still stereotyped quite heavily, there is no need to place a Hispanic in the board to 'prove' you are not a racist company, there is no need to have positive Hispanic figures in cinema or drama, in fact the opposite may be true.
The unthinkability of a Hispanic president is still there, and having a concept being unthinkable is by definition an unconscious state. People are not for the most part aware to say 'what about us' for the Hispanic community, white guilt has not reached that far yet and they have not even had a Hispanic Malcolm X yet, let alone a Hispanic Barack Obama.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
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While it isn't likely, if Romney wins, I will be very very angry. I may have to go Asuka on his arse. And the arse of every nitwit who voted for him. Seriously. The guy is a moron.
Squigsquasher, resident ban magnet, White Knight, and general fethwit.
buddha wrote: I've decided that these GW is dead/dying threads that pop up every-week must be followers and cultists of nurgle perpetuating the need for decay. I therefore declare that that such threads are heresy and subject to exterminatus. So says the Inquisition!
Squigsquasher wrote: While it isn't likely, if Romney wins, I will be very very angry. I may have to go Asuka on his arse. And the arse of every nitwit who voted for him. Seriously. The guy is a moron.
Squigsquasher wrote: While it isn't likely, if Romney wins, I will be very very angry. I may have to go Asuka on his arse. And the arse of every nitwit who voted for him. Seriously. The guy is a moron.
Looks at Squiggy's flag...
Looks at mine...
You can stay there!
Kind of ironic isn't it, especially since our government seems to think they should have control over who a lot of other countries elect
Squigsquasher wrote: While it isn't likely, if Romney wins, I will be very very angry. I may have to go Asuka on his arse. And the arse of every nitwit who voted for him. Seriously. The guy is a moron.
Looks at Squiggy's flag...
Looks at mine...
You can stay there!
Kind of ironic isn't it, especially since our government seems to think they should have control over who a lot of other countries elect
Yah...
Why is there so much interest to whom would be our Prez?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Polls.. smolls...
Romney has his best day of polling:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/13 19:30:45
d-usa wrote: Because our country tries to mess with every other country on the planet?
I thought we was popular 'cuz of our crazy shows?
I'd be interested to hear from non-American Dakkanauts as to why there's so much interest in our politics...
Because the US has more impact then any other nation on the planet.
Okay... I get that... but, how do YOU follow it?
Is our politics all over the Canadian news? Are we that prevalent?
We don't see gak from Canada/Mexico... and nada from those accross the pond...
Your TV shows, music, movies, politics, etc plays a dominate role in our culture. We have all sorts of news in Canada you can listen to the local, provincial, national and/or international level.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/13 20:01:48
d-usa wrote: Because our country tries to mess with every other country on the planet?
I thought we was popular 'cuz of our crazy shows?
I'd be interested to hear from non-American Dakkanauts as to why there's so much interest in our politics...
Because the US has more impact then any other nation on the planet.
Okay... I get that... but, how do YOU follow it?
Is our politics all over the Canadian news? Are we that prevalent?
We don't see gak from Canada/Mexico... and nada from those accross the pond...
Your TV shows, music, movies, politics, etc plays a dominate role in our culture. We have all sorts of news in Canada you can listen to the local, provincial, national and/or international level.
Okay.. .thanks
Sometimes I feel like an ignorant 'murrican cuz I can't name your PM (or anyone else's)...
The centre of a massive brood chamber, heaving and pulsating.
Squid Girl for president. Then we shall truly be free, and we shall rejoice, basking in the sun and eating shrimp.
De geso!
Squigsquasher, resident ban magnet, White Knight, and general fethwit.
buddha wrote: I've decided that these GW is dead/dying threads that pop up every-week must be followers and cultists of nurgle perpetuating the need for decay. I therefore declare that that such threads are heresy and subject to exterminatus. So says the Inquisition!
The centre of a massive brood chamber, heaving and pulsating.
Erm, nope.
Squigsquasher, resident ban magnet, White Knight, and general fethwit.
buddha wrote: I've decided that these GW is dead/dying threads that pop up every-week must be followers and cultists of nurgle perpetuating the need for decay. I therefore declare that that such threads are heresy and subject to exterminatus. So says the Inquisition!
Colonel Meow doesn't care about the humie minions.
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No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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d-usa wrote: Because our country tries to mess with every other country on the planet?
I thought we was popular 'cuz of our crazy shows?
I'd be interested to hear from non-American Dakkanauts as to why there's so much interest in our politics...
Because our politics are boring as Hell, like a functioning representative democracy, and your politics are bizarre and full of clowns like a circus sideshow: we're happy to have ours, whilst we watch yours strictly for entertainment.
But Canadian mainstream media doesn't really give any meaningful amount of time to your elections, even on slow news days. Locally, I've seen old-people-feeding-ducks-in-the-park-stories lead ahead of US politics on news programs (also one of the reasons I rarely bother with television news).
Orlanth wrote: The media and Nobel laureate committee (mnetioned solely as a material example) was all over it in 2009.
What evidence do you have to suggest that Obama won the Peace Prize for getting elected and being black? He ran on a campaign of reconciliation regarding international politics in the wake of Presidency that was widely regarded as overly brazen, and its not like the Peace Prize is actually given according to substantive action.
And yes, the media made significant note of the fact that he was first black President, because he is the first black President. That's important because of the history of race in America, but I doubt very much it caused a significant number of white people to vote for him.
There is a definite identity as African American which covers a lot of different racial groups and origins, after all there are a lot of black Americans whose direct ancestors had nothing in common with the salve trade.
No, that's incorrect. First, it covers only one racial group: black. Second, there is a distinction between black as a race, and black as a culture. Black as a race is not unique to the United States, but black as a culture is. You can be black in the United States, and yet not be black at all. The impolite way of phrasing this is "Uncle Tom", but it also encompasses black African immigrants (African Americans), and black people with a Caribbean heritage.
What White Guilt did was make the concept of voting for a black president acceptable, and yes that had more to do with the Democrats choice of candidate rather than Obama vs McCain.
Additionally, you can't overstate how many people in my generation really dislike Hillary. Primarily because she is very much a direct, no-nonsense, person who put up with a philandering husband.
Tribalism doesn't require an actual, 'tribe'. Its a concept generally referring to keeping in with ones own kind.
Yes, one's own tribe. Not a literal tribe in the sense of, say, the Tikrit; but still an identity group. I can't keep to my kind if my kind is not a thing. This is important from a liberal perspective because many, many liberals see their "kind" as something which is not substantively affected by race.
The unthinkability of a Hispanic president is still there, and having a concept being unthinkable is by definition an unconscious state. People are not for the most part aware to say 'what about us' for the Hispanic community, white guilt has not reached that far yet and they have not even had a Hispanic Malcolm X yet, let alone a Hispanic Barack Obama.
I don't think a Hispanic President is unthinkable. For evidence, I'll cite Marco Rubio.
Is America going to elect Danny Trejo? No, but the idea of a Hispanic President isn't beyond the veil to such an extent that Hispanics (such an awful category) need a Malcolm X or MLK figure.
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
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