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So , recently a friend of mine unloaded a crap load of SM stuff on me and I decided for the first time in 10 years to do up a Marine army. Because our clubs SM chapters are Salamnders, 3 X Grey Knights , Space wolves and 2X Blood angels, I went with the Black Templars just to be different, fully understanding I'd be working with a 4th ed codex. Spending as much time as I could (And still am ) restoring, rebuilding and repainting these models to table readiness, I finally downloaded the GW 6th update to the BT codex. WTF????AM I missing something here?
Forget the ridiculous fact that our Tech marine is more expenssive than the standard SM one, he has'nt be updated to give him "Bolster Defenses"? They've done nothing to make the Emperor's Champion more competitive against other marine / chaos chapters. There is a whole slew of vehicles that were released after the BT codex was put out, (IE Land Raider Redemer, Thunderfire Cannon) , yet no mention as to weather or not I can use them? Looking at SM Sterngaurd, I am now staring at my Swordbrethern wondering why they come up short?
Seriously, Am I missing somethig here, that everyone else understands and I do not? Can anyone out there give me a better perspective on the 6th updates?

Your post reads like: *insert crying here*

Your problems can be solved with allies.

If you really knew what you were getting into this would never have been a problem, I suggest you read things before you start modelling and painting in the future.

"Your post reads like: *insert crying here*

Your problems can be solved with allies.

If you really knew what you were getting into this would never have been a problem, I suggest you read things before you start modelling and painting in the future. "

Right , Griddlelol: Thanks for reminding me why its months between my trips to Dakka Dakka. Folks like you and your ever useful Sarcasim and useless wit. This is a hobby of mine, meant to be fun. Guys like you turn it into a banner to be waved around and have turned this site into something I hate resorting to. Get over yourself. Please.

To be clear, I am simplily asking if anything else was put up besides the 6th Edition codex update that I should know about.

 Griddlelol wrote:
Your post reads like: *insert crying here*

Your problems can be solved with allies.

If you really knew what you were getting into this would never have been a problem, I suggest you read things before you start modelling and painting in the future.

You'd have a point if it weren't for the fact that GW DID feth Black Templars over with the 6th Edition FAQs, nerfing us in several ways of which none were really needed:

*No more Drop Pods for Terminators

*Mandatory D6" consolidate on Righteous Zeal

*Removal of Preferred Enemy in CC in exchange for Rage on AAC, NTMO

*No Characters except Independent Characters (not really the FAQ's fault I guess, but still).


On a more constructive note, our Techmarines are more expensive because they have 2 wounds and access to the Armoury. 2+/3++ Techmarine with 7 Power Fist equivalent attacks on the charge is pretty nice.

Nope. Sadly BTs have received no love. Its a shame.

Almighty Walrus Thank you for for the input.
I guess I had'nt factored the Tech Marine wounds. I just thought the difference in points was odd and to not have Bolster defenses , I was hoping,was an oversight by GW that had been fixed somewhere else. I mean, 6th edition has made objective based games King, I would have liked to have benifited from that rule. Oh well, I just won't field him.

 worldwarme wrote:

Right , Griddlelol: Thanks for reminding me why its months between my trips to Dakka Dakka. Folks like you and your ever useful Sarcasim and useless wit. This is a hobby of mine, meant to be fun. Guys like you turn it into a banner to be waved around and have turned this site into something I hate resorting to. Get over yourself. Please.

Despite you not liking my post or the ridicule, it's still valid. Allies will fix your problems. You can easily field it as a C:SM army with BT allies, or vice versa to get the units you want.
Maybe you should think before you post, or for that matter before you model and paint.

You can always run them using some other marine codex if you are not satisfied with the rules. Blood Angels would probably be a good fit.

"Despite you not liking my post or the ridicule, it's still valid. Allies will fix your problems. You can easily field it as a C:SM army with BT allies, or vice versa to get the units you want.
Maybe you should think before you post, or for that matter before you model and paint. "

Actually its not. If you read my first post , I said I was fully aware of the fact I'd be using Forth edition and 6th update/ FAQ.(( I simpily hadn't seen isaid update yet). I also stated the reasons for choosing that army, which you have continued to say I hadn't thought about. Yes I am well aware of Allies. I simply wanted to field an all Templar list, that is why I have'nt talked about allies.
Perhaps you should think before you post, sir, as to weather or not what you have to say needs to be heard. I assure you, it does not. Feel free to not continue posting if this poor attitude is all you are bringing to me.
To everyone else, Thank you for the input, you've confirmed my suspicions and and given me the answers I needed.

They can still perform at times. HQ in TA gives you access to the Terminator Command Squad. Sergeant gets PW/SS, add either 2 cyclones or AC. HQ gets TH/SS. Now it's a shooty termie unit with 3++ to eat some shots. The TH HQ to challenge/smash, or the PW/SS sergeant to challenge at initative. TH lets you reroll the AC to get those rends on armor pen. You can even take a marshall, 5 termies, and a chaplain and it is all one HQ slot! Perfect for crusaders/Deep strike! It's my new favorite BT trick.

Agreed, they do have some cool benifits that were'nt nerfed. I Actaully run my list with a Land raider crusader, a Terminator Chaplain attched to a Sword Brethern CC squad with 4 Thunder hammer/ storm shield and 3 Lightening claws, I have played one game with them so far and won (Against The Blood angels).
Despite one person's opinion, I actually chose this army after a lot of consideration, (Came down to this or Dark Angels). I actually liked the fact they were always moving forward . The only thing I was put off about was the manditory selection of the Emperors Champion. I don't find him very competitive and do feel he should have been a choice, not a must. However, again, his vows and the Crusader seals do help to close the gaps on the battlefield ,

I guess I was a little shocked at how much the FAQ did not address, either on purpose or thru neglect. I am just hoping the evetual 6th ed codex will grant us some of the more current standard marine stuff. Example; the Land Raider Redemeer. We were allowed the Standard LR, and the Crusaider, (Which, if I'm not wrong were the only 2 aavailable from GW at the time that codex was put out) I think it would've been reasonable to mention its inclusion into the BT list within the FAQ.

 worldwarme wrote:
I went with the Black Templars just to be different, fully understanding I'd be working with a 4th ed codex.

It seems like you didn't fully understand.

Steelmage99 wrote:

 worldwarme wrote:
I went with the Black Templars just to be different, fully understanding I'd be working with a 4th ed codex.

It seems like you didn't fully understand.

Perhaps " Fully Understanding" Is a key term here. I acknowledged that the 4th and FAQ/6th updates were what I'd be working with until a new Codex was available. I just expected better 6th updates. None the less, I stand by my choice to use this army.

It seems the intent of my post got lost early on.
Simply put, I was hoping some one out there knew of another update, retraction or additional FAQ that brought other details of the Black templars to light. Apparently, this will not be the case (Which is fine).
And before someone says it, I am in a small military town with no Games Workshop or local gaming store to discuss this with. I am a busy man and do not spend much time surfing Dakka Dakka anymore, partially for the fact that for every three useful responses I get, I get at least one person that post some useless or sarcastic quip, (Often in a manner I doubt they would deliver if they were face to face with that person).
Isee it far too often on this sight and wonder why?

Please stop suggesting allies. Puppies and starving Korean children die every time you do, because "use allies lol" does not solve the problem of a codex sucking balls. It just helps dance around it.

Bwahaahahahahahahaaaaa!!!
Thank you!
You nailed that point home.
Not to mention the fact that our little club out here tends to play 2000-2500 pt games. I really don't want to field an Allied force at that little points spread.

Do you consider 2000-2500 points a small points-value to play at?

BlaxicanX wrote:
Please stop suggesting allies. Puppies and starving Korean children die every time you do, because "use allies lol" does not solve the problem of a codex sucking balls. It just helps dance around it.

Oh yeah, you're right it doesn't. Let me go suggest another way to fix a crappy codex.

No one is suggesting allies solve the BT codex problems, merely stating allies fixes the issues it has by using something else. I'm afraid everyone is going to have to wait until after Dark Angels, Eldar and Tau before Black Templars are due to be fixed in any reasonable way. Until late 2013 or 2014, allies are about the only band-aid that can be applied to get around the problems OP was complaining so intensely about.

In response to OP's other complaint about seeing "sarcastic quips":

I doubt you'd see so many if you didn't come on bitching about something that could easily have been researched by spending 30 seconds looking it up. Nor would you see so many if you were asking a real question as opposed to the "please agree with my pointless whining" which your posts have been.

why arent you using a BA codex [ you would get slogger assault marines , better then crusder squads if you want to do melee and you can ally in or take BA tacticals if you want also hvy weapons. you could also take SR for your units. or you could take SW with better all around troops and sword brether leaders for squads. GW if it ever does something with old armies , then it is nerf them so you buy the new ones

Makumba wrote:
why arent you using a BA codex [ you would get slogger assault marines , better then crusder squads if you want to do melee and you can ally in or take BA tacticals if you want also hvy weapons. you could also take SR for your units. or you could take SW with better all around troops and sword brether leaders for squads. GW if it ever does something with old armies , then it is nerf them so you buy the new ones

...because he wants to play Black Templars, not Blood Angels or Space Wolves?

Well. I assume allies is out of the question for you based on the previous posts, so I would suggest go mechanized. The fact that your troops can take land raiders as transports is pretty nice. This frees your heavy slots for predators. Give your initiates ccw and bolt pistols so they can charge out of the land raider. Use predators pick off enemy tanks and deep strike some dreadnoughts to draw fire off of your land raiders and take a few shots at vehicles. This is a little pricey on the points. I usually play 2k and up games, but this tactic has worked with my marines. Hope this helped.

Steelmage99 wote:

"Do you consider 2000-2500 points a small points-value to play at? "

No, not at all. I just don't see dividing it up into BT and allies as worth it.



BlaxicanX wrote:
"Please stop suggesting allies. Puppies and starving Korean children die every time you do, because "use allies lol" does not solve the problem of a codex sucking balls. It just helps dance around it. "

Griddlelol Wrote:

"Oh yeah, you're right it doesn't. Let me go suggest another way to fix a crappy codex.

No one is suggesting allies solve the BT codex problems, merely stating allies fixes the issues it has by using something else. I'm afraid everyone is going to have to wait until after Dark Angels, Eldar and Tau before Black Templars are due to be fixed in any reasonable way. Until late 2013 or 2014, allies are about the only band-aid that can be applied to get around the problems OP was complaining so intensely about "

I was actually pointing out discrepancies that should have been addressed in 6th Ed faq/ update. I understand the allies is a way to go about it (And I agree that it is the way to get around some of the BT lacking assets, but then its not Black Templars is it. I also agree that I will have to just sit back and wait for the new codex which will be a long time from now) But......sigh....as I stated here, (A couple of times now), I was looking to see if " I Had Missed Something". If perhaps there was an ammendment to what I had read and not known about it, etc. You've chosen to read it as a rant with no point and no worth while question.
Why?
(Answer: I am the first person on Dakka Dakka to Ever complain the Black Templars being broken or to ask questions about their new army. )

Griddlelol then wrote:

"In response to OP's other complaint about seeing "sarcastic quips":

I doubt you'd see so many if you didn't come on bitching about something that could easily have been researched by spending 30 seconds looking it up. Nor would you see so many if you were asking a real question as opposed to the "please agree with my pointless whining" which your posts have been. "

Are you actually reading the post or just thinking of awsome things to say? I did do the research and decided to log on Dakka (as the final stage of said research) and ask if there was more info to be had out there, somewhere. I'm Not sure where you get the notion I hadn't put an effort in. And as far as asking a "Real Question": Hmmmmm Your right. You can be the official Judge as to what makes up a real question with my army. (Please submit your findings elsewhere.)
Not once have asked anyone to agree nor disagree with anything I've said, so thanks for reading into my posts (but you are translating them wrong). Of course I'm not entirely sure you Have been reading them all beacause you missed the part where I said this:

"Perhaps you should think before you post, sir, as to weather or not what you have to say needs to be heard. I assure you, it does not. Feel free to not continue posting if this poor attitude is all you are bringing to me. "

Griddlelol:
That was an invetation to you in particular to ignore this thread. But as you seem to be The Authority on sensible attitude on responses, I assumed you would'nt . ( Please reconsider.) Your input was noted. Move on. Shhhhhhh.

"Makumba wrote:
why arent you using a BA codex [ you would get slogger assault marines , better then crusder squads if you want to do melee and you can ally in or take BA tacticals if you want also hvy weapons. you could also take SR for your units. or you could take SW with better all around troops and sword brether leaders for squads. GW if it ever does something with old armies , then it is nerf them so you buy the new ones"

to which AlmightyWalrus wrote:

"...because he wants to play Black Templars, not Blood Angels or Space Wolves? "

Exactly, thank you. My friends at the club have offered me that sollution as well, but they also understand the desire to play a proper army list from the right codex.

Thank you everyone, (Even Griddlelol in a way), for the input.
The answers I have recieved , that I was or was not looking for:
Use allies
Use a different codex
wait for new codex
And the one I was actually hunting for:
There is no ammendment or addition to the Black Templars 6th Edition update/ FAQ.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

ironhammer2194 wrote:
Well. I assume allies is out of the question for you based on the previous posts, so I would suggest go mechanized. The fact that your troops can take land raiders as transports is pretty nice. This frees your heavy slots for predators. Give your initiates ccw and bolt pistols so they can charge out of the land raider. Use predators pick off enemy tanks and deep strike some dreadnoughts to draw fire off of your land raiders and take a few shots at vehicles. This is a little pricey on the points. I usually play 2k and up games, but this tactic has worked with my marines. Hope this helped.

Actually , Thats pretty much what I've done. And yes, that helped me affirm that I am doing all that can be done, so thank you.

I was reading, but now it's a case of tl;dr - probably just complaining more anyway.

Wow. Even after all that ....Lol. Just could'nt help yourself, eh? (Not sure what you are meaning by tl;dr)

too long didn't read

As Walrus pointed out, BT techmarines are the BEST techies in the game (even without BD). 2 wounds, a metric $h!+ ton of attacks, access to a stormshield, terminator armor (only w/out harness), lightning claws, etc, etc. Your disappointment in the rest of the army after FAQs is valid though-they did get hit hard. Walrus pointed out the worst things. They don't even seem playable anymore-I've shelved mine, and MAY pick them back up if they get a new codex. Depends if Warpath steals me away completely. I'm not ruling it out.

timetowaste85 :

Yeah, I must admit, I hadn't thought too long or too hard about the Techpreist, aside from the missing Bolster rule. I supose that is a fair trade off. I'm going to have to examine fielding one more closely. Points wise, on a 2000 pt list, I am wondering if he is actually worth fielding vrs something else. You've Given me something to consider, so thank you.

Hlaine Larkin mk2 :
Thank you. I'll miss his input.

No sweat. I love BTs, and I was sad when they were damaged by FAQ. If el_hammer is correct, and you can attach a chaplain to a Marshal's Command squad without sucking up a second HQ slot to do it, then try running a chaplain with servitors, a command squad of 10, Helbrecht, and a techmarine in one unit, and a second unit of Grimaldus, a techy and a Marshal with full command squad. The special characters are there so Grimmy can soak a high powered wound, plus those guys give you access to extra bodies: something sorely needed in an expensive unit. And with the servitors adding to your movement value, it'll really have your opponent crapping kittens when your decked-to-the-tits combat squads are on him after a single round of shooting with a couple characters in each that hit like a ton of bricks, plus the rage you will have from your EC. Follow it up with some land speeders and small crusader squads with lascannons, and you should be golden. Or at least have fun with how much it pisses off your opponent that his high strength shots get tossed onto neophytes and servitors. Should be good for a laugh or two.

lol. I actually have the models to try this tactic( I'm suprised). Much thanks!

I haven't done it, mind you-I'm adding that wisdom from el_hammer's post. I have no idea how it will turn out-PM me to let me know how it goes-I'm curious, as I too have the models to pull it off. Also, TML on the speeders has been fixed, so keep them plentiful.

Terminator Command Squads are where it's at; don't bother attaching a Chaplain, it gets expensive fast. Also, make sure to use all your Elites slots every time you can. Terminators (both kinds), Techmarines and Dreadnoughts are all fine. The double CML TH Terminator squad can't be emphasised enough; get one, they're awesome.