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 Grey Templar wrote:
Both would be my guess

More than likely, the point was a serious one though, everyone thinks they know it all when they are 16, thats why teenagers are so fething horrible!

But how many grow up and say to their parents "Sorry about the teens folks..."

The point is, you think you know everything as a teenager, you think your old man is a square and he knows nothing, because at that age you cant see the painfully obvious fact is that your Dad did all the same gak you did. I was simply saying that really, is 16 old enough to vote? I don't think 18 is, and would happily settle for 21.

In fact, judging by what the average Joe knows about politics, I think you should be 21, and have to pass a psychological evaluation and an IQ test before you can fething vote!

I agree, heck I think that should be mandatory for citizenship. You take a test at 21 to see if you can become a full citizen.

 Castiel wrote:
I believe a recent poll showed that they were more likely to vote to stay in the Union, because they don't know as much, but know that the current system is working fine.

Well, the current 14 and 15 year olds are now going to be subjected to 2 years of propaganda and it's a lot easier to put across "SCOTLAND HUR!" than something more complex, such as the benefit of being in the union.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I agree, heck I think that should be mandatory for citizenship. You take a test at 21 to see if you can become a full citizen.

Too easy to politically influence the test.

 mattyrm wrote:
I noticed a typo as well, I meant raised to 21.

Maybe I'm just stupider and more rash than most.. but I think I my mouth was always a gallop before my brain was in the saddle until I was well into my twenties.

Maybe thats why I got punched so often?

Hmm.. I thought that was just Middlesbrough!

Minimum voting age should be 30, and proof made that you have a basic understanding of economics...

Would shooting nationalists not just be simpler?

 Frazzled wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
I noticed a typo as well, I meant raised to 21.

Maybe I'm just stupider and more rash than most.. but I think I my mouth was always a gallop before my brain was in the saddle until I was well into my twenties.

Maybe thats why I got punched so often?

Hmm.. I thought that was just Middlesbrough!

Minimum voting age should be 30, and proof made that you have a basic understanding of economics...

That rules out 90% of Westminster...

 SilverMK2 wrote:
,...such as the benefit of being in the union.

Or the benefits of independence.

Every Scotsman just needs to pull out his Bagpipes and march on London. A hundred thousand bagpipers in the streets, and behold, the Scottish annexation of the southlands is complete.

I believe that's what happened in 1707 and started all this trouble in the first place.

How many 16-17 year old's do you realistically expect to vote?

Actually quite a lot. In Scotland we have a much higher membership of junior political parties than the rest of the UK.

And I don't like how they took out the "No to independence but yes to more political powers" option.

This x1k, when the consultation was out this was one of the many options I suggested as its obvious us Scots aren't very happy with our current situation.
But to what degree, that is what we Really need to find out.

when leaving the Union will have absolutely no benefits for the country.

Then from this comment I take it one hasn't read the GERS report, no not the one about the football club but, the Governments Economic Spending Review Scotland. Some very interesting reading to be had believe you me.

I'm not going to deny I'm a nationalist and an SNP member. For years I've voted and added my voice to the independence movement as much as I can and I'm delighted that this is all finalised. My nationalism isn't born from some petty hatred of our English neighbours. I have had many great times with and met many lovely people from south of our border and I'm proud to call some of them my friends. None of that for me is going to change when independence does come.

For me its the problems that we have in Scotland that are effectively being ignored. The chronic health problems, the drink situation,(we've had these for decades and nothing has been done) the cocaine epidemic that's sweeping our country, the utter lack of investment in Scottish infra-structure over the last 30 years, the slow privatisation of our NHS, the inherent corruption within our police, the dumbing down of our children and our education system, the scandalous PFI agreements, the systematic withdrawal of almost all military bases and personnel from Scotland over the last 10 years( if you want to know more about that I recommend the MOD review on what Scottish independence means for the UK Military).

For too many years I have watched Scotland get stripped apart little bits at a time. No More. Its now Scotland's time to take responsibility for her own failings. We have no-one but ourselves to blame for the current S T state Scotland is in and I can only hope that when the time does come we stand up and believe in ourselves and as cheesy as it may sound, be a nation again.

Cheers.

=/ Teenagers may not know much, but see what they're feeling are after another two years under Tory rule in a recession.

...I foresee the "Thatcher" card being pulled a few times in the coming years.

* Also, why is it that with every independence related article there's plenty of derogatory comments thrown about, and yet no one seems to care? I'm sure the Irish dislike being called Paddies, and I'll tell you that I'd be none to happy about a foreigner calling me a Jock in a similar manner. =P

Teenagers are fething idiots. I'm irritated enough that 18 year olds can vote (it should be 21 imo), if my country's future was decided by the opinions of children...I'd be pretty pissed, regardless of the outcome.

^^' Yeah, but I'm sure its just another way of the SNP squeezing out some more votes.

I do agree with the Ex pats thing though. To my recollection you're now only allowed to vote if you return to the country and live there for two years.

Also, how will soldiers vote? Are they even allowed to?




...Gary Tank Commander. There, that's the way we'll politicise Scottish independence .

 Testify wrote:
Teenagers are fething idiots. I'm irritated enough that 18 year olds can vote (it should be 21 imo), if my country's future was decided by the opinions of children...I'd be pretty pissed, regardless of the outcome.

A vote is a vote. I don't see what the problem is. Adults are just as mindlessly biased and temperamental in their decisions as teenagers. You sound like a serious dip-stick.

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Teenagers are fething idiots. I'm irritated enough that 18 year olds can vote (it should be 21 imo), if my country's future was decided by the opinions of children...I'd be pretty pissed, regardless of the outcome.

A vote is a vote. I don't see what the problem is. Adults are just as mindlessly biased and temperamental in their decisions as teenagers. You sound like a serious ass.

16 year olds are idiots. If you don't see the difference between the actions of a 30 year old and a 16 year old then you know some very odd people.

 Testify wrote:

 Samus_aran115 wrote:

 Testify wrote:
Teenagers are fething idiots. I'm irritated enough that 18 year olds can vote (it should be 21 imo), if my country's future was decided by the opinions of children...I'd be pretty pissed, regardless of the outcome.

A vote is a vote. I don't see what the problem is. Adults are just as mindlessly biased and temperamental in their decisions as teenagers. You sound like a serious ass.

16 year olds are idiots. If you don't see the difference between the actions of a 30 year old and a 16 year old then you know some very odd people.

Er, I thought you were talking about 18 year olds. I didn't read into it enough. Sorry.

For an issue this serious, I don't think 16-17s should have a legitimate say in the matter, as they aren't full citizens, and most likely don't pay taxes. I'm sure there at least a couple of them that have an educated opinion, but they're probably outnumbered by people who have a biased, emotionally skewed position.

16 year olds are pretty dumb though. They basically believe what ever their parents tell them OR exactly the opposite. Trying to educate them on topical issues is like explaining to a child which power ranger is the best. They won't listen, and they'll have the same opinion that they started with

¬¬ So kids are stupid? So are adults. Why not base it off of IQ levels then? No, that's discriminating. Experiences? How many people walk into their polling offices and just tick the same box year after year without listening to any of the parties waffle? Its going to effect their immediate futures more than toddlers, so no use in complaining that the vote's going to cover a later demographic.

Oh, and kids in the Uk are citizens. Sure they don't have full rights, but I know a fair few people who've been living on their own since they turned 16. If you can hold a job then why can't you vote?

 Wyrmalla wrote:
¬¬ So kids are stupid? So are adults. Why not base it off of IQ levels then? No, that's discriminating. Experiences? How many people walk into their polling offices and just tick the same box year after year without listening to any of the parties waffle? Its going to effect their immediate futures more than toddlers, so no use in complaining that the vote's going to cover a later demographic.

The young tend to be weak minded, far more so than adults. They're far easier to manipulate by parties.

XD Shall we look at the number of people who voted for the Tory party in England? How many of those voted for them purely because of the nationalist guff they were spewing was better than than the economy centric arguments of the other parties? How many people in Scotland voted SNP because of the same thing? If so many people in a country weren't so single minded then you wouldn't have the parties we have right now in power probably. People are stupid at all ages, not just kids. Have a look at your average college class, that covers from the ages 18 upwards typically, and tell me people aren't so. =p

Age: 19. aha.

There are enough idiots over the age of 16 who are allowed to vote that simply immaturity won't make any meaningful difference. There are plenty of knuckledraggers out there well over the age of 18.

Sorry, am I not allowed an opinion then? Your now belittling me because I'm as "weak minded" as a 16 year old? I'm holding the same opinion as the 40 something year old members of the Scottish Nationalist Party, are you to say they're so weak minded to allow kids to vote too? =P

I may not agree with the Independence question, but I'll see it as a kick in the teeth if it isn't passed really. =/

Palindrome wrote:
There are enough idiots over the age of 16 who are allowed to vote that simply immaturity won't make any meaningful difference. There are plenty of knuckledraggers out there well over the age of 18.

Yeah but you can't seriously be telling me that the opinion of a child (a 16 year old) should be valid in a national referendum?

If you're not going to let the younger demographics vote because they're easily led and tend to be swayed by bs arguments and a lot of pomp why do you let soldiers vote? It's not like running patrols in Afghanistan makes a politically aware voter. It does however make one that is easily swayed by nationalist and pro defense parties arguments.

That said, our age is 18 in murrica, and that sounds a bit more legit than 16. Psychological and experiential development doesn't have a milestone year date, and you can have some pretty inexperienced and dumb adults and brilliant kids, but you've gotta place that cutoff somewhere. 16 seems too young to me. I've rarely met a 16 year old that I felt had a strong enough grasp on the sociological aspects of modern life to cast an informed vote, let alone foreign policy or economic knowledge.

 Testify wrote:
Age: 19. aha.

As another 19 year old I'm taking issue with this statement. You are right, I am 19. I am a student at Edinburgh University, have held down several jobs over the last couple of years when needed, and am well enough educated to be able to vote with a reasoning and rational thought. Why should I not be allowed to vote? I'm probably better qualified to vote than many so-called adults, and calling me weak-willed just because I am younger is simply offensive.

Huh, think that's bad? Try effectively being called weak-minded by some pompous, self-important teenager for voting Tory. As if the only reason for voting Conservative was because you're some nationalist mouth-breather. Where have you people been since 1997? Oh, that's right, you were in primary school for most of it.

 Albatross wrote:
Huh, think that's bad? Try effectively being called weak-minded by some pompous, self-important teenager for voting Tory. As if the only reason for voting Conservative was because you're some nationalist mouth-breather. Where have you people been since 1997? Oh, that's right, you were in primary school for most of it.

I don't recall saying that. Oh wait, I didn't!

 Castiel wrote:

 Albatross wrote:
Huh, think that's bad? Try effectively being called weak-minded by some pompous, self-important teenager for voting Tory. As if the only reason for voting Conservative was because you're some nationalist mouth-breather. Where have you people been since 1997? Oh, that's right, you were in primary school for most of it.

I don't recall saying that. Oh wait, I didn't!

You'll know when I'm addressing you, should I ever need to. I'll make it clear.

XD I didn't say that people didn't make an informed choice when they voted for the Tory party, or the SNP, I said that a lot of the people that did vote did it more for their need to have a party that was spewing a nationalist rhetoric than anything else. Just because someone didn't live through an event doesn't mean they're unable to take something from it. =/ Its the internet, it would seem everyone presumes that anyone who isn't agreeing with them's a moron.

 Albatross wrote:
[You'll know when I'm addressing you, should I ever need to. I'll make it clear.

Apologies for my error, although it did appear as if you were responding to my comment.

Quotes are a wonderful thing, rather than throwing out an accusations and waiting for x person to assume you're talking to them. =P

 Wyrmalla wrote:
XD I didn't say that people didn't make an informed choice when they voted for the Tory party, or the SNP, I said that a lot of the people that did vote did it more for their need to have a party that was spewing a nationalist rhetoric than anything else. Just because someone didn't live through an event doesn't mean they're unable to take something from it.

Clearly, one of the things you 'didn't live through' was the General Election, as the Tory party was fairly light on nationalist rhetoric, certainly no stronger than their opponents. The central theme of the GE was the economy:

Labour: 'Yes, we made mistakes but we're learning from them, and the economy will fix itself as long as we just maintain the status quo.'

Conservative: 'Labour wrecked the economy. The End.'

Lib Dem: 'Don't vote for them, vote for us. We're nice. We hate the fat-cats too. Of course Vince Cable didn't work for Shell before becoming an MP! Where on earth did you hear that?!'

=/ Its the internet, it would seem everyone presumes that anyone who isn't agreeing with them's a moron.

Not everyone, and not always.