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MarkyMark wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
fun games eh, I didnt enjoy the game at all yesterday but that was as much down to me using a skyshield as much as it was facing flamers, any unit that can start in front of you has 2 wounds and a invul and EW which just roll to wound and your model is dead, is not fun to play against. With such a static deployment as i had it wasnt fun either.

If I recall correctly, when the new FAQ drops in English flamers won't have invulnerable saves anymore. A German one is already out and it says that they only have the Daemon special rule from the Daemons Codex and not the one from the rulebook.

The new english FAQ is out, they get the codex demons demon rule and the BRB demon rule, so have 5+ save

Ok, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. That's a disappointing ruling.

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
fun games eh, I didnt enjoy the game at all yesterday but that was as much down to me using a skyshield as much as it was facing flamers, any unit that can start in front of you has 2 wounds and a invul and EW which just roll to wound and your model is dead, is not fun to play against. With such a static deployment as i had it wasnt fun either.

If I recall correctly, when the new FAQ drops in English flamers won't have invulnerable saves anymore. A German one is already out and it says that they only have the Daemon special rule from the Daemons Codex and not the one from the rulebook.

The new english FAQ is out, they get the codex demons demon rule and the BRB demon rule, so have 5+ save

Ok, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. That's a disappointing ruling.

Well not for me ^^ been playing Daemons for years

IMO, one of the worst aspects of flamers is being able to glance any vehicle on a 4+, meaning with a usually maxed out squad of flamers they can kill a LR as easy as a land speeder, with the hull point system its a tad unfair!.

MarkyMark wrote:
IMO, one of the worst aspects of flamers is being able to glance any vehicle on a 4+, meaning with a usually maxed out squad of flamers they can kill a LR as easy as a land speeder, with the hull point system its a tad unfair!.

It's really rough with the first squad eats the LR, than the second squad eats the innards.

Besides you can run them in up to 9

I run them in 2 squads of 5.

maybe I should change them to a squad of 9

The biggest weakness flamers have is concentrated small arms fire.

I was playing my friends CSM yesterday on turn one I dropped a squad of flamers, and with 3 CSM squads shooting bolters/plasma at them, they were whittled down to just 3 flamers. He then assaulted them with 5 chaos spawn and wiped them.

The problem is not focusing enough attention on them. The other squad of flamers I had came in on turn 4, and proceeded to burn away those same 3 squads because he focused fire on my bloodcrushers with them. If you forget about flamers, they will fry you.

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
fun games eh, I didnt enjoy the game at all yesterday but that was as much down to me using a skyshield as much as it was facing flamers, any unit that can start in front of you has 2 wounds and a invul and EW which just roll to wound and your model is dead, is not fun to play against. With such a static deployment as i had it wasnt fun either.

If I recall correctly, when the new FAQ drops in English flamers won't have invulnerable saves anymore. A German one is already out and it says that they only have the Daemon special rule from the Daemons Codex and not the one from the rulebook.

The new english FAQ is out, they get the codex demons demon rule and the BRB demon rule, so have 5+ save

Ok, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. That's a disappointing ruling.

I suppose I can understand your disappointment if you regularly face Flamers, but did you honestly expect Flamers and Screamers to be the only units in the Codex that don't have an invulnerable save?

If your friend is going to run that many flamers - run 2 squads of strikes and a squad of interceptors. Bring a GK GM for Grand Strategy and then Warp Quake the entire board.

You win this matchup at least 50% of the time from just winning the roll for first turn.

 calypso2ts wrote:
If your friend is going to run that many flamers - run 2 squads of strikes and a squad of interceptors. Bring a GK GM for Grand Strategy and then Warp Quake the entire board.

You win this matchup at least 50% of the time from just winning the roll for first turn.

Not any more. He can easily bring enough allies to wipe one of your squads off the board and open up 1/3 of the table.

 undertow wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
fun games eh, I didnt enjoy the game at all yesterday but that was as much down to me using a skyshield as much as it was facing flamers, any unit that can start in front of you has 2 wounds and a invul and EW which just roll to wound and your model is dead, is not fun to play against. With such a static deployment as i had it wasnt fun either.

If I recall correctly, when the new FAQ drops in English flamers won't have invulnerable saves anymore. A German one is already out and it says that they only have the Daemon special rule from the Daemons Codex and not the one from the rulebook.

The new english FAQ is out, they get the codex demons demon rule and the BRB demon rule, so have 5+ save

Ok, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. That's a disappointing ruling.

I suppose I can understand your disappointment if you regularly face Flamers, but did you honestly expect Flamers and Screamers to be the only units in the Codex that don't have an invulnerable save?

Not at all. But let's put it this way. Do you really think that they'd be overcosted if they didn't have an invulnerable save? They'd still be fantastic units. Why add more cheese to the cheese? Although I can understand why they got the save. I don't mind facing cheesy lists / units in the slightest, gives me a chance to learn exactly how they work face to face, but I got my hopes up a little bit after reading the German FAQ.

 Rampage wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
fun games eh, I didnt enjoy the game at all yesterday but that was as much down to me using a skyshield as much as it was facing flamers, any unit that can start in front of you has 2 wounds and a invul and EW which just roll to wound and your model is dead, is not fun to play against. With such a static deployment as i had it wasnt fun either.

If I recall correctly, when the new FAQ drops in English flamers won't have invulnerable saves anymore. A German one is already out and it says that they only have the Daemon special rule from the Daemons Codex and not the one from the rulebook.

The new english FAQ is out, they get the codex demons demon rule and the BRB demon rule, so have 5+ save

Ok, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. That's a disappointing ruling.

I suppose I can understand your disappointment if you regularly face Flamers, but did you honestly expect Flamers and Screamers to be the only units in the Codex that don't have an invulnerable save?

Not at all. But let's put it this way. Do you really think that they'd be overcosted if they didn't have an invulnerable save? They'd still be fantastic units. Why add more cheese to the cheese? Although I can understand why they got the save. I don't mind facing cheesy lists / units in the slightest, gives me a chance to learn exactly how they work face to face, but I got my hopes up a little bit after reading the German FAQ.

Sure lets take away a SM save and give them an extra wound. See if that would raise a fuss at all. Oh look a Template (slush)

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
fun games eh, I didnt enjoy the game at all yesterday but that was as much down to me using a skyshield as much as it was facing flamers, any unit that can start in front of you has 2 wounds and a invul and EW which just roll to wound and your model is dead, is not fun to play against. With such a static deployment as i had it wasnt fun either.

If I recall correctly, when the new FAQ drops in English flamers won't have invulnerable saves anymore. A German one is already out and it says that they only have the Daemon special rule from the Daemons Codex and not the one from the rulebook.

The new english FAQ is out, they get the codex demons demon rule and the BRB demon rule, so have 5+ save

Ok, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. That's a disappointing ruling.

I suppose I can understand your disappointment if you regularly face Flamers, but did you honestly expect Flamers and Screamers to be the only units in the Codex that don't have an invulnerable save?

Not at all. But let's put it this way. Do you really think that they'd be overcosted if they didn't have an invulnerable save? They'd still be fantastic units. Why add more cheese to the cheese? Although I can understand why they got the save. I don't mind facing cheesy lists / units in the slightest, gives me a chance to learn exactly how they work face to face, but I got my hopes up a little bit after reading the German FAQ.

Sure lets take away a SM save and give them an extra wound. See if that would raise a fuss at all. Oh look a Template (slush)

Yeah, it won't really matter. Even without the Invuln they're just as durable as they were before the update, except they're a lot less expensive.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:

 Rampage wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
fun games eh, I didnt enjoy the game at all yesterday but that was as much down to me using a skyshield as much as it was facing flamers, any unit that can start in front of you has 2 wounds and a invul and EW which just roll to wound and your model is dead, is not fun to play against. With such a static deployment as i had it wasnt fun either.

If I recall correctly, when the new FAQ drops in English flamers won't have invulnerable saves anymore. A German one is already out and it says that they only have the Daemon special rule from the Daemons Codex and not the one from the rulebook.

The new english FAQ is out, they get the codex demons demon rule and the BRB demon rule, so have 5+ save

Ok, didn't know that. Thanks for the heads up. That's a disappointing ruling.

I suppose I can understand your disappointment if you regularly face Flamers, but did you honestly expect Flamers and Screamers to be the only units in the Codex that don't have an invulnerable save?

Not at all. But let's put it this way. Do you really think that they'd be overcosted if they didn't have an invulnerable save? They'd still be fantastic units. Why add more cheese to the cheese? Although I can understand why they got the save. I don't mind facing cheesy lists / units in the slightest, gives me a chance to learn exactly how they work face to face, but I got my hopes up a little bit after reading the German FAQ.

Sure lets take away a SM save and give them an extra wound. See if that would raise a fuss at all. Oh look a Template (slush)

Give us EW and give our weapons no cover or armour saves and add the cost up by what 7 points? fine!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 labmouse42 wrote:
The biggest weakness flamers have is concentrated small arms fire.

I was playing my friends CSM yesterday on turn one I dropped a squad of flamers, and with 3 CSM squads shooting bolters/plasma at them, they were whittled down to just 3 flamers. He then assaulted them with 5 chaos spawn and wiped them.

The problem is not focusing enough attention on them. The other squad of flamers I had came in on turn 4, and proceeded to burn away those same 3 squads because he focused fire on my bloodcrushers with them. If you forget about flamers, they will fry you.

Of course, this is the best way to deal with flamers, there is zero point in putting high str weapons on them as they are usually only one dice, save them for the DP's GD and other high toughness units. Templates (frags typhoons etc) and rapid fire weapons are the best way, make them roll as many dice as possible, but it is still a lot of dice to roll until you take out 18wounds on a unit with a 5++ save sadly.

Actually the best way to deal with them is a multi-charge. But you would need some cheap throw away units to do that. Get past their overwatch and they die quickly.

Kevlar wrote:

Not any more. He can easily bring enough allies to wipe one of your squads off the board and open up 1/3 of the table.

Wait, what? How are you blowing away these units at the start of the movement phase?

Quit bitching about flamers. They are what they are, and I wouldn't be surprised if they got even nastier when the new Daemon book hits.

You should only be seeing 3 full squads of them in tournaments. If you are seeing that build in friendly games, you need
to coach your gaming buddies. Or find new gaming buddies.

Firstborn wrote:
Quit bitching about flamers. They are what they are, and I wouldn't be surprised if they got even nastier when the new Daemon book hits.

You should only be seeing 3 full squads of them in tournaments. If you are seeing that build in friendly games, you need
to coach your gaming buddies. Or find new gaming buddies.

Troll much?

On topic: I have found another good way to take out flamers is with flamers. Vets with 3 flamers in a chimera can really do a number on them. They are mobile and effective. Thoughts?

Firstborn wrote:
Quit bitching about flamers. They are what they are, and I wouldn't be surprised if they got even nastier when the new Daemon book hits.

You should only be seeing 3 full squads of them in tournaments. If you are seeing that build in friendly games, you need
to coach your gaming buddies. Or find new gaming buddies.

Any tips on world hunger or global warming? You don't charge for your 2 cents do you?

 Tomb King wrote:
On topic: I have found another good way to take out flamers is with flamers. Vets with 3 flamers in a chimera can really do a number on them. They are mobile and effective. Thoughts?

Not really. At most you're doing about 1 wound to maybe half of the unit, their save is only a 5+. While it sounds good to start, remember to do this you're putting yourself where they want them. Losing a single flamer like that is fine; generally you take a larger unit to fit in sacrifices like this as you grind it through the enemy. Remember, they're sort of the Daemon's version of melta vets. I'm not sure about everyone else, but one of the main reasons I take any is to help with the enemy tanks. If possible you'd do better with a flyer, preferably with blast weapons, as they don't have anything that can effectively take those down, they can shoot at it with their little Horror attack but it shouldn't do any damage.

Firstborn wrote:
Quit bitching about flamers. They are what they are, and I wouldn't be surprised if they got even nastier when the new Daemon book hits.

You should only be seeing 3 full squads of them in tournaments. If you are seeing that build in friendly games, you need
to coach your gaming buddies. Or find new gaming buddies.

I like this guy.

 Brometheus wrote:

Firstborn wrote:
Quit bitching about flamers. They are what they are, and I wouldn't be surprised if they got even nastier when the new Daemon book hits.

You should only be seeing 3 full squads of them in tournaments. If you are seeing that build in friendly games, you need
to coach your gaming buddies. Or find new gaming buddies.

I like this guy.

I've been testing with some Daemon lists recently with a friend. It's been rough for him but we're still tight. Running a flying circus hybrid-esque thing.

5xFMC's
2x5 flamers
3x5PB

Nice. My attitude for all games lately (including against demons fun) is "I'mma go ahead and last until turn 7, so get comfortable."

Here, this solves people's problems: Refuse to play until someone tones down their list, if it's an issue. Why is it so hard to just find another person to play?

To the OP: Bunch up. I know it's silly, but... It will concentrate the amount of wounds you can cause in return.

 Brometheus wrote:
Nice. My attitude for all games lately (including against demons fun) is "I'mma go ahead and last until turn 7, so get comfortable."

Been blowing people out by turn 4. Turn 3 was the best so it's no IG Leafblower, but it's alot more fun ^^

Maybe so.. but ask anyone about my Invulnerable Saves.

 Brometheus wrote:
Maybe so.. but ask anyone about my Invulnerable Saves.

haha I hear ya on that. Been rolling hot on grounding checks, hope it keeps up for another week.

Fateweaver can help their saves right? If I recall he does or gives them a 2nd and makes you decide kill fateweaver or kill the flamers. My friend did this but I had 2 squads of lootas and 50 boys and a dakka jet on waaagh shooting at the flamers and rolling 3 shots for the lootas. Enough to kill one of the units but was hard choice to go for fateweaver or the flamers Hopefully kill FW and make it easier to kill flamers but if you fail to kill him then on his turn you're dead. Or Just make him roll so many dice he is going to fail enough to make the flamers manageable.

pepe5454 wrote:
Fateweaver can help their saves right? If I recall he does or gives them a 2nd and makes you decide kill fateweaver or kill the flamers. My friend did this but I had 2 squads of lootas and 50 boys and a dakka jet on waaagh shooting at the flamers and rolling 3 shots for the lootas. Enough to kill one of the units but was hard choice to go for fateweaver or the flamers Hopefully kill FW and make it easier to kill flamers but if you fail to kill him then on his turn you're dead. Or Just make him roll so many dice he is going to fail enough to make the flamers manageable.

Yes Fateweaver grans a 6" re-roll are. Fairly large bubble for Kairos' ability

Have you all tried a vet squad or pcs decked out with flamers? Fight flamers with flamers. They arrive in tight formation and take out your chimera.. squad gets out and burns them for it. 4 PCS flamers will on average cause 18 wounds to a cluster of 9 flamers in one shooting phase.

 Tomb King wrote:
Have you all tried a vet squad or pcs decked out with flamers? Fight flamers with flamers. They arrive in tight formation and take out your chimera.. squad gets out and burns them for it. 4 PCS flamers will on average cause 18 wounds to a cluster of 9 flamers in one shooting phase.

That would be 6 dead models with avg rolling 3 dead models if Kairos is there. Granted though if you get out of your chimera to burn them you had better kill them all.

 Tomb King wrote:
Have you all tried a vet squad or pcs decked out with flamers? Fight flamers with flamers. They arrive in tight formation and take out your chimera.. squad gets out and burns them for it. 4 PCS flamers will on average cause 18 wounds to a cluster of 9 flamers in one shooting phase.

You asked what we thought... ignored it and then asked again...
Lasgun spam may be better against them than flamers. At least then you're not sitting there where they want to and assuming they want to go for them rather than say a LR or something. They're like melta sternguard.

 n0t_u wrote:

 Tomb King wrote:
Have you all tried a vet squad or pcs decked out with flamers? Fight flamers with flamers. They arrive in tight formation and take out your chimera.. squad gets out and burns them for it. 4 PCS flamers will on average cause 18 wounds to a cluster of 9 flamers in one shooting phase.

You asked what we thought... ignored it and then asked again...
Lasgun spam may be better against them than flamers. At least then you're not sitting there where they want to and assuming they want to go for them rather than say a LR or something. They're like melta sternguard.

Lol sorry about I could not find my post so thought it might have been deleted along with the trolling one. With wall of death flamer vets might not be bad objective holders in cover. Might try more flamers in my list and see how it goes.