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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Manchu wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
That said, society in general has decided that the sadness of abortion moderated within the cloak of the law is better than the evils of back street abortions, etc. which have been so widely experienced in the past.
In my own experience, there are quite a few religious people who consider abortion a social evil but understand that a social evil cast into the light is better dealt with than left to the shadows.


Thankfully there are only a few people left that truly believe that a back street abortion gone bad is exactly what a woman like "that" deserves.
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life. Countries without abortion have better maternal care. I don't see the logical reason other than 'I don't want a child' and in most cases 'I don't want to take responsibility for my actions'

Someone else said something about rape and abortion.
http://news.yahoo.com/gop-senate-candidate-god-intended-pregnancies-rape-061057785--abc-news-politics.html
So by that logic, Go intended for the rape to happen.


Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise what he meant was that the child is gifted life via God. God does not intend rape, for the rapist presumably had free will. It's interesting how supposedly open minded liberals immediately assume the worst.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life. Countries without abortion have better maternal care. I don't see the logical reason other than 'I don't want a child' and in most cases 'I don't want to take responsibility for my actions'

Someone else said something about rape and abortion.
http://news.yahoo.com/gop-senate-candidate-god-intended-pregnancies-rape-061057785--abc-news-politics.html
So by that logic, Go intended for the rape to happen.


Anyone with an ounce of sense would realise what he meant was that the child is gifted life via God. God does not intend rape, for the rapist presumably had free will. It's interesting how supposedly open minded liberals immediately assume the worst.


Yeah yeah, the child is the gift. Sorry about the crappy delivery of the package though...
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life. ...


That is not true.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Phototoxin wrote:
Countries without abortion have better maternal care.
Could you please provide where you find this evidence. I have never heard it before, and am very curious as to where the studies took place.

This countries colored in orange, red, and yellow are where abortion is illegal. Where those studies done in the middle east, africa, or south america?
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life. ...


That is not true.


Give examples please where the intentional termination of a unborn child is required to save a life.

The UN says Ireland has some of the best maternal care and a low rate of maternal death.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 12:34:38


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Phototoxin wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life. ...


That is not true.


Give examples please where the intentional termination of a unborn child is required to save a life.



Uterine tears, entopic pregnancies, traumatic injuries, shock, sepsis, cancers...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 12:40:02


 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-eclampsia

Heart disease, accidents, there's a veritable plethora reasons why a termination might be deemed necessary on medical grounds.


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

Edit: Ninja'd on the examples of medical cases where abortions might be ness. I'll just leave my witty retort

But by all means don't let medical reality get in the way of your "facts" Photo.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 12:46:37


I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 Phototoxin wrote:
The UN says Ireland has some of the best maternal care and a low rate of maternal death.
That is anecdotal evidence. Your cherry picking one country out of all of the ones where abortion is illegal and using that as your sample.

If that logic were sound, then would not the middle east, africa and south america also have some of the lowest rates of maternal death -- instead of the highest?

Look, I get wanting to preserve all human life. That's why I push for getting a colony on Mars. That's why I push for responsible enviromental positions.
But you got to base your arguments on something strong than anecdotal evidence. Take a page from whembly's book -- he makes excellent cases for anti-abortion positions.
   
Made in gb
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine






http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-eclampsia

Heart disease, accidents, there's a veritable plethora reasons why a termination might be deemed necessary on medical grounds.


Uterine tears, entopic pregnancies, traumatic injuries, shock, sepsis, cancers.


So abortion cures all of these things. THE MIRACLE CURE!

Also most etopic pregnancies die and then can be removed.

   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






On the heart thing,There are some women whose heart cant handle it.
And Most, But not all.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

So you now understand that there are indeed occasions when an abortion can save a mothers life ?

Good oh, we'll move now onto how the earth actually orbits the sun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 13:28:26


The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
 
   
Made in us
Imperial Admiral




 reds8n wrote:
So you now understand that there are indeed occasions when an abortion can save a mothers life ?

Good oh, we'll move now onto how the earth actually orbits the sun.


Somebody wants some stake time, I see.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

 Phototoxin wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-eclampsia

Heart disease, accidents, there's a veritable plethora reasons why a termination might be deemed necessary on medical grounds.


Uterine tears, entopic pregnancies, traumatic injuries, shock, sepsis, cancers.


So abortion cures all of these things. THE MIRACLE CURE!



It might just be my years of training in the medical field and a decade of experience speaking but....most problems caused by pregnancy are often resolved by termination of the pregnancy.

I have seen these problems first hand, so I don't take them lightly. I have seen mothers and parents to be try to make that decision and either terminate their pregnancy or have a mother sacrifice her life for the child. During one of my clinical rotations in school we had a woman come in who had a spontaneous miscarriage at home at 15 weeks. When she came to the hospital she brought the stillborn fetus with her and all of us had the opportunity to go to the lab and see the child-that-wasn't. Anti-abortion folks don't need to show me the graphic "here is a fetus that was killed" pictures because I have held one in my hands. I'm not typing this to seem tough, just trying to share that I am not removed and unaware of the results of abortions.

But please, don't let me disturb your factual evidence and extensive experience with the subject at hand.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 13:46:21


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life.


Easiest decision to hit the ignore button I've ever made. Nothing you will ever post will interest me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 13:49:51


DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
Hallowed Canoness





The Void

 reds8n wrote:
So you now understand that there are indeed occasions when an abortion can save a mothers life ?

Good oh, we'll move now onto how the earth actually orbits the sun.



Now that's just ludicrous! Take your lies else where sir! Next you'll be saying the Earth is in fact round!


 kronk wrote:
 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life.


Easiest decision to hit the ignore button I've ever made. Nothing you will ever post will interest me.


Not a bad idea.

I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long


SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 d-usa wrote:
 Phototoxin wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-eclampsia

Heart disease, accidents, there's a veritable plethora reasons why a termination might be deemed necessary on medical grounds.


Uterine tears, entopic pregnancies, traumatic injuries, shock, sepsis, cancers.


So abortion cures all of these things. THE MIRACLE CURE!



It might just be my years of training in the medical field and a decade of experience speaking but....most problems caused by pregnancy are often resolved by termination of the pregnancy.

I have seen these problems first hand, so I don't take them lightly. I have seen mothers and parents to be try to make that decision and either terminate their pregnancy or have a mother sacrifice her life for the child. During one of my clinical rotations in school we had a woman come in who had a spontaneous miscarriage at home at 15 weeks. When she came to the hospital she brought the stillborn fetus with her and all of us had the opportunity to go to the lab and see the child-that-wasn't. Anti-abortion folks don't need to show me the graphic "here is a fetus that was killed" pictures because I have held one in my hands. I'm not typing this to seem tough, just trying to share that I am not removed and unaware of the results of abortions.

But please, don't let me disturb your factual evidence and extensive experience with the subject at hand.

At my school, College Campus, in the library quad they put up Giant, and i mean giant Signs of aborted fetuses. they did this for 3 days, the most heart breaking thing i saw as a girl may age supporting thing. Whats worse, they compared abortion to, lynching of black people. By the third day i put my earphones in, even though i dont have any music player so they wouldnt bother me, But it was kinda cool to see people tying the mouths by deciding to take tunrs talking to all the protesters so they couldnt hand out their pamphlets.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

It was an emotional day holding that fetus. I wish nobody would ever need or have an abortion. But I will always fight to have the legal option to do so and I will always try to educate people who don't know what they are talking about when they make stupid arguments against it.
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Overland Park, KS

 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a womans life. Countries without abortion have better maternal care. I don't see the logical reason other than 'I don't want a child' and in most cases 'I don't want to take responsibility for my actions'


Woohoo more people for my ignore list!

I just don't get why anyone thinks they get to control someone else's body and decisions? Mind your own fething business.

Live your own life how you want, don't press it on others.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 16:03:27


   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 d-usa wrote:
It was an emotional day holding that fetus. I wish nobody would ever need or have an abortion. But I will always fight to have the legal option to do so and I will always try to educate people who don't know what they are talking about when they make stupid arguments against it.

As i have said before, I dont like abortion, not one lick, but sometimes it is necessary for the mother. I remember this movie we watched where a war widow slept with her husbands brother or something, because of that she would have to take alot of time off of work for the kid, But she couldnt get an abortion because it was the 50's, she ended up dying from a back allley procedure that they showed in full detail. I remember thinking "If this women got the help see needed, she could have kept the child and her life" and i resolved the best way to stop abortion is to help the mothers who truly want to keep the baby keep it and provide care. Like at my parish there is a project that gives free baby supplies to mothers.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

Also a decent reason to allow abortion. Women who want one, will get one, and if its illegal that means a special visit from the clothing hanger in an unclean environment possible with some hack who never even went to medical school and might overcharge.

Not really a desirable outcome.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 16:03:01


   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Found the clip i was talking about, Very graphic, I think this should be shown in every sex ed class.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkbsAGNwdZI
Im not posting it on the site.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

 Phototoxin wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ectopic_pregnancy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-eclampsia

Heart disease, accidents, there's a veritable plethora reasons why a termination might be deemed necessary on medical grounds. Uterine tears, entopic pregnancies, traumatic injuries, shock, sepsis, cancers.


So abortion cures all of these things. THE MIRACLE CURE!

Also most etopic pregnancies die and then can be removed.


The things you type, blow my mind.

Listen, you are a creationist, so we already know you can't be talked out of anything with logic, but trust us, there are plenty of things that can kill a mother if she carries the fetus the full length of pregnancy, so instead of coming on and being necky and typing things like "So abortion MIRACLE CURE!" which nobody said, why don't you just stop commenting on things that you aren't interested in?

Things you will never ever change your mind about, things you aren't interested in having discourse in, because you have already made your mind up (world is 5000 years old) and you aren't interested in a discussion about. Also, stop telling bare faced lies about what other people have said, its a silly thing to do because everything that has been typed is right there on the screen. You can scroll up and have a quick look if you like, its not difficult. Look I'll do it.

 Phototoxin wrote:
Abortion is never necessary to save a woman's life. Countries without abortion have better maternal care.


You are either a bare faced liar, or you are staggeringly ignorant.

Which is it?

We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






Connecticut

 mattyrm wrote:
You are either a bare faced liar, or you are staggeringly ignorant.

Which is it?
That sir, is a false dilemma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
   
Made in gb
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps





South Wales

Yeah, the other option is both.


Prestor Jon wrote:
Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
 
   
Made in gb
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought





UK

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
It was an emotional day holding that fetus. I wish nobody would ever need or have an abortion. But I will always fight to have the legal option to do so and I will always try to educate people who don't know what they are talking about when they make stupid arguments against it.

As i have said before, I dont like abortion, not one lick, but sometimes it is necessary for the mother. I remember this movie we watched where a war widow slept with her husbands brother or something, because of that she would have to take alot of time off of work for the kid, But she couldnt get an abortion because it was the 50's, she ended up dying from a back allley procedure that they showed in full detail. I remember thinking "If this women got the help see needed, she could have kept the child and her life" and i resolved the best way to stop abortion is to help the mothers who truly want to keep the baby keep it and provide care. Like at my parish there is a project that gives free baby supplies to mothers.


Bloody hell mate.. come on. Just think for a second, does anyone LIKE abortion!?

If you think they do, you have been reading too many of those ridiculous Republi-Jesus-Creationist pamphlets that say things like "Democrats are in love with abortion" and such.

Absolutely nobody is in love with it. No woman goes "I hope I get knocked up again this weekend so I can get my ovaries vacuumed again! woo-hoo!"

The fact is, its a heartbreaking decision to make, nobody but a lunatic would make it easy, and nobody is suggesting that abortions are a good thing. But at the end of the fething day, its a womans bastard body, and some crusty old Religious bigot with as much Scientific knowledge as a pull-along duck, should not have the right to force his own narrow opinions onto everybody else.

How can people who live in a country that crows on about freedom so bloody often even debate this?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 labmouse42 wrote:
 mattyrm wrote:
You are either a bare faced liar, or you are staggeringly ignorant.

Which is it?
That sir, is a false dilemma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma


It absolutely isn't. Did you actually read the wikipedia entry?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/10/25 16:16:07


We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.  
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Oh i know no one likes it, but i know alot of republicans who think if you support it, you must like it.

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Secret Force Behind the Rise of the Tau




USA

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh i know no one likes it, but i know alot of republicans who think if you support it, you must like it.


That's because everyone assumes the false dilemma (oh look at that) that if you aren't against something you absolutely MUST be for it. It's politics one oh one, I.E. why every politician has a 'black and white' position on hot button topics. If they don't specify being for or against everyone just assumes, even when they painstakingly spell out their position.

   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

@All: Remember that personal attacks are not allowed. If you cannot participate in a discussion on a topic without resorting to personal attacks, leave it be.

   
 
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