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Ok, we've all probably got quite a few librarians,chaplains and come to think of it medics and techmarines in our collections. So why do they not figure more in the actual game apart from the hq choice slots? Everytime I hear the term 'vanilla marines' I shudder. Each marine army (if GW would even just consider it) could be very very different from each other, rather than just having the option of using a codex as 'counts as'. Consider the following armies. I'm no expert on the points but i'm just showing how I think these armies would benefit in play and flavor; I'm probably coming more from the fluff angle but I think it would make an interesting angle to 'vanilla marines'.
Salamanders. If the rumors are true about new plastic marines coming next year then true Salamanders may become a reality. Squads supported by Heavy flamers as well as meltas and flamers?
Black Templars. Now don't choke on your cornflakes here but; how about each squad including a chaplain? They could be lower levels of chaplain whilst the senior chaplain could only be selected for the HQ choice. This would capture the monastic feel of this army.
Blood Ravens. Like the idea above but with Librarians. Afterall they are supposed to have more librarians than any other chapter, yet in game terms this cannot be reflected.
One thing I think should be considered is the option of having a medic in each squad. I've seen many battles where the'invincible' marines get chewed up at the start, maybe a medic would help reduce this?
Just some thoughts.

Slipstream wrote:
Ok, we've all probably got quite a few librarians,chaplains and come to think of it medics and techmarines in our collections. So why do they not figure more in the actual game apart from the hq choice slots? Everytime I hear the term 'vanilla marines' I shudder. Each marine army (if GW would even just consider it) could be very very different from each other, rather than just having the option of using a codex as 'counts as'. Consider the following armies. I'm no expert on the points but i'm just showing how I think these armies would benefit in play and flavor; I'm probably coming more from the fluff angle but I think it would make an interesting angle to 'vanilla marines'.
Salamanders. If the rumors are true about new plastic marines coming next year then true Salamanders may become a reality. Squads supported by Heavy flamers as well as meltas and flamers? This can happen in Codex:SM
Black Templars. Now don't choke on your cornflakes here but; how about each squad including a chaplain? They could be lower levels of chaplain whilst the senior chaplain could only be selected for the HQ choice. This would capture the monastic feel of this army. This would be nice
Blood Ravens. Like the idea above but with Librarians. Afterall they are supposed to have more librarians than any other chapter, yet in game terms this cannot be reflected.Chaos dex, thousand sons list
One thing I think should be considered is the option of having a medic in each squad. I've seen many battles where the'invincible' marines get chewed up at the start, maybe a medic would help reduce this?FW red scorpions character does this
Just some thoughts.

I can only speak for BT, but using the AAC vow in a CC oriented army pretty much makes the Chaplain a prerequisite in your melee squad. He grants you Preferred Enemy (reroll misses), controls our Righteous Zeal towards the target of your choice, and can add an inch to the RZ for each Servitor he has, up to three. No brainer. Chappy in Terminator armor in a squad of TH/SS and LC Termis is insanity.

Grimaldus is a Chaplain that takes up an HQ slot for us, and he has silly stats/buffs as well.

 TheAngrySquig wrote:

Slipstream wrote:
Ok, we've all probably got quite a few librarians,chaplains and come to think of it medics and techmarines in our collections. So why do they not figure more in the actual game apart from the hq choice slots? Everytime I hear the term 'vanilla marines' I shudder. Each marine army (if GW would even just consider it) could be very very different from each other, rather than just having the option of using a codex as 'counts as'. Consider the following armies. I'm no expert on the points but i'm just showing how I think these armies would benefit in play and flavor; I'm probably coming more from the fluff angle but I think it would make an interesting angle to 'vanilla marines'.
Salamanders. If the rumors are true about new plastic marines coming next year then true Salamanders may become a reality. Squads supported by Heavy flamers as well as meltas and flamers? This can happen in Codex:SM
Black Templars. Now don't choke on your cornflakes here but; how about each squad including a chaplain? They could be lower levels of chaplain whilst the senior chaplain could only be selected for the HQ choice. This would capture the monastic feel of this army. This would be nice
Blood Ravens. Like the idea above but with Librarians. Afterall they are supposed to have more librarians than any other chapter, yet in game terms this cannot be reflected.Chaos dex, thousand sons list
One thing I think should be considered is the option of having a medic in each squad. I've seen many battles where the'invincible' marines get chewed up at the start, maybe a medic would help reduce this?FW red scorpions character does this
Just some thoughts.

Tac squads can't get Heavy Flamers.

Oh thought that they could. Well still thats not a huge difference

they could last codex with the chapter traits.

Only infantry that can get HF now are Terminators, Sternguard, and Legion of the Damned.

If Black Templars had Chappys in all of our Tac squads, and termie assault squads (with no FoC for the chaplain).... we would be the new cheese on the block. It would be brutal in CC.

Blood Angels can already take Apothecaries with their squads. Sanguinary Priests are ICs that come 3 to an Elites slot and can attach to any squad out there.

I'm actually having a similar problem with Chaos, since I want a Dark Apostle, Sorcerer, Warpsmith and Lord in my list.

So play 2000 points

While it would be nice to see some more variation in lists, perhaps a hark back to the old Armageddon Codex... realistically, there are too many damn Marine books already. ...not to mention, judging by the intense showing off of the new Studio army lately, if GW are going to do ANY new Marine armies any time soon it's going to be White Scars.

With a little imagination using "counts as" the existing lists can be used to cater, however.

Librarians - easy, Grey Knights can cover this. Every squad's a psyker! Just paint up each Justicar as a Librarian alongside normal Marines, and, er, suspend disbelief further should the Justicar die.
Chaplains - Blood Angels can cover this, by being able to fill HQ and Elite slots with 2 different versions. With other lists you could simply give squad leaders a power maul and appropriate paint job, though you'd lose out on the reroll ability and 4++.
Techmarines - vanilla Marines can field Master of the Forge as well, to cover HQ and Elite slots - this also opens up more slots for vehicles as would befit the theme.
Apothecaries - as already mentioned, Blood Angels can cover this as you can field up to 9(!) in a standard FoC, and they're IC's so can join any squad.

Don't forget that you can also convert models to represent your own chapter's version instead.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Blood Angels can already take Apothecaries with their squads. Sanguinary Priests are ICs that come 3 to an Elites slot and can attach to any squad out there.

I'm actually having a similar problem with Chaos, since I want a Dark Apostle, Sorcerer, Warpsmith and Lord in my list.

Cant you take 2 HQ per slot in the new chaos codex?

Nerm86 wrote:

Cant you take 2 HQ per slot in the new chaos codex?

Only Space Wolves can do that.

 TheAngrySquig wrote:
So play 2000 points

I don't aim to play 2000 points very often, since games tend to take a significant amount of time to finish.

Or you could just play more apocalypse games. A couple dozen HQs on the field at any time can make things very very interesting (assuming really big games).

In all seriousness though, as an ultramarine player I use chaplains all the time. Put em in a 10 man squad of assault terminators and watch the opponent cry.

I would love to play more Apocalypse games, but the game club only stays open so late! I dig Chaplains too, but I feel like putting one in an Assault Terminator squad is overkill. I can't think of much they won't murder on the charge without him!

 Brother SRM wrote:

Nerm86 wrote:

Cant you take 2 HQ per slot in the new chaos codex?

Only Space Wolves can do that.

Chaos Daemons can take 4 heralds IIRC

If I were in charge of organizing these things each army would have one book with a section on variant lists in the back, permitting you to make a broader variety of things with one Codex (I suspect Space Wolves are different enough to get their own book, but Dark Angels, Blood Angels, and Black Templars could all be portrayed as the vanilla book with a few extra units/rules and some limitations). Something like that would be easier for GW to do without inciting rage over 'Too many Marine Codexes!' and it'd be easier to transfer to other Codexes that don't have the following the Space Marines have that wouldn't be as cost-effective to make different books for (how many people would honestly buy an Alaitoc variant Codex?).