Tau advantages and disadvantages

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**4TheG8erGood**

Just a note, I am pretty sure you should take the individual point costs for war gear and stuff out of the above posts.

Other than that I echo what others have said about having to use every unit efficiently because of point costs. As far as the wait till a new codex advice, if you search around dakka a bit you will see that Tau has been hoping for a new codex for what seems like forever. So if you want to get into Tau now, go for it!

Grammar edit

**Guilldog**

looking at some of the forge world stuff and OMFG the manta looks sick, if i mysteriously wind up with an extra 1500 bucks i dont know what to do with, im getting one.

**Soo'Vah'Cha**

I have one sitting in its packing box still disassembled, plan on working on it once my MEB is done, and I am retired, it takes up approx half of a 4x6 table

Not really practical, but very cool, may be fun for a seriously large Apoc game.

personally I find the Tigershark A-X-0 as some of the most useful of the Tau fliers, and the XV-9 are great for dealing with deepstrikers or assaulters that get in amoungst your forces, I use them as a "Fire Brigade".

but the flying shoebox AKA Orca, not to big a fan, the TX-42 and the Tetras are pretty nice as well.

I have spent way to much on Forgeworld stuff..it was nice to have disposable income while it lasted.

**troy_tempest**

Guilldog - Tau are what go me back into 40k 4 years ago now!

My enduring memories of 5th ed were mostly getting mauled in the assault phase. 6th has changed that a bit.. although 2d6 charge range doesn't help Tau very much. The new rally rules also help but with our low init you will find you often get run down in assaults. Also - savvy 40k players know pathfinders are the key to Tau army functionality and you might find these guys wiped in the first turn if you're playing someone who knows the army.

Now the flipside - wonderful models and IMO the coolest army in 40k. But beware - there are not a large number of builds that work well. You might find that compared to your chaos dex that you are a bit constrained build wise. Having said that, the Tau are a challenge, thats why people use 'em.

You sound like you are sold to me. Now is probably quite a good time to get top dollar for your chaos with the new dex out. Tau stuff on ebay tends to be fairly cheap as everyone knows the Dex is one of the worst at the moment.

As an aside, soo'vah'cha your work is amazing!

**Guilldog**

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
I have one sitting in its packing box still disassembled, plan on working on it once my MEB is done, and I am retired, it takes up approx half of a 4x6 table

Not really practical, but very cool, may be fun for a seriously large Apoc game.

personally I find the Tigershark A-X-0 as some of the most useful of the Tau fliers, and the XV-9 are great for dealing with deepstrikers or assaulters that get in amoungst your forces, I use them as a "Fire Brigade".

but the flying shoebox AKA Orca, not to big a fan, the TX-42 and the Tetras are pretty nice as well.

I have spent way to much on Forgeworld stuff..it was nice to have disposable income while it lasted.

lemme guess your MEB is for your back or knees, almost all the FO's i know have messed up backs, comes from lugging harris radios i guess.
But yeah i noticed there was no codex air so i may grab so forgeworld stuff, i know the heldrakes where a godsend for chaos.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

troy_tempest wrote:
Guilldog - Tau are what go me back into 40k 4 years ago now!

My enduring memories of 5th ed were mostly getting mauled in the assault phase. 6th has changed that a bit.. although 2d6 charge range doesn't help Tau very much. The new rally rules also help but with our low init you will find you often get run down in assaults. Also - savvy 40k players know pathfinders are the key to Tau army functionality and you might find these guys wiped in the first turn if you're playing someone who knows the army.

Now the flipside - wonderful models and IMO the coolest army in 40k. But beware - there are not a large number of builds that work well. You might find that compared to your chaos dex that you are a bit constrained build wise. Having said that, the Tau are a challenge, thats why people use 'em.

You sound like you are sold to me. Now is probably quite a good time to get top dollar for your chaos with the new dex out. Tau stuff on ebay tends to be fairly cheap as everyone knows the Dex is one of the worst at the moment.

As an aside, soo'vah'cha your work is amazing!

Yeah I have been going over the codex and yes compared to the new chaos dex its lacking but according to the rumours there should be a new one sometime early next year. But at any rate I dont really like dealing with close combat. So with the tau i can just bounce around and shoot. I mean yeah my chaos do just fine in CC i mean with my termis and zerkers but i just prefer to avoid personally. And as i said before i dont really like the IG models to tau was the way to go for me.

**60mm**

Pro: Guns
Con: A rabbit with a sharpened fork getting within 5m.

**Guilldog**

60mm wrote:
Pro: Guns
Con: A rabbit with a sharpened fork getting within 5m.

Not sure what you mean about a rabbit with a fork but i think its along the same lines as what everyone else has been saying, run around and shoot stuff and stay out of close combat.

**60mm**

Guilldog wrote:
60mm wrote:
Pro: Guns
Con: A rabbit with a sharpened fork getting within 5m.

Not sure what you mean about a rabbit with a fork but i think its along the same lines as what everyone else has been saying, run around and shoot stuff and stay out of close combat.

I was implying that a rabbit with a fork can beat down a Tau in CC, so yeah, you got it right.

**barnowl**

TS, Tau have been "getting a new codex next year" for about 3 years now, so don't but to much stock in that yet.

**Guilldog**

barnowl wrote:
TS, Tau have been "getting a new codex next year" for about 3 years now, so don't but to much stock in that yet.

well after three years im sure there has to be a new one some time right? but hey if not its no big deal, i'll jut take the 19 pages of FAQ's and slap them into the back of my codex and roll from there.

**taudau**

Guilldog wrote:
barnowl wrote:
TS, Tau have been "getting a new codex next year" for about 3 years now, so don't but to much stock in that yet.
well after three years im sure there has to be a new one some time right? but hey if not its no big deal, i'll jut take the 19 pages of FAQ's and slap them into the back of my codex and roll from there.

Sorry man, but that's the "power armor fallacy", i.e. the assumption that every codex will be updated regularly for every edition. This assumption only holds true when the codex in question contains power-armored models. Xenos codices do not contain any members of the "master race" and are not updated regularly at all. Expect at least two BRB editions to be released between xenos codex updates.

**Guilldog**

taudau wrote:
Guilldog wrote:
barnowl wrote:
TS, Tau have been "getting a new codex next year" for about 3 years now, so don't but to much stock in that yet.
well after three years im sure there has to be a new one some time right? but hey if not its no big deal, i'll jut take the 19 pages of FAQ's and slap them into the back of my codex and roll from there.

Sorry man, but that's the "power armor fallacy", i.e. the assumption that every codex will be updated regularly for every edition. This assumption only holds true when the codex in question contains power-armored models. Xenos codices do not contain any members of the "master race" and are not updated regularly at all. Expect at least two BRB editions to be released between xenos codex updates.

well that sucks, maybe im just optimistic cause im sitting on the new chaos codex atm, but who knows maybe maybe not eithr way i plan on having some pretty good fun wth the

**MrScience**

Pros
-Lots of shooting
-The Greater Good

Cons
-Melee combat is iffy.
-You're the anime fan race of the 40k Galaxy
-The Greater Good

**Guilldog**

MrScience wrote:
Pros
-Lots of shooting
-The Greater Good

Cons
-Melee combat is iffy.
-You're the anime fan race of the 40k Galaxy
-The Greater Good

well im a super anime fan so that would be a pro for me.

**taudau**

If you really want Anime, go with eldar / dark eldar instead. Heck, they even have long, flowing hair, impossibly sharp asian swords, magic and weird eyes

**Freytag93**

Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you want and have made up your mind.
Make sure you let us know when/if you decide to make a purchase

**Guilldog**

Freytag93 wrote:
Sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what you want and have made up your mind.
Make sure you let us know when/if you decide to make a purchase

so far this is what im working with after some trades go through

6 Devilfish
72 Fire Warriors
6 Stealth suits
13 Crisis Suits (I Plan on Making 3 Broadsides)
Sniper Drone Team (possibly getting two more)
50ish Drones
3 Pirahnas
18 Pathfinders
3 Hammerheads

**Freytag93**

That sounds pretty well rounded. I would recommend not buying snipers and instead just making your own. You have plenty of normal drones to do it.
I would also recommend getting the bits to be able to make those 6 DF into HH. I have 9 tanks that I can outfit as DF, HH w/Railgun, HH w/Ion Cannon, or 3 Sky Rays. The ability to switch between transport, GEQ death, MEQ death, and AA is very nice.
Random question: Any idea on the paint scheme or fluff for these guys?

**Guilldog**

Freytag93 wrote:
That sounds pretty well rounded. I would recommend not buying snipers and instead just making your own. You have plenty of normal drones to do it.
I would also recommend getting the bits to be able to make those 6 DF into HH. I have 9 tanks that I can outfit as DF, HH w/Railgun, HH w/Ion Cannon, or 3 Sky Rays. The ability to switch between transport, GEQ death, MEQ death, and AA is very nice.
Random question: Any idea on the paint scheme or fluff for these guys?

no fluff yet, looking black and gold, silver and white, red and yellow, black and silver, silver and blue, red and gold, or purple and blue i have the paints to do all of thos schemes very well, and sadly i havent had time to get into the fluff very much but i plan on it, i know the basic stuff from the codex

**ArbitorIan**

Guilldog wrote:

Ok so assuming i sell my chaos space marine army for around a grand, these are two big army list im looking at buying to jump start my tau, i dont know which really is the better deal, i also notice that one of them doesnt come with a sniper guy and sniper drones which i really like the look of, but i can get him or a couple of him with any left over from selling my CSM army. Anyway the first is

Commander Farsight
76 x Firewarriors
12 x Firewariors NIB
5 x Hammerhead Tanks
1 x Piranha
14 x Battlesuits
2 x Battlesuits NIB
50 x Drones with all the options
6 x Broadside Battlesuits (just primed white)
5 x Metal OOP Stealthsuits (really cool looking, and not chunky like some of the really old models)
Tau Codex

for $700 dollars

the second is

1x Shas'o R'myr's
3x Strain leaders
2x Commander farsight
2x Crisis Battlesuit commander
18x XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (A couple of them are in rough condition)
12x XV25 Stealth battlesuits(one is incomlpete)
34x Firewarriors
22x Kroot Carnivore
4x Devilfishs
2x Piranhas
15x Vespid Stingwings
20x Gun drones
24x Pathfinders
3x Broadside battlesuits
2x Hammerheads(also one of them can be switched to be a sky ray missle defence gunship also comes with ION cannons)
3 squads of sniper drones( one of them are unbuilt)
1x Tau Empire Codex

$750-850ish

Just wondering which you would consider the better deal. Also i plan on selling the stingwings and kroot so you can ignore them on the second list.

Do you only play Apocalypse? Both those armies sound like WAY more than you'd need to get a decent size Tau army up and running. A sample 1500pt force for me might include 3/4 tanks, 3 broadsides, 7 crisis and maybe 20 fire warriors. You really don't need to spend $700 on a 5/6000pt army when you're just starting out with them. 76 Fire Warriors and 18 Crisis Suits (with 4 commanders?) will never get used.

You seem to have lots of Chaos as well - I'd say you should sell half your Chaos and get 1750/2000pts of Tau. You'll still have two armies, both at a decent playable size, and you can ease yourself into Tau without blowing all your money and current collection on a load of models you'll never use, or an army you might not like!

**Guilldog**

so this is the army list i came up with
i posted it in the army list area but there are so many people posting there i always get overshadowed

anyway this is what ive got

HQ
Commander:
2 Crisis Bodyguard
Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle
Burst Cannon
Bonding knife
Failsafe Detonator
Hardwired Blacksun Filter
Irdium Armor
stimulant injector
Warlord

Crisis BodyGuard 1:
Twinlinked Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle
Hardwired Blacksun Filter
Shield Drone

Crisis BodyGuard 2:
Plasma Rifle
TwinlinkedMissile Pod
Hardwired Blacksun Filter
Shield Drone

Elites:
Crisis Shas'vre:
Marker Drone
Team Leader
Shas'ver Upgrade
Burst Cannon
Fusion Blaster
Missile Pod
Hardwired Blacksun Filter

Crisis Battle suit:
Twinlinked Missile Pod
Plasma Rifle

Crisis Battle suit:
Twinlinked Missile Pod
Plasma rifle

Troops:
Fire Warriors (12)
Devilfish: Disruption Pod, 2 Gun Drones Black sun filter, 2 seeker missiles

Fire Warrior (12)
Devilfish: Disruption Pod, 2 Gun drones , Black sun filter, 2 Seeker missiles

Fire Warrior (12)
Devilfish: Disruption Pod, 2 Gun drones , Black sun filter, 2 Seeker missiles

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead Gunship: Railgun, Two Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Black Sun Filter

Fast Attack
Pathfinder (4)
3 rail rifles
Devilfish: Blacksun filter, Disruption pod, 2 Gundrones, 2 Seeker missiles

Pathfinder (4)
3 rail rifles
Devilfish: Blacksun filter, Disruption pod, 2 Gundrones, 2 Seeker missiles

**Freytag93**

*Warning: Contains my opinions and my justification. Not meant to be the end all say all. Just suggestions*
HQ:
Putting 3 weapons on everyone is not a good idea. The benefit of the suits is being able to shoot multiple weapons. Drop one of the weapons (twin linked MP and the Burst cannon from the leader) and give them shield generators. While its very expensive, it is worth it because it will give you a 4++ to help avoid ID. I would also recommend giving multi-trackers. That will give the you ability to shoot both weapons in the same turn, making the suits far more effective. Plus both the commander and the bodyguards can take wargear, so its not like you're giving up something. The failsafe detonator is cool, but rarely is worth it and is usually a waste of points. Lastly, I would recommend getting gun drones instead of shield drones along with taking 4 instead of 2 drones. The gun drones are cheaper and are only meant to be meat shields for your suits. Plus the gun drones give you more shooting and the off chance to pin a unit.

Elites:
Same thing as with the HQ. Drop one of the guns for the leader and give him a multi tracker. Idk about the marker drone. thats a lot of points... you'd prob be better off with 2 gun drones. As for the 2 regular suits, drop the non-twin linked weapons and give them (along with the leader) shield generators for the same reason as stated before. Just more resilient and point effective.

Troops:
Drop the seekers on the DF. You dont have many marker lights. Take those points and put them into multi trackers and target locks. this will allow you to move like a fast vehicle (move 12" and still shoot both weapons) and shoot your weapons at 2 different targets a turn. I would also recommend giving them SMS because it can do much more damage and it can ignore most cover.

Fast Attack:
I would be worried about having only 4 pathfinders. the unit could be destroyed very quickly... maybe 1 squad of 8? just something to keep in mind, it would only take one wound for them to have to take a Ld test. Same as before with the DF

Heavy:
Give the HH SMS, drop the seekers, and give a multi tacker and a target lock (same reasons as before)

Overall, these changes would put you at a slightly lower point cost and make most of your units more effective/ versatile. One more thing I would suggest. I would drop the second Pathfinder squad + DF and use those points for another HH. You need more heavy weapons to either blow tanks sky high or blast holes in hoard armies. The railgun does both. I'd like to discuss this with you and aswer any questions.
*Again, these are just my opinions from playing Tau the past year and a half. Not trying to be harsh*

EDIT: Just did the math. Your current list is at 2032. With the changes I suggested, you would be at 2222 (haha). So more expensive, but I would say much more versatile. To drop points to get down to 2000, you could drop the PF/DF to save 241 points. That alone would put you under. The new list would give you 2 destructive BS units, with 4 mobile FW squads to move-shoot-move (along with the DF much move powerful), and 2 HH to destroy the most dangerous targets at will. Your suits will have a 3+/4++. All your vehicles will have a 3+ CS when you move 12" while still being able to shoot all your weapons at multiple targets. The force is mobile, hostile, and deadly. Perfect Tau mentality.

**Guilldog**

Freytag93 wrote:
*Warning: Contains my opinions and my justification. Not meant to be the end all say all. Just suggestions*
HQ:
Putting 3 weapons on everyone is not a good idea. The benefit of the suits is being able to shoot multiple weapons. Drop one of the weapons (twin linked MP and the Burst cannon from the leader) and give them shield generators. While its very expensive, it is worth it because it will give you a 4++ to help avoid ID. I would also recommend giving multi-trackers. That will give the you ability to shoot both weapons in the same turn, making the suits far more effective. Plus both the commander and the bodyguards can take wargear, so its not like you're giving up something. The failsafe detonator is cool, but rarely is worth it and is usually a waste of points. Lastly, I would recommend getting gun drones instead of shield drones along with taking 4 instead of 2 drones. The gun drones are cheaper and are only meant to be meat shields for your suits. Plus the gun drones give you more shooting and the off chance to pin a unit.

Elites:
Same thing as with the HQ. Drop one of the guns for the leader and give him a multi tracker. Idk about the marker drone. thats a lot of points... you'd prob be better off with 2 gun drones. As for the 2 regular suits, drop the non-twin linked weapons and give them (along with the leader) shield generators for the same reason as stated before. Just more resilient and point effective.

Troops:
Drop the seekers on the DF. You dont have many marker lights. Take those points and put them into multi trackers and target locks. this will allow you to move like a fast vehicle (move 12" and still shoot both weapons) and shoot your weapons at 2 different targets a turn. I would also recommend giving them SMS because it can do much more damage and it can ignore most cover.

Fast Attack:
I would be worried about having only 4 pathfinders. the unit could be destroyed very quickly... maybe 1 squad of 8? just something to keep in mind, it would only take one wound for them to have to take a Ld test. Same as before with the DF

Heavy:
Give the HH SMS, drop the seekers, and give a multi tacker and a target lock (same reasons as before)

Overall, these changes would put you at a slightly lower point cost and make most of your units more effective/ versatile. One more thing I would suggest. I would drop the second Pathfinder squad + DF and use those points for another HH. You need more heavy weapons to either blow tanks sky high or blast holes in hoard armies. The railgun does both. I'd like to discuss this with you and aswer any questions.
*Again, these are just my opinions from playing Tau the past year and a half. Not trying to be harsh*

EDIT: Just did the math. Your current list is at 2032. With the changes I suggested, you would be at 2222 (haha). So more expensive, but I would say much more versatile. To drop points to get down to 2000, you could drop the PF/DF to save 241 points. That alone would put you under. The new list would give you 2 destructive BS units, with 4 mobile FW squads to move-shoot-move (along with the DF much move powerful), and 2 HH to destroy the most dangerous targets at will. Your suits will have a 3+/4++. All your vehicles will have a 3+ CS when you move 12" while still being able to shoot all your weapons at multiple targets. The force is mobile, hostile, and deadly. Perfect Tau mentality.

pm me and we can chat, where did you get your math from i built this list on army builder and it came out to less than 1750???

**Freytag93**

I just did it with the codex sitting in front of me. The Command squad and body guards as you had them were 350 pts, the BS squad was 226 pts, the FW and DF together were 230 pts each, the HH was 160 pts, and the PF and DF squads were 188 each.
I made sure I had all your upgrades and specifics.

Ah, there are only 3 FW and DF squads. Whoops. My bad. That would put you at 1802 pts by my count.

**Guilldog**

K well army builder must need an update cause it was like 1736 on there
Anyway i thank you for your input and ill take it into consideration, if any question come up I'll be sure to ask

**Freytag93**

Of course. Always glad to help a fellow Tauist.

**ArbitorIan**

Also, remember that all the Pathfinder weapons are Heavy. So, once you've deployed from your Devilfish in the Scout move, you're rarely going to get back into it. This means the Devilfish are then free to go back and load up with FW squads in the first turn, which saves on having to buy the FWs Devilfish too...!

Otherwise, similar points to above.

- Crisis suits work best with either two similar-strength weapons and a multi-tracker (so you can fire them both at the same target) or a twin linked weapon and a different support system. It looks like all your Elite suits are in squads of 1. I'd take them in squads of 3 - the advantage being that they can all benefit from some of the support systems. For example, I'd always take a squad of 3 Crisis with TL MP. One would get a Blacksun Filter, which affects the whole squad, one would get a Drone Controller and two gun drones, giving the whole squad two spare wounds, and one might take a Target Lock to split fire.

- Generally I'd say don't overload the suits with equipment - they're good because they're versatile, but they can still be IDd easily enough, and loads of hard wired stuff gets expensive quickly!!

- I'd say that drones are more useful ablative wounds than taking shield generators.

- You don't have that many markerlights to justify so many Seekers. At this points, I would combine the Pathfinders into one squad with only one or two Rail Rifles (Tau aren't short of high-S weaponry).

- I don't think you need Multitrackers on Devilfish, but you should take them on the Hammerhead.

Also (I know, I've said it before!!) but that whole army you list shouldn't set you back more than a few hundred on eBay. You really don't need to get a $700 mega-army to do that!

**spears**

I agree with the above, especially the price issue.
If you are willing to put a little time in i think you should be able to get those lists for a hell of a lot less dollar.

**Shinzra**

I am also thinking of starting up Tau, I really want a pure shooting focused army and Tau seem to have just that. May not be the best shooters with bs3 but marker lights seem to fix this issue, and enough strength 5+ weaponry to make meq armies quiver.

I am also thinking of using a similar list with the main focus being on suits and a few squads of fire warriors, my question is exactly how competitive is this?, I would like to be pretty competitive if it can be done.

**BoomWolf**

Tau=/=competetive ATM, lets get that idea out of your head. (maybe when the Tau flyer will be released, as this is Tau's biggest issue ATM.)

Playable though? sure, a suit spam is pretty much standard Tau list these days, and they preform pretty good actually.
You can also FW spam, or build a well-rounded force. the Tau are not the unplayable mess they used to be, 6th was very kind to them. still not enough to put up against cron air, paladin spam and such, but enough to give at least a serious fight to any non WAAC list.

Thing to note is that "suits" is not really defined, as that unit has a silly amout of possible setups that completely changes it's battlefield rules, gameplay, threat ranges, and targets of choice. they require a serious study in order to be properly used.

And if you can get forgeworld stuff:
Tetra-best markerligh source ever.
Plasma Hammerhead-might be the best tank in the game.