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I, personally am a great fan of the Landraider and have one in my crimson fist army which I use for running up assault terminators and Pedro kantor...this works very well and although a slow transport compared to rhinos etc it is very resilient, packs a might ton of ass kicking firepower and takes up a dedicated transport slot for me...it is expensive and I the 6th edition it is made weaker...but I still find this one useful and funny hunk of metal. What are your thoughts?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:
I, personally am a great fan of the Landraider and have one in my crimson fist army which I use for running up assault terminators and Pedro kantor...this works very well and although a slow transport compared to rhinos etc it is very resilient, packs a might ton of ass kicking firepower and takes up a dedicated transport slot for me...it is expensive and I the 6th edition it is made weaker...but I still find this one useful and funny hunk of metal. What are your thoughts?

Btw if you guys want to have a look at my crimson fist Landraider...click on my gallery

I doubt it will last long, however in most games it should last 2 turns on avg which is what you need to "get there"

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I doubt it will last long, however in most games it should last 2 turns on avg which is what you need to "get there"

Usually lasts for a while, can't remember exact number on turns but after it drops the termies off, it hangs around for a while! By the way, how many dedicated transports can you have? silly question I know but...is it as many units that can take a dedicated transport?

The problem you will have at our club is that there are 4 drop pod marine armies in fact all marine armies apart from yours and dans are drop armies which WILL nearly certainly destroy that in the first turn

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I doubt it will last long, however in most games it should last 2 turns on avg which is what you need to "get there"

Usually lasts for a while, can't remember exact number on turns but after it drops the termies off, it hangs around for a while! By the way, how many dedicated transports can you have? silly question I know but...is it as many units that can take a dedicated transport?

Correct you can have a Dedicated transport for each unit that can have one.
I took out 2 Landraiders last nite on turn 2 with My orks
Daemons would have done it on turn 1
Most people I know run enough meltas/railguns to reliably take it out in 2 turns.

 Truffle wrote:
The problem you will have at our club is that there are 4 drop pod marine armies in fact all marine armies apart from yours and dans are drop armies which WILL nearly certainly destroy that in the first turn

Bloody drop pod armies! 6th makes the use of drop pods so much better! I don't think I've had a game against a drop pod army with the Landraider but I have been up against one and got pwned.


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jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I doubt it will last long, however in most games it should last 2 turns on avg which is what you need to "get there"

Usually lasts for a while, can't remember exact number on turns but after it drops the termies off, it hangs around for a while! By the way, how many dedicated transports can you have? silly question I know but...is it as many units that can take a dedicated transport?

Correct you can have a Dedicated transport for each unit that can have one.
I took out 2 Landraiders last nite on turn 2 with My orks
Daemons would have done it on turn 1
Most people I know run enough meltas/railguns to reliably take it out in 2 turns.

Thanks yeah...seems now its only going to last two turns...everyone says that...

By the time you get up club again I will probably have my 1750 army built. I can show you what they are capable of and how you can try and counter them.

And dedicated transports, are they a good idea or can I make or save points to spend elsewhere and let marines walk up (lazy *****) e.g. Another vindicator

I prefer the crusader/redeemer over the vanilla raider.

The one reason being the assault cannon over the heavy bolter. However increased capacity means more termies inside, and when getting close, you can bring those ap3 templates to effect.

Problem with the normal one is that the long range lascannons goes against the need to get close to deliver cargo.

I don't have to worry about deep-strikes as can surround it with my warp-quakeing strikers and coteaz for I've been expecting you

I love playing drop pod armies (evil laugh)

 Truffle wrote:
By the time you get up club again I will probably have my 1750 army built. I can show you what they are capable of and how you can try and counter them.

Lol ok...it will be good for the experience...even if I do get owned.


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tuiman wrote:
I prefer the crusader/redeemer over the vanilla raider.

The one reason being the assault cannon over the heavy bolter. However increased capacity means more termies inside, and when getting close, you can bring those ap3 templates to effect.

Problem with the normal one is that the long range lascannons goes against the need to get close to deliver cargo.

I don't have to worry about deep-strikes as can surround it with my warp-quakeing strikers and coteaz for I've been expecting you

I see your point...but I choose anti- tank and vehicle over anything!

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:
And dedicated transports, are they a good idea or can I make or save points to spend elsewhere and let marines walk up (lazy *****) e.g. Another vindicator

On this case I'll say it depends on your meta, but it sounds like they're drop pod crazy ^^ Vindicators can be good here as long as you are able to protect them.

Also considering you can take 2xVindi for the price of 1LR IIRC

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 MilkyDamBusters wrote:
And dedicated transports, are they a good idea or can I make or save points to spend elsewhere and let marines walk up (lazy *****) e.g. Another vindicator

On this case I'll say it depends on your meta, but it sounds like they're drop pod crazy ^^ Vindicators can be good here as long as you are able to protect them.

Also considering you can take 2xVindi for the price of 1LR IIRC

Yeah...that's what I was thinking, well Ill keep my MofF close probably for repairs and some cqb or even range defense but what unit would be recommended for countering attacks? Probably going to get a second vindicator...love the models and they're pretty good on the table I think.

Hes right trio on vindicators could be a pain in the arse to drop pod players esp the less experienced ones who don't know how to deploy properly but how you deploy would be a massive importance.

You can always bubble-wrap your Land Raider, maybe use your Vindicators as a shield.

 Truffle wrote:
Hes right trio on vindicators could be a pain in the arse to drop pod players esp the less experienced ones who don't know how to deploy properly but how you deploy would be a massive importance.

Yeah, I can see how it would be especially if the drop pod doesn't go where the player wants it to go...but also, you mean go with 3 vindis? I may do...ill try two out first though...


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 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
You can always bubble-wrap your Land Raider, maybe use your Vindicators as a shield.

Haha, yeah that's actually a fairly good idea but...one big ass but...vindicators stationary to fire upon unsuspecting passer by's but Landraider will have to move up.

Landraiders are perhaps slightly overcosted now, but they are still quite useful. the Phobos (Godhammer) LR is probably the weakest, but they do have their place. Unlike other LR variants, I think the Phobos is best used as a counter assault unit. You hold it back to use the Lascannons and Heavy Bolter to pick off enemy infantry and armour as they move towards you, and then when they are close you pop the raider forward and disgorge a squad of assault terminators right where they will cause the most hurt.

For the other LR variants, they are much more aggressive. You want to be moving them forward and using them to get their target into combat as quickly as possible. They die a lot more easily, but the pain that they will inflict on the enemy can be overwhelming. Just be careful with them, and don't move them up if your men won't be able to make the charge and it will put you into charge/melta distance of the enemy.

Drop lists hurt all LR though, because they are a lot of eggs in one basket and a 5 man Sternguard squad with all combi-meltas can reliably waste an AV14 target the turn they arrive if they get within 6", which is easier in 6th due to the 6 inch disembark (for the math, its 5 shots each with a 2/3 chance to hit, a 0.584 chance to penetrate, and a 0.50 chance of getting "vehicle explodes" on the damage table, for 5*(2/3)*(0.584)*(0.5) = 0.973 or 97.3% chance to roll vehicle explodes for every 5 melta shots fired).

RegalPhantom wrote:
Landraiders are perhaps slightly overcosted now, but they are still quite useful. the Phobos (Godhammer) LR is probably the weakest, but they do have their place. Unlike other LR variants, I think the Phobos is best used as a counter assault unit. You hold it back to use the Lascannons and Heavy Bolter to pick off enemy infantry and armour as they move towards you, and then when they are close you pop the raider forward and disgorge a squad of assault terminators right where they will cause the most hurt.

For the other LR variants, they are much more aggressive. You want to be moving them forward and using them to get their target into combat as quickly as possible. They die a lot more easily, but the pain that they will inflict on the enemy can be overwhelming. Just be careful with them, and don't move them up if your men won't be able to make the charge and it will put you into charge/melta distance of the enemy.

Drop lists hurt all LR though, because they are a lot of eggs in one basket and a 5 man Sternguard squad with all combi-meltas can reliably waste an AV14 target the turn they arrive if they get within 6", which is easier in 6th due to the 6 inch disembark (for the math, its 5 shots each with a 2/3 chance to hit, a 0.584 chance to penetrate, and a 0.50 chance of getting "vehicle explodes" on the damage table, for 5*(2/3)*(0.584)*(0.5) = 0.973 or 97.3% chance to roll vehicle explodes for every 5 melta shots fired).

Ok, agree...part from,the Phobos pattern...is that the fancy name on the vanilla Landraider?

Yes, phobos is the name of the vanilla land raider

Armadeus wrote:
Yes, phobos is the name of the vanilla land raider

Ok then, I agree. It doesn't suit what I want it to do as it has long range weaponry and a redeemer would work better...but it's going to be hard to shell out 40 quid to get a another one lol...but tactically yeah.

Chaos Land Raiders are only the standard build, no fancy Crusaders or Redeemers. We also don't get a Machine Spirit or 12 man capacity, though they are a little cheaper.

I have four of them...

Useless. They suffer from the same "all your eggs in one basket" problem that kills other death star units, once you've bought the Land Raider and an appropriate unit to put inside it you've got 500+ points invested. Sure, that terminator + character death star might obliterate anything it touches, but it can only kill one target per turn and that almost always means it's going to massively overkill a 35-point Rhino or IG infantry squad or whatever. Meanwhile the Land Raider itself has laughable firepower for the points, so its sole purpose is to deliver the death star unit.

End result: anything the Land Raider unit can do can be done better by cheaper units.

They are potentially both!

6th has de-emphasised melta to an extent, so if your opponent is unprepared for AV14 then they are simply horrendous to deal with. Secondly don't underestimate the psychological impact they have. I often run a Redeemer with my BAs as well as a Storm Raven. I'm known for regularly taking the SR at my club, so my opponent normally expects it. If I rock up with a LR as well, they have some difficult target priorities to decide on. Doubly so if I deep strike the Raider in their face. (Not often but it's amusing from time to time)

The fact is you HAVE to take them seriously, or they will hurt you, and anything that gives you the power to dictate how your opponent behaves will always have a use.

On the flip side, one lucky shot or a list with heavy and maneuverable melta will have no more trouble eliminating it than a Dark Eldar transport, and they cost 4-5 times as many points as one of those Raiders!

 azreal13 wrote:
6th has de-emphasised melta to an extent, so if your opponent is unprepared for AV14 then they are simply horrendous to deal with. Secondly don't underestimate the psychological impact they have.

That's a pretty big "if". Any good player knows that AV 14 exists and will be prepared to stop it. TBH Leman Russes are a bigger threat, since you can actually bring more than 1-2 of them, while Land Raiders can't rely on target saturation against even small amounts of melta.

Doubly so if I deep strike the Raider in their face. (Not often but it's amusing from time to time)

Well, mishaps with a 500+ point unit are amusing for someone...

The fact is you HAVE to take them seriously, or they will hurt you, and anything that gives you the power to dictate how your opponent behaves will always have a use.

Or you just throw a 50 point unit in front of it and ignore it.

If that is your meta how bout LR phobos with assault terms bubblewrap.

Deploy on your table edge so vindis out of range even moving 6 and terms there to take combifire and then waste the podded troops.

No pods down, mount up and roll forward, lascannons hitting back. You are now rolling deathstar.

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
If that is your meta how bout LR phobos with assault terms bubblewrap.

Deploy on your table edge so vindis out of range even moving 6 and terms there to take combifire and then waste the podded troops.

Great, so now your terminators are gone and the Land Raider is garbage (a laughable two TL LCs for 250 points!). Land Raiders exist for one and only one purpose: to deliver their contents into assault. If you're suiciding the contents of the Land Raider you're completely reversing your priorities.

Im going to disagree with you Peregrine as I think LRs are outstanding.

The truth is there is not much that can take 10 sternguard when they pod accurately, thats why there are so many armies with them.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
If that is your meta how bout LR phobos with assault terms bubblewrap.

Deploy on your table edge so vindis out of range even moving 6 and terms there to take combifire and then waste the podded troops.

Great, so now your terminators are gone and the Land Raider is garbage (a laughable two TL LCs for 250 points!). Land Raiders exist for one and only one purpose: to deliver their contents into assault. If you're suiciding the contents of the Land Raider you're completely reversing your priorities.

Hmmm...I agree oh some aspects of your argument, but I don't believe they're only for delivering contents (termies) like I said first off, don't know how, but my Landraider tends to hang around for a while whilst the assault termies are in CC. Maybe blowing the odd chaos rhino and killing a few troops.


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 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Im going to disagree with you Peregrine as I think LRs are outstanding.

The truth is there is not much that can take 10 sternguard when they pod accurately, thats why there are so many armies with them.

I also agree, landraiders are actually a really good transport system, both have strengths and weaknesses.

I like the phobos. When I field my LR, it generally had 5 assault terminators and a chaplain on board. I only have the one, and play WYSWYG, so don't field a LRC or LRR.

I use it as a counter-deathstar reserve unit. Not the start off the table reserve, but the reinforce the fight were needed kind. The first turn or two is slowly advancing, shooting the godhammers. At that point I should have a good idea where the box-o-pain needs to be delivered to. So I move up and assault.

It works for me.

If you want land raiders, you want to play BA.
You can get 6 as dedicated deep striking troop choices at under 2000 points.
And of course, they can deep strike too.

Of course, I'd rather have 4 land raiders and 3 Storm Ravens, but that just me.

-Matt

Neither useless nor powerful is my answer to the OP.

AV14 is a gamble in a universe with lance weapons and meltas. The firing arcs are bad as they leave a large dead zone just in front, especially with the new (sensible) aiming rules. Transport capacity is very limited, especially when you want to put in an attached IC or two as well. Only the loyalists get variants to partly mend this. The pt cost is too high. It should be about 190 for the vanilla.

The real problem is the LR is the only thing I have as CSM that can reliably deliver terminators. So, I MUST take it, even if it is otherwise suboptimal. The only redeeming feature of that combo is that the LRs are taken as dedicated transports, so one can save the HS slots for other things.

My suspicion is GW figured people have a ton of LRs out there already. No point to make them better, when the new models must be showcased and sold. It is the usual marketing BS. What I am surprised about is that they did not let CSMs get access to the LR variants, which would have stimulated a bump up in the purchasing, albeit a small one as players could just use the vanillas as "counts as".

Overall I am very disappointed with LR in 6th and in the new CSM codex, not because they are horrible (they are ok), but because of the loss of a great opportunity.