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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Tau have a dark side but overall are significantly better then any faction in 40k and I think that works out fine, you can have a more shade of grey faction then everyone being ULTRA GRIMDARK.

My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts


 
   
Made in no
Terrifying Doombull





Hefnaheim

 Kroothawk wrote:
There is one race in the 40k universe that doesn't want to kill everything in sight. Let's keep this niche for gamers, who don't think that crazy raging mass murderers are the coolest thing on earth.


By the gods! What do you mean mass murder and wanton slaugther is not a nice thing? But to answer the OP. Tau are the one race I wish GW would discontinue, it dose not belong in 40k nor dose their shades of grey either, Its a reason why Tau player are not welcome in my local club.
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






 Trondheim wrote:
By the gods! What do you mean mass murder and wanton slaugther is not a nice thing? But to answer the OP. Tau are the one race I wish GW would discontinue, it dose not belong in 40k nor dose their shades of grey either, Its a reason why Tau player are not welcome in my local club.


I hate this mentality so bad. It really sounds terrible when you don't welcome a person into the club because of the FLUFF made by the SAME COMPANY that they have NO CONTROL OVER for an army they like to play.

To me it sounds like "LOL! I'm so edgy I cut my razor while shaving! I need everything in my game to be dark and terrible. I play slaughter marines, they eat orphan's faces for breakfast."

Who wouldn't welcome the comedic straight man to a game filled up with armies of rapists (Dark Eldar), Gods/Daemons of Rape (Slaanesh), and mass murderers (ANYONE, like literally every faction on an hourly basis.)

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in gb
Hallowed Canoness





Between

 Savageconvoy wrote:

Why do people keep stating that ethereals mind control Tau like it's a fact? It's suggested in the book, but it's a GW suggestion. They also suggest the Emperor is fading and could be reborn as a dark god or as a god of order. They suggest that Necrons have a frozen primarch. That something is chasing the Nids.

And that would be one hell of a psychich ability to span across planets. They don't mention how spread out ethereals are, but I'm guessing they can't constantly be around to influence people.

And Farsight's enclave doesn't prove that Tau will stray from Greater Good without Ethereal influence. His story isn't clearly explained and sounds more like a case of a loose cannon cop with nothing to lose.


The Tau 'Mind Control' ability isn't psionic in nature. It was stated in the original Codex: Tau, and reinforced in the Fire Warrior novelisation, which is as canon as any Black Library, that the Ethereals use pheromones (IE, natural chemical markers detected nasally that go straight to the subconcious) to instil certain emotions (emotional calmness, I believe) and obedience in nearby Tau. Collquially, players refer to this as "mind control", but it's not psychic or 100% complete in any way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Savageconvoy wrote:
 Trondheim wrote:
By the gods! What do you mean mass murder and wanton slaugther is not a nice thing? But to answer the OP. Tau are the one race I wish GW would discontinue, it dose not belong in 40k nor dose their shades of grey either, Its a reason why Tau player are not welcome in my local club.


I hate this mentality so bad. It really sounds terrible when you don't welcome a person into the club because of the FLUFF made by the SAME COMPANY that they have NO CONTROL OVER for an army they like to play.

To me it sounds like "LOL! I'm so edgy I cut my razor while shaving! I need everything in my game to be dark and terrible. I play slaughter marines, they eat orphan's faces for breakfast."

Who wouldn't welcome the comedic straight man to a game filled up with armies of rapists (Dark Eldar), Gods/Daemons of Rape (Slaanesh), and mass murderers (ANYONE, like literally every faction on an hourly basis.)


Orks aren't mass murderers. They're just playing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/03 16:20:37




"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. 
   
Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el






Orks use body parts from smaller Orks as currency!!!

I'm expecting an Imperial Knights supplement dedicated to GW's loyalist apologetics. Codex: White Knights "In the grim dark future, everything is fine."

"The argument is that we have to do this or we will, bit by bit,
lose everything that we hold dear, everything that keeps the business going. Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky."
-Tom Kirby 
   
Made in no
Terrifying Doombull





Hefnaheim

 Savageconvoy wrote:
 Trondheim wrote:
By the gods! What do you mean mass murder and wanton slaugther is not a nice thing? But to answer the OP. Tau are the one race I wish GW would discontinue, it dose not belong in 40k nor dose their shades of grey either, Its a reason why Tau player are not welcome in my local club.


I hate this mentality so bad. It really sounds terrible when you don't welcome a person into the club because of the FLUFF made by the SAME COMPANY that they have NO CONTROL OVER for an army they like to play.

To me it sounds like "LOL! I'm so edgy I cut my razor while shaving! I need everything in my game to be dark and terrible. I play slaughter marines, they eat orphan's faces for breakfast."

Who wouldn't welcome the comedic straight man to a game filled up with armies of rapists (Dark Eldar), Gods/Daemons of Rape (Slaanesh), and mass murderers (ANYONE, like literally every faction on an hourly basis.)


Well that is your rigth I suppose, and why should we allow such people into the club? I do not welcome such things in 40k, its supposed to be grim, bloody and filled with despair! And I dont shave if you where wondering about that
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 LoneLictor wrote:


1) I doubt that. Progress usually ends badly in 40k. Look at the Necrons


Uhm...what. Necrons used to be a civilization where everyone died in their youngsters and now, they are will-less yet immortal and unstoppable machines led by their dark gods, the C'tan. I don't see how that turned against the Necrons though as they were able to strip from their mortal bodies and became ever-faithful and ever-living (pun intended) servants to their gods.

In the end, they became far mightier than before and are now much closer to their ultimate goal: destroying all life there is.

   
Made in us
Sinewy Scourge





Salt Lake City, Utah

They may be nice, but that doesn't make them weak by any means.

The mind control thing is just an Imperial theory which they adopt because they can't comprehend an entire race cooperating and obeying willfully and under no duress. But if it were true, as stated above, Farsight never would have had the choice to leave the empire. There are other examples but that's a big one.
This also means that the Tau are not fascist. They are strongly utilitarian.

Don't be fooled by BL bolter porn writing. Everything Tau accomplishes, it accomplishes with inferior numbers, because they use only what they need. Overtaking an enemy with sheer numbers is an imperial strategy which continues to fail against the Tau. The imperium is going to have to get smarter than they currently are if they want to beat the Tau. As they are, they'll continue to be outclassed by superior tech and forward thinking.

You can't spell 'slaughter' without 'laughter'.
By the time they scream... It's too late.
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Made in us
Fireknife Shas'el




 Furyou Miko wrote:
 Savageconvoy wrote:

Why do people keep stating that ethereals mind control Tau like it's a fact? It's suggested in the book, but it's a GW suggestion. They also suggest the Emperor is fading and could be reborn as a dark god or as a god of order. They suggest that Necrons have a frozen primarch. That something is chasing the Nids.

And that would be one hell of a psychich ability to span across planets. They don't mention how spread out ethereals are, but I'm guessing they can't constantly be around to influence people.

And Farsight's enclave doesn't prove that Tau will stray from Greater Good without Ethereal influence. His story isn't clearly explained and sounds more like a case of a loose cannon cop with nothing to lose.


The Tau 'Mind Control' ability isn't psionic in nature. It was stated in the original Codex: Tau, and reinforced in the Fire Warrior novelisation, which is as canon as any Black Library, that the Ethereals use pheromones (IE, natural chemical markers detected nasally that go straight to the subconcious) to instil certain emotions (emotional calmness, I believe) and obedience in nearby Tau. Collquially, players refer to this as "mind control", but it's not psychic or 100% complete in any way.


Nasally you say. I think there might be a problem with that idea.
   
Made in ie
Hallowed Canoness




Ireland

Furyou Miko wrote:It was stated in the original Codex: Tau, [...]
Do you remember where exactly? If this is something I missed, I would have to modify my personal interpretation of the setting by this bit.

Furyou Miko wrote:[...] and reinforced in the Fire Warrior novelisation, which is as canon as any Black Library [...]
Which is to say not at all.

There is no such thing as The One True Canon in 40k, only lots of different visions by countless authors, readers and gamers alike.

Furyou Miko wrote:Orks aren't mass murderers. They're just playing.


Harriticus wrote:Tau have a dark side but overall are significantly better then any faction in 40k and I think that works out fine, you can have a more shade of grey faction then everyone being ULTRA GRIMDARK.
Well said - expressed my thoughts better than my own earlier post.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/03 17:00:08


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Holland , Vermont

Tau also fill a niche in the archtype roles, we have ancient forgotten empires, crumbling empires, ravening empires, and corrupting empires, they are the emerging empire, adds to the dynamics of the setting.

And as to all the ethereal control schemes, even FFG has retconed any idea of mind control or pheremones, stateing something to the effect of "something deeper" may be occuring (not sure exact wording my deathwatch books in packed away)

Mind control would be problematic unless Ethereals are far more common than it seems, and pheremones would require all sealed systems, ships , and life support systems to be tailored to allow the Pheremones acess to the sealed enviroments, and again would mean constant exposure to these controls, or have them be so potent that its a one time exposure, who knows.

Myself ..never underestimate the power of indoctrination and propaganda..has worked for the imperium so why not others.

And finally to the fellow that stated his gaming group bans any Tau players from joining their club..bravo likely you have done him a favor and spared him his misfortune to interact with such a narrowminded and petty group.
sorry man but thats about the dumbest gaming group rule I have ever read.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/03 17:20:23


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Made in gb
Ork-Hunting Inquisitorial Xenokiller





There's also the stories of Tau Concentration Camps and the Tau's assassination of one of their own commanders (Brightsword) to avoid a political catastrophe which sort of already happened.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sigvatr wrote:
 LoneLictor wrote:


1) I doubt that. Progress usually ends badly in 40k. Look at the Necrons


Uhm...what. Necrons used to be a civilization where everyone died in their youngsters and now, they are will-less yet immortal and unstoppable machines led by their dark gods, the C'tan. I don't see how that turned against the Necrons though as they were able to strip from their mortal bodies and became ever-faithful and ever-living (pun intended) servants to their gods.

In the end, they became far mightier than before and are now much closer to their ultimate goal: destroying all life there is.

Actually, its even better than that. They are the only faction to successfully kill a god. Not even that, a selection of Gods. They are now one of the only factions that can afford to have its own inner political systems and conflicts on grand scales and does it all the time. They view organizing their files as not a boring task, but a way of using up the infinite years they have to use. Seem more advanced to me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/03 17:42:08


 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




Florida

I like them this way after all how much stronger would the good"ish" races be if they banded together instead of beat at each other with the wolves out side the door.

Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results.
George S. Patton : The wode capn deaf klawz Freebooters Shas'O Storm knifes Shan'al  
   
Made in ca
Cultist of Nurgle with Open Sores






Canada

SPACE COMMIES!!! Of course they're evil. 150 million deaths in 50 years on Earth according to the Black Book of Communism (author S. Comptois), imagine the 41st millenium's billions...

(Yes, this is Troll bait.)

But referring to the OP's original intent, I do indeed find that the way the official fluff is written makes the Tau seem far too nice, you've got to search hard to see the dark truth. It should have been more obvious, more controversial.

And I do find them far too Robotech-like for 40k. I like the Vespid, I like the Kroot, but I don't like the Tau's look at all.

DR:70+S+GM+B++I--Pat4310#-DA+++/mWD347R++T(T)DM+

 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




If the Tau are too good for some people, I can only imagine those same people want the Space Wolves, Ultramarines, and Salamanders gone too.

I think the Tau are fine. Worst thing I can really say about them is that the Vespid are really ugly.
   
Made in us
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge




Virginia, USA

As a former Tau player(switched to IG... until their new Codex comes out ). I feel I should have a say in this, I'm well known in my gaming group for yelling "FOR THE GREATER GOOD" ....now "FOR THE EMPEROR" when I throw my dice lol.

Fun bit aside, I have to disagree with the idea that Chaos are truly "Gods". It's simply an example of human language being limited, in my opinion, in not being able to describe Chaos... the true meaning of a God as it pertains today doesn't really fit.

They are however, completely and totally alien and do not obey our "natural order" due to being, you guessed it, NOT from our natural order. I view them as simply really powerful aliens and not Gods but maybe that's my Atheism creeping into my lore haha. I see no reason why the Tau could not deal with the Warp technologically.

On the topic of the Tau, I also never believed their caste system was very Orwellian or evil though a lot of people tend to think that way because of OUR experience with caste systems. You have to remember the Tau are not simply put into the caste their in because of who birthed them, it's literally in their genetics. The Air Caste are actually an aerial variant species of the Tau... it makes perfect sense why they would be in that Caste.

This is alien to us and their system is, in my opinion, totally alien and uncomparable to us(albeit extremely interesting).

Also... communism isn't evil it's never REALLY been done or taken in proper context to be executed correctly.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/04 06:40:05


Shas'O J'Osh  
   
Made in de
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






germany,bavaria

Archonate wrote:

Don't be fooled by BL bolter porn writing. Everything Tau accomplishes, it accomplishes with inferior numbers, because they use only what they need. Overtaking an enemy with sheer numbers is an imperial strategy which continues to fail against the Tau. The imperium is going to have to get smarter than they currently are if they want to beat the Tau. As they are, they'll continue to be outclassed by superior tech and forward thinking.


Oh, really?

Take away that plot-armor and the Tau are down in seconds.
But we know they will be kept because:

Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:Tau also fill a niche in the archtype roles, we have ancient forgotten empires, crumbling empires, ravening empires, and corrupting empires, they are the emerging empire, adds to the dynamics of the setting.




Atheos wrote:

Also... communism isn't evil it's never REALLY been done or taken in proper context to be executed correctly.


Deal with the fall-out of attempts at communism like we do in europe and you start to think otherwise..

Still a lot of the Tau fluff doesn't fit into the franchise as well as it could, so the question if they are "too good" may return again and again until they are "updated" for 6th ed. Which may happen so just wait where they go...


Target locked,ready to fire



In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.

H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 Peregrine wrote:
 LoneLictor wrote:
In 40k, the Gods are real. So it ain't superstition.


Nope.

1) The gods are only "real" in the sense that they're the most powerful beings in the universe at the moment. Advancing technology will put an end to that nonsense eventually.



I don't see how one contradicts the other? Where is it written that Gods need to be exceptionally powerful, even invincible? Most non-monotheistic religions have their Gods getting pwned on occassion, often enough by mortals.

The status of "God-hood" in itself says nothing about power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could someone explain to me the Tau = Communist idea?

Given that Tau have a whole caste (Water), roughly 25% of their race, dedicated to trade and business, it would strike me as one of the most, if not the most capitalist faction of 40K (with the Ork 'Teeth' economy being the possible exception).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/04 12:23:43


   
Made in de
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Zweischneid wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 LoneLictor wrote:
In 40k, the Gods are real. So it ain't superstition.


Nope.

1) The gods are only "real" in the sense that they're the most powerful beings in the universe at the moment. Advancing technology will put an end to that nonsense eventually.



I don't see how one contradicts the other? Where is it written that Gods need to be exceptionally powerful, even invincible? Most non-monotheistic religions have their Gods getting pwned on occassion, often enough by mortals.

The status of "God-hood" in itself says nothing about power.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Could someone explain to me the Tau = Communist idea?

Given that Tau have a whole caste (Water), roughly 25% of their race, dedicated to trade and business, it would strike me as one of the most, if not the most capitalist faction of 40K (with the Ork 'Teeth' economy being the possible exception).


Either people are stupid and get dumber by the minute or the entire Tau = Communists idea is only used as some kind of dated joke. That's the only explanation i have. Of course, the existence of the water cast says relatively about the ecomonomic system of the Tau Empire. For all we know they might have some kind of command economy which can still require the existence of traders ( especialy if we assume that the various Septs and member worlds have a degree of autonomy and for the trade with alien empires ) but is pretty far away from any captalist system.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





1hadhq wrote:

Deal with the fall-out of attempts at communism like we do in europe and you start to think otherwise..

Still a lot of the Tau fluff doesn't fit into the franchise as well as it could, so the question if they are "too good" may return again and again until they are "updated" for 6th ed. Which may happen so just wait where they go...



Reading the fluff, it just seems different, not "too good". They have the same "convert or die" mentality the imperium does. Now, it may not be "convert, and we will probably kill you anyways", or "convert, and we may kill you to set an example", or "we're going to kill you and eat you regardless", but as far as their expansionist philosophy goes, they don't look much different than an IG-only Imperium. Anyone think the IG needs to get canned because they aren't "dark" enough?

As far as projecting based off communist regimes, there has never been an actual human communist regime (as the political philosophy is envisioned). You are comparing them to nationalist or socialist dictatorships who simply called themselves "communists" to get the masses to buy in, and if you want to project based off nationalist dictatorships, I guess we all know where the Imperium is going to wind up, so let's just dump all of the imperium's factions. We know what happened to empires that sacrificed prisoners to sate a god's blood thirst. We know what happened to slavers. We know what happened to theocracies. GW should just announce they are discontinuing support for everything except nids, orks and crons, because everything else is based off a philosophy that failed at some point in human history.

Come on, it's not like the Tau have a "rainbow gun" that fills your CSM's helmet with butterflies and happy thoughts.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/04 13:14:13


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 KingDeath wrote:
For all we know they might have some kind of command economy which can still require the existence of traders ( especialy if we assume that the various Septs and member worlds have a degree of autonomy and for the trade with alien empires ) but is pretty far away from any captalist system.


Pretty far away from any capitalist system? Compared to what?

Compared to 21st century USA. A given.

Compared to 41st Millenium IoM? Makes Tau look like Ayn Rand disciples with a vengeance.

Compared to 19th century imperial mercantilism. Pretty much what the Tau do writ large in space.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/04 13:43:09


   
Made in il
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch






 1hadhq wrote:


Oh, really?

Take away that plot-armor and the Tau are down in seconds.



Why? because of the game stats? they ahve NOTHING to do with fluff.

Fluff-wise Tau firewarrios, while not as genetically mighty, and not as well armored, pack standard rifles that make space marines heavy weapons look bad in comparison.

Crisis suits pack more firepower each then a squad of tactical marines.

Heck, the "heavy infantry" railgun (devestator equivilant) is, by fluff, able to take down multiple takes by shot if aim correctly, and even kill entire platoons of evenmy soldiers just flying next to them.

can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 1hadhq wrote:


Take away that plot-armor and the Tau are down in seconds.
But we know they will be kept because:




Take away that plot-armour and every last Space Marine chapter would've been gone ages ago. "Winning" battles with hundreds of losses every other Thursday while it takes decade to train your guys? Thanks for trying.

Take away that plot-armour and Tyranids would've been a forgotten memory as soon as they appeared. Have they actually ever won a battle? Didn't think so. They just fail their way through the galaxy getting their ass kicked by Maugan Ra when they try to make planet-fall. If they make it, Vostroyans starve(!) them to death. Lol.

Take away that plot-armour and Eldar would almost certainly be gone. A dying race sending your precious survivors to the front-line meatgrinder in every battle? Wisdom of the ancients I suppose...

Take away that plot-armour and Dark Eldar (cum Commorrah) would be gone. Vect just popped a super-massive black hole in your central city? Only takes one idiot to wipe out a species I guess.

Take away that plot armour and the Imperial Guard is toast. 20th century tactics/wargear in intergalactic warfare? Its like caveman trying to invade 21st Century United States.

Etc.. .

   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

The Tau empire is very small on a galactic level. Even accounting for fluff, the Tau Empire should have been eaten by the Tyranids. They simply don't have the numbers needed to resist the attacks of other races.

The Daemocles Gulf crusade illustrates this. It was a very small imperial crusade, yet it managed to pierce deep into the Tau empire. They only left because there were more important threats then some puny alien empire.

Yet in contrast to this, the Tau manage to fend off a Hive Fleet. It makes no sense. The only reason is because the Tau have much more plot armor then any other faction as a whole(some individuals have more but thats seperate)

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




West Midlands (UK)

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Tau empire is very small on a galactic level. Even accounting for fluff, the Tau Empire should have been eaten by the Tyranids. They simply don't have the numbers needed to resist the attacks of other races.


Tau might be small, but Tyranids are miniscule

The largest (!) known Hive Fleet ever to enter the Galaxy, back when nobody even know anything about them, was stopped dead in their tracks by a single Space Marines Chapter (1000 guys) at Maccragge.

Maugan Ra managed to stop them from making planetfall all by himself. A single guy.

By the Nid Codex own map in the book, they ran into trouble going up against a single Ork Freeboota.

Tau might not be the biggest kid on the block, but they are gazillion times more numerous than a single (!) Space Marine chapter, much less a single (!!) Phoenix Lord with an endless clip of ammo and special pole-to-pole running boots. Tyranids shouldn't even register as a credible threat in 40K.

   
Made in gb
Junior Officer with Laspistol




Perth/Glasgow

if you haven't seen the latest walking dead
Spoiler:
The Tau are like the town in the Walking Dead
They appear all nice and friendly and the people are generally on the personal scale but the leaders have many skeletons in their closet and don't like outsiders.
They want to advance and get more people to the but in their specific way and vision

Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Zweischneid wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
The Tau empire is very small on a galactic level. Even accounting for fluff, the Tau Empire should have been eaten by the Tyranids. They simply don't have the numbers needed to resist the attacks of other races.


Tau might be small, but Tyranids are miniscule

The largest (!) known Hive Fleet ever to enter the Galaxy, back when nobody even know anything about them, was stopped dead in their tracks by a single Space Marines Chapter (1000 guys) at Maccragge.


Not really true, they had significant help from the Ultramar Auxilia (i.e. better then most Guard Regiments), a Titan Legion, and Imperial Navy support.

Plus Behemoth was the smallest Hive Fleet, the largest is Leviathan that made Behemoth seem like an insect.

My Armies:
5,500pts
2,700pts
2,000pts


 
   
Made in gb
Wing Commander






 Trondheim wrote:
Tau are the one race I wish GW would discontinue, it dose not belong in 40k nor dose their shades of grey either, Its a reason why Tau player are not welcome in my local club.

What a terrible, terrible outlook to have as a hobbyist. Seriously? The "you don't think exactly as I do so get out" attitude? I dread to think how this bleeds into your other, more serious political and social values. Maybe it's people with your kind of mentality that GW should be discontinuing from its hobby, and not one of their more diverse, unique races...

 1hadhq wrote:
Oh, really?

Take away that plot-armor and the Tau are down in seconds.

Something which is equally applicable to every single one of 40K's races.

 Grey Templar wrote:
They simply don't have the numbers needed to resist the attacks of other races.

The Daemocles Gulf crusade illustrates this. It was a very small imperial crusade, yet it managed to pierce deep into the Tau empire. They only left because there were more important threats then some puny alien empire.

There's a few issues, here, starting with that being a very Imperial-centric take on it. Let's look at things a little more evenly. First, the Damocles Gulf Crusade proved that the Tau do indeed have the numbers and the capability of standing up to its galactic neighbours. It may have been a small Imperial effort, but that's all that the IoM can afford to send their way, meaning that the Tau are already powerful enough to fight them off. Why? Because the things that are impeding the Imperium from turning and facing this new threat sufficiently aren't going away any time soon. In fact, they're only going to get worse, and the Imperium itself is no closer to halting or reversing its own decline.

Second, you say "yet it managed to pierce deep into the Tau Empire", whereas a more accurate assessment would be; "yet it was halted on the very first major Sept of the Empire it encountered". At the time of the Crusade, the Empire's borders didn't really reach beyond the Del'yth system. The Gulf region and the Imperial worlds just beyond were being probed by Water Caste trade and political advisors/negotiators, and Del'yth itself was more a centre for trade and commerce in the Empire. Therefore, the Imperial Crusaders smashed their way through some human secessionists and minor trade fleets before hitting a wall at the first sign of Tau space/territory proper. They didn't get deep by any means. After Del'yth, they would need to conquer both Vior'la and Sa'cea, whilst keeping their flanks secure from the Gulf and the Perdus Rift regions, maintaining a constant and stable supply line. Both these Septs are major, military population centres, providing the Empire with its most skilled and numerous supply of Fire Warriors. This would need to be done before an assault on the Tau's core systems (including its homeworld) could even begin to be conceptualised, and would need successive waves of Crusaders (troops, ships, supplies) and perhaps a decade or more of campaigning, at least. Lastly, the orders that called for the recall and redeployment of all Eastern-based forces in light of Behemoth was only half the reason the DGC failed, the other half being that they were caught in a stalemate on Del'yth with little hope of securing it for further advancement, let alone any chance of launching new offensives into deeper, more heavily contested zones of Tau space.

All in all, the DGC was a tough lesson for both sides. The Imperium, in its ignorance and arrogance, set off thinking its meagre force, that soon found itself spread thin with little to no supply line to call on, facing an alien race they had vastly, vastly underestimated, would be enough to quell this small, upstart xenos realm. The Tau, at last, caught a glimpse of what the Imperium's true, militaristic and highly xenophobic face looked like, and learnt that the galaxy was a much wider and much darker place, and that their continual spheres of expansion will not come so much through prosperity, trade and peaceful negotiation, but through much, much bitter bloodshed.

Homebrew Imperial Guard: 1222nd Etrurian Lancers (Winged); Special Air-Assault Brigade (SAAB)
Homebrew Chaos: The Black Suns; A Medrengard Militia (think Iron Warriors-centric Blood Pact/Sons of Sek) 
   
Made in gb
Furious Raptor




A top the tip of the endless spire

Well I feel that the Tau are a nice change of feel for 40k and to be honest aren't a bad addition to it. However I will say that a lot of their "dark" fluff comes from outside of the canon. So taking that into account I can see why some people find them not quite grim dark enough for the 40k setting. On the subject of Chaos gods I try to look at them as alien beings that have attained a level of existence comparable to what we, the human race, consider a 'god' to be. So yes they are gods. Doesn't mean they are unkillable though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
damn I mess up my vote... that should have been no... (I thought it said ''are Tau good for 40k?'')...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/04 17:27:36


''I am the prophet of doom!''
Really?
''Yes... the last thing you shall see before your eyes close...''
.....will be?
''....your bedroom ceiling'' 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I love how people are unironically stating the Tau have more plot armor than Space Marines. Next you're going to tell me that the Orks are the Mary Sues of the franchise.
   
 
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