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So with the new wound allocation you can't kill units you can't see. But Blast weapons can hit units you can't see, because of scatter.

So my question is if you fire a blast weapon let's say a Doomsday Cannon (S9 AP1), at a unit of 10 SM, You can see 3, but the other 7 are hiding behind their Rhino. After Scatter you hit all ten and the Rhino (take that Human scum!) You roll to wound and end up getting 9.

On Page 33 of the BRB it says: Once the Number of hits inflicted on the unit has been worked out, roll to wound and save as normal. Any unsaved wounds are then allocated on the unit as for the normal shooting attack.

And because of the "Out of Sight" Rule, if the firing model can't see a model in the unit that it is firing at, it can't be wounded.

How many can be killed if the Rhino doesn't blow up? 3 or 9? How many if the Rhino does blow up (allowing the Doomsday Arc to see the other guys)?

Word form word it sounds like the rules say only 3 can be. This doesn't seem right to me. I mean the Blast hit 10 guys, and wounded 9. It's not 3 guys being hit by ten shots form guns. It's an explosion that hit 10 guys.

Even though special rule breaks normal rule *blast over normal shooting* it states that you Can Hit and Wound but states it must do so as a Normal shooting attack now Barrage states its from the center of the blast...


UPDATE * FAQ says that if it does not scatter you can kill out of line of sight So does mean if it does scatter you can't?

the FAQ does NOT say you can kill out of los.

Q: Can blast markers hit a model that is not in the attacker’s line of sight if they do NOT scatter? (p33)
A: Yes, as long as the target enemy model for the blast weapon is within the firer’s line of sight.

There is no allowance to ignore P16 "out of sight"

Technically even if a blast scatters it has no allowance to wound models out of LOS; the rule in the BRB literally has no use

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Technically even if a blast scatters it has no allowance to wound models out of LOS; the rule in the BRB literally has no use

Why would they print a rule that does nothing?

It can generate more wounds, forcing the models in LOS to make extra saving throws, but the the allocation process blocks killing any out of LOS.
Somewhat counterintuitive, but it's what is clearly written down in the rules.

As long as the model you place the blast template over is in range and LOS, it can scatter out of range and LOS and cause wounds, however these wounds are still taken against the closest models to the firer.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Technically even if a blast scatters it has no allowance to wound models out of LOS; the rule in the BRB literally has no use

Why would they print a rule that does nothing?

Because GW dont know their own rules that well?

THe intent is probable that a scattering blast is then able to cause wounds out of LOS, however (and if you search there is a huuuuge thread on this) the rules dont seem to allow it.

Currently all hitting models out of LOS, scattering or otherwise, does is to generate more hits that can populate the wound pool, to *really* make sure that guy you CAN see is dead

Thanks for the fast repley

The three primary arguments that scattering blasts cannot kill models out of LoS rest on three very strange principles:

1) A wound is no longer a wound after you've rolled it.
2) A model is not part of a unit.
3) "As normal" actually means ignoring any rules that would normally apply

Since all of these principles are complete nonsense, the rule that you can wound units out of LoS and casualties are removed as normal means that models in such units are subject to being removed as casualties.

Pyrian wrote:

1) A wound is no longer a wound after you've rolled it.

Actually, the rules say that - page 16 out of sight.

2) A model is not part of a unit.

I've never seen that argument - it's demonstrably false.

3) "As normal" actually means ignoring any rules that would normally apply

Could you elaborate?

Since all of these principles are complete nonsense, the rule that you can wound units out of LoS and casualties are removed as normal means that models in such units are subject to being removed as casualties.

Well, no - that's not true. Saying they're no sense (which only the second one is) and therefore not true doesn't hold water.
It's better to disprove an argument than to say that it's wrong

My understanding is that you work out wounds from a blast template measuring from the hole.

Seems to me that LoS should then be from the hole to the model; not from the model that fired.

clively wrote:
My understanding is that you work out wounds from a blast template measuring from the hole.

Seems to me that LoS should then be from the hole to the model; not from the model that fired.

Thats how barrage works specifically.