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Many of the CC nerfs that took place in 6th edition seem oriented, at least in theory, to preventing one player from getting an unfair jump on another. After all, there is not much defense one can get against someone appearing on the right side and pouncing your flank in a charge. You can deploy centrally, of course, but that is rather limiting on the defender's side. So surpise flanking charges after outflanking are no longer a thing, making Mandrakes, Kommandos and Genestealers migrate en masse back to shelves and boxes stuffed with bubblewrap.

But if that's the reason, how come drop pods have not only not been nerfed as well, but actually buffed? Unlike outflankers, you know with a 100% certainty when half of them will land. In fact, they allow you to receive reserves in the first turn, something no other army has. And while you can move troops away from the edges to avoid outflanking, there is no place you can hide from a drop pod, as they have great deviation insurance (just make sure you are 12" from any edges) and will always come in response to your movement in the previous turn.

In fact, they can drop in before you do anything at all, if the player gets first turn, turning your Land Raider or Monolith into a crater before it even warms up. And if the inertial guidance doesn't deliver that perfect melta shot, no need to fret: you now get to walk your full 6 inches to position yourself while the opponent watches.

What is the reasoning behind curb-stomping CC armies for their use of advanced reserves but empowering the ranged version of it?

At the club I go to...drop pods are literally spammed onto the table...according to the club manager there's only 2 armies including mine that aren't drop pod armies! They are a pain the arse to deal with I must admit...but I think I will get by.

The same as demonic assault if not worse as you have to pay for drop pods, plus once those juicy units have dropped in front of you they are now within rapid fire range of your whole army pretty much, bar flamers which I detest now, they wont do that much damage to your squads, Vehicles yes facing a drop pod heavy list is hard to get first blood on but the fact you get a free round of shooting plus being able to charge stright off counter acts that somewhat.

The drop pods are marine units that usually pay a premium for special weapons. There's a huge difference between 9 bolters and a melta hitting you from the blue to being assaulted by a squad of genestealers. The former your unit will take a few casualties (die if it's a tank and they roll well) but the latter is usually a dead unit. They felt that no-one likes having to deploy there and be able to do nothing except huddle in the middle from an onslaught of reserving combat people.

Assault takes away the opponents options, if you shoot them - they can respond by running away, shooting back or moving in to assault. Whilst getting the jump on people with shooting is strong it is not as overpoweringly one sided as combat because your opponent can fight back, whilst immediate assaults like from vanguard allow you to render your opponent unable to respond.

The exception of course is sternguard, who can drop pod and surgically combi weapon remove a part of your army... I hope this makes some kinda sense..

The Real,
Cute - Hydra

 cute-hydra wrote:

The drop pods are marine units that usually pay a premium for special weapons. There's a huge difference between 9 bolters and a melta hitting you from the blue to being assaulted by a squad of genestealers. The former your unit will take a few casualties (die if it's a tank and they roll well) but the latter is usually a dead unit. They felt that no-one likes having to deploy there and be able to do nothing except huddle in the middle from an onslaught of reserving combat people.

Assault takes away the opponents options, if you shoot them - they can respond by running away, shooting back or moving in to assault. Whilst getting the jump on people with shooting is strong it is not as overpoweringly one sided as combat because your opponent can fight back, whilst immediate assaults like from vanguard allow you to render your opponent unable to respond.

The exception of course is sternguard, who can drop pod and surgically combi weapon remove a part of your army... I hope this makes some kinda sense..

The Real,
Cute - Hydra

This.

There is a reason why the Forgeworld Lucius Pattern Drop Pods were so detested, even as mathhammer-types did their damn best to proof that they probably weren't that much out of balance all issues (and point costs considered). But they really hit this "unable to respond is no fun" zone in the worst possible way.

As a Necron player, laugh in the face off Drop-pod heavy armies. I usually have enough Necron Warriors or Necron Immortals around my vehicles so that a Drop Pods can't drop within melta range. So, those guys in the drop pod can shoot me yes, but then I can get back up. Once his turn is over, then I get to rapid fire with my entire army essentially. He will inflict some casualties on me, but will take far more himself with more expensive and less survivable troops. Not to mention if this is a kill point game, 5 drop pods more than likely means 10 points youre going to score. 10 points can easily win you the game.

I dislike droppods, more so in this edition.
They are another "marine armies don't need to bother with rules" concept.

I just laugh as the drop-pods come down into my warp quaked landing zone I made for them, and if thats not enough then Coteaz and his unit of plasma cannon servitors will have something nice to give them to.

I'm lucky in that my army is really good against drop-pods, and now more people are taking them, its a win for me

tuiman wrote:
I just laugh as the drop-pods come down into my warp quaked landing zone I made for them, and if thats not enough then Coteaz and his unit of plasma cannon servitors will have something nice to give them to.

I'm lucky in that my army is really good against drop-pods, and now more people are taking them, its a win for me

If your opponent is dumb enough to DS onto Warpquake than they deserve to lose. Coteaz can be a dampner sometimes but I've always managed to steer clear of him.

Besides warpquake doesn't do diddly if you don't go first.

Not really a win for you unless they're just bad to begin with.

I would have thought that using Overwatch and then being able to hit in the ensuing assault was more useful than just getting showered in bolter fire. Not that I'm saying I want a unit of Genestealers (or anyone) charging me from reserve!

For Necrons, drop pods aren't very good. If you field Nemesor Zahndrekh you can bring in your reserves on turn 1 with Phased Reinforcements. The only use I would see for drop pods is getting in melta range to blow up vehicles after that the likelihood of that unit staying alive is very slim and is a free kill point.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

tuiman wrote:
I just laugh as the drop-pods come down into my warp quaked landing zone I made for them, and if thats not enough then Coteaz and his unit of plasma cannon servitors will have something nice to give them to.

I'm lucky in that my army is really good against drop-pods, and now more people are taking them, its a win for me

If your opponent is dumb enough to DS onto Warpquake than they deserve to lose. Coteaz can be a dampner sometimes but I've always managed to steer clear of him.

Besides warpquake doesn't do diddly if you don't go first.

Not really a win for you unless they're just bad to begin with.

Yeah I know, but one of the main reasons for drop-pods, is to get close to the enemy, melta on tanks etc, if I have coteaz and henchman bubble wrapping my land-raider, or if I do get first turn and cover my deployment in warp quake, then you will have to be landing far away, out of melta and rapid fire range. Thats a win in my book.

I never had much problems with this, as I play Chaos Space Marines, Daemons and Orks. Anything that lands infront of me will die next turn in melee no question, and rarely make it's points back. And ofcourse in KP games Drop Pods tend to be instalose in my experience. Sure, sacrifice the first half of your army and put it in melee range, with a whole bunch of free KPs to boot. THAT will work.

But I can understand the frustration.. That being said, given that Drop Pods have the same limitation when it comes to assault, I would not really say they have a huge advantage. After all, you'll generally get a fairly expensive unit dropped in your lap that you WILL be killing next turn. So unless you are running a Land Raider, you really should not be at a huge loss. He gets a free shooting turn in your face, you get free shooting and charging. It's a valid trade, and he has to pay for the privilege.

Especially given that Deep Striking safely is now easier with premeasuring, I really dont see Drop Pods being that much more powerful. A chaos termicide unit is significantly cheaper than most drop pod setups, and does the same job, with a bit of extra risk.

 Sephyr wrote:

But if that's the reason, how come drop pods have not only not been nerfed as well, but actually buffed? Unlike outflankers, you know with a 100% certainty when half of them will land. In fact, they allow you to receive reserves in the first turn, something no other army has.

...Deathwing Assault?

More seriously, Drop Pods are a viable strategy. They are even an effective strategy. But they are pretty darned far from a foolproof no-skill instant-win strategy. First off, let's take a look at what you can put in a drop pod:

Sternguard. Tactical Marines. Jump-pack-less Assault Marines/Death Company/Vanguard Veterans. Dreadnaughts. Wolf Guard. Grey Hunters. Blood Claws.

If I recall correctly, you cannot assault on the turn you drop in, which means you're relying on your first turn of shooting to do a silly amount of damage before the enemy retaliates with literally everything in his entire army.

Tactical Marines are getting a few boltgun shots, one special weapon, and a snapfire heavy weapon. Jump-pack-less-ing Assault Marines/Death Company/Vanguard Veterans is almost never worth it. Grey Hunters are only marginally better, with access to a few more guns. Blood Claws are inefficient.

So, the only real problems are Dreadnaughts, Sternguard, and Wolf Guard, which have access to combi-weapons on every model in two cases and heavy weapons fireable on the move in the other. Unfortunately these are still T4/Sv3+ models in the cases of the silly number of combi-weapons, which means that yes, you may get ten melta/plasma/flamer shots and utterly shred one target, but the other guy dumps one plasma cannon into your midst or one battle cannon shell and you're history, which means you've just made a three-hundred-point suicide unit. Not the most efficient way to play your army. Dreadnaught-wise you could cause some trouble, given that it's a lot better-equipped to survive return fire, but you've still placed it in assault range of an army that hopefully includes at least a few power fists/biting blades/krak grenades/any of a whole host of things that make utter mincemeat of Dreadnaughts in close combat, so it's the same story. You drop, you ventilate one unit, you die.

That being said, it looks like the best counter to Drop Pods is any large-model-count army, since the enemy blowing up one squad barely matters to a gunline Guard force, for instance; with secondary 'best counter' credit going to any army with unholy close combat terrors that you just walked up to with open arms.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

Tactical Marines are getting a few boltgun shots, one special weapon, and a snapfire heavy weapon. Jump-pack-less-ing Assault Marines/Death Company/Vanguard Veterans is almost never worth it.

Did you see the new rage rules?

Death company are more than worth it nowadays. even in a Drop pod, when they drop across your lines and unleash 19 bolter/bolt pistol shots at a unit, and are free to assault a unit after you fail to kill them. they are tough sons a bitches.

So basically...taking drop pods is a bad idea most of the time? I've been mauled by a drop pod which simply had a tactical squad in...landed slap bang next on of my own tactical squads and it got wiped out!

Drop Pods are great because they let you control the initiative and force the opponent to take defensive measures. In effect you force the opponent to play differently than a standard game.

SM getting better stuff for cheaper, what's new. Drop Pods are cheaper than Mycetic Spores, come with a gun for free, come in on the first turn and can choose what they fire at (with a better BS).

 60mm wrote:
SM getting better stuff for cheaper, what's new. Drop Pods are cheaper than Mycetic Spores, come with a gun for free, come in on the first turn, inertial guidance and can choose what they fire at (with a better BS).

and they can not deny objectives or claim linebreaker like Mycetic Spores can.

It is not all upsides for the Drop pod. (Plus Mycetic Spores have a type of inertial guidance as well it is called Transport Spore).

Fair catch on the guidance but being able to guaranteed come in first turn is a huge benefit that isn't at all reflected in it's cost. The ability to drop a bunch of flamers right on someone's door before they've done squat for 35 points is pretty ridiculous. The nerf to assault out of reserves was done to prevent this exact scenario, but it's not surprising SM slip by it. I've seen many battles where a handful of Drop Pods come in first turn, first player and cripple the other army with the defender having zero options to deal with it but cross their fingers that their game didn't just get tanked. Spores also get a 2" deploy zone vs. the Pod's 6".

Then the person didnt deploy with any sense, or didnt bring a TAC list that considered the existence of drop pods

You can protect vehicles with troops - models disembarking still cannot move through your own models, to get within the 6" range.

If they have flamers, then sread the feth out. Its not difficult. Or only leave one area they can drop, remembering that their mobility is then heavily reduced once they drop in....

Nids do damn well against drop pod armies - theyre fast enough to swamp the units the next turn, and 10 marines are not difficult to kill

One unit missed along the way is Drop Pods full of Wolf Guard Terminators.

Give each of them a combi and the right mix of power weapons and not only do you inflict a lot of pain when you land, but you survive the counter fire and get in a counter attack on the ensuing rush if you were smart enough to land 2 or 3 Pods of them. Have a wolf priest for the preferred enemy buff, a Rune priest for a close range Jaws of the World Wolf through the thickest part of the enemy army or Arjac for character mauling in there with them and you can do some really serious damage and hang in for the reinforcements.