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I am a unit of Lootas (15) distributed as follows: 9 on top. 4 on 2nd floor. 2 on first floor.

Bastion is being charged by a deathstar unit of Space Wolves.

Do my lootas get to snap fire or just the bastion. or just the ground floor or what?

DrG

Noone, as the bastion is not a trasnsport vehicle.

If that's all one unit you can't have some inside and some outside. The unit must be either in or out.

Unless I'm missing something.

rigeld2 wrote:
If that's all one unit you can't have some inside and some outside. The unit must be either in or out.

Unless I'm missing something.

Agreed. That's my take on it as well.

Still doesnt alter that, even with everyone inside, you couldnt overwatch

If you are playing it just as terrain (not a fortification) yes you can overwatch with any lootas that can draw LoS to the charging unit.

Then the quesiton wouldnt have been "charging the bastion", as you would be charging the lootas....

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still doesnt alter that, even with everyone inside, you couldnt overwatch

Right, you answered correctly, just figured it was worth pointing out.

We played as the following:

I had 15 lootas:
-Battlements (roof): 9
-2nd Floor: 4
-1st Floor: 2

He charged with a Space Wolf Cavalry Death Star

per GW FAQ:
Q. If a fortification you are in is charged, are your units occupying it allowed to make Overwatch shots against the assaulters from any Fire Points in the same manner as an occupied Transport? (p80/97)

A: Yes. Note, however, that models defending a fortification’s
battlements may not fire Overwatch in this situation, as they do not count as embarked inside the fortification.

Therfore, 6 Lootas plus the heavy bolter overwatched and Snapfired. Missed everything. He got 7 penetrating hits combining to a total of 18d6 wounds - this includes 4 total collapse results. I just killed all the lootas...

Just thought you guys would want a follow up since your discussion came to a mistaken conclusion.

DrG

 doktor_g wrote:

I had 15 lootas:
-Battlements (roof): 9
-2nd Floor: 4
-1st Floor: 2

Glad you got the other question answered, but this still isn't legal. They all have to be in the same place.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 doktor_g wrote:

I had 15 lootas:
-Battlements (roof): 9
-2nd Floor: 4
-1st Floor: 2

Glad you got the other question answered, but this still isn't legal. They all have to be in the same place.

Yup, if you are playing it as a building they are exactly as a transport your unit is either inside of it or outside, if inside they just as with vehicles they can shoot through fire points, and the enemy unit can't charge the unit just like you can't charge the insides of a vehicle.

Glad you got the other question answered, but this still isn't legal. They all have to be in the same place.

I don't think this is correct. You may occupy 2 parts of a multipart building with a single unit. If you think that is incorrect can you give me a page number?

I did discover another mistake in what we did though. The Heavy Bolters (emplaced weapons in an occupied fort) CANNOT fire overwatch. Per GW FAQ. So we should've just let the 6 lootas inside fire.

Thanks,
G

Looks like you weren't fighting on a bastion...

This is a bastion:

Yes it was a bastion. No quad gun or las cannon though.

The Bastion isn't a multipart building . It is as stated before treated as a single vehicle.

But on the same topic if you had a multipart building like the DA fortress of redemption it still states that units must occupy one part of the building you can't have them spread across the building, so again the unit would be inside a section and you are allowed to enter another section with a different unit, or even an enemy unit might get inside it and then charge from that section to yours

This is a multipart building:



2 bunkers on the sides, 1 tower in the middle and 1 walkway, each of these is considered a separate building. In this case you could deploy your lootas in say the right bunker but all of them are considered to be inside, you cant have half on the bunker and half on the walkway.

 doktor_g wrote:
Yes it was a bastion. No quad gun or las cannon though.

Hmm you should read the parts that says treat it like a vehicle.

The inside part being like a "transport"

Can you stick 10 boyz in a truck and 10 boyz outside from 1 squad?

rigeld2 wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still doesnt alter that, even with everyone inside, you couldnt overwatch

Right, you answered correctly, just figured it was worth pointing out.

I'm missing where it restricts you the overwatch. The only time i see it being restricted is if you get assaulted from a neighbor building on a multipart building. Otherwise nothing restricts you from overwatching just as like you wound from any other transport.

I'm sorry Lord Yayula a Bastion IS, in fact, a multipart building. Page 92 governs the rule on Battlements. Top left paragraph (Bolded). "A building with battlements is a multipart building." This is supported by the GW FAQ.

Again, if you have a page number to reference a unit not being able to be in two parts of a multipart building I'd like to see it.

The reason this is important to me is because, being an Ork player, I often have units of 30. If that's the case A mob can't completely occupy a building unless it's 12"x12" per page 92. But often times a mob will be partially within the building. As such, I don't see the difference between being "partially in a building" and being in "2 parts of a big multipart building."

So again a page reference saying it's illegal would be helpful. Until then I just can't accept the argument.

Respectfully,
DrG

GW FAQ:

Q. If so, do battlements count as a separate building, or is the
bastion a multi-part building? (p95)
A: Battlements are treated as being separate from the
building itself, simply acting as cover for any models on top
of the building in question – see the rules for battlements on
page 95.

 doktor_g wrote:
I'm sorry Lord Yayula a Bastion IS, in fact, a multipart building. Page 92 governs the rule on Battlements. Top left paragraph (Bolded). "A building with battlements is a multipart building." This is supported by the GW FAQ.

True, didn't read the battlements, but it still on that same paragraph states: "essentially, one unit can go inside the building, and a different unit can be 'on top' of it"

so... if you have 1 unit of lootas it has to be either inside or on top

No the rule says you can have a unit on top and a unit within.

My question (new question) is: "Can a single unit be in multiple parts of a multi part building?" That is, on the roof (battlements) and within it?

I'm looking for a rule prohibiting it and I can't find one...

There isn't because you are never allowed to split your units. It's like looking for a rule prohibiting my troops from benefiting from smash, there is no rule saying "chaos space marines can't benefit from smash rule", therefore all my marines got smash

I see your point.

Jeffersonian vs Madisonian interpretation.

Nevertheless. I disagree. )

I would like to have some other opinions weigh in?

Or actually I'll start a poll...

Thanks for your help Lord!

You are told to embark. Where in the rules for embark does it allow you to have some models embark and not others? It doesnt - it states the entire unit must embark

There's literally no difference between a bastion and a truck. You cannot embark a unit into the bastion/truck and have part of the unit elsewhere. The entire unit must be either embarked or not. And the FAQ says that a unit on the battlements is not embarked.

 doktor_g wrote:
I see your point.

Jeffersonian vs Madisonian interpretation.

Nevertheless. I disagree. )

I would like to have some other opinions weigh in?

Or actually I'll start a poll...

Thanks for your help Lord!

Can you find the rule that says I can't leave 5 men in the rhino and have 5 men run behind it?

Can you find me the rule that says I can't kick you in the nuts?

If you try and find rules on what you can't do, you'll be disappointed. The rules tell you what you can do, not what you cannot do.

-Matt

You can't have a 15 strong unit of lootas spread accross multiple parts.

They all have to be in the building(or a particular section if a multi-part building) or on its Battlements.

 doktor_g wrote:
Again, if you have a page number to reference a unit not being able to be in two parts of a multipart building I'd like to see it.

The bigger problem is that GW are a little confused as to whether or not the bastion is a multiple part building. It should be, as the rules for Battlements say that's how it works... which means that the battlements are essentially treated as a separatre building in their own right.

Except that the FAQ entry after the one you quoted says that battlements have no armour value because they arent a building. So the Bastion is apparently a multiple part building made up of one building and one... er... not-building.

Exactly how that's supposed to work is anybody's guess.

The battlements can only be accessed by the unit inside the bastion if they disembark onto the battlements. A unit cannot partially disembark, therefore they are either all inside, or all on the battlements. If they're all on the battlements, they all have to be able to fit.