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New research http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2227705/The-British-coming-Over-centuries-weve-invaded-staggering-90-worlds-nations.html

shows that Britian once took tourism to a new level. This has sparked a storm in the UK with left-wing newspapers decrying the evils of imperialism, whilst right wing newspapers lauding the empire for building the modern world. What do dakka members think? Given that we have had Roman, Greek, Aztec, Inca, Mongolian, German, Japanese, Byzantine empires etc etc, should the British led the way in apologising, or is this unnecessary guilt?

Anyway, here is a list of countries never invaded by Britian:

Andorra
Belarus
Bolivia
Burundi
Central African Republic
Chad
Congo
Guatemala
Ivory Coast
Krygyzstan
Liechtenstein
Luxembourg
Mali
Marshall Islands
Monaco
Mongolia (who would dare
Paraguay
Sao Tome
Sweden (well the UK loves Abba and IKEA)
Tajikistan
Uzbekistan
Vatican City

Yes, ofcourse.
By the way, the British always seem to forget the Dutch actually did a small invasion in Britain.

Nope.

Not until the US apologizes for all the things it's done.

I haven't forgotten. Besides, that was in the 1660s before Great Britian was formed, so it doesn't count

As a general rule, I don't think countries should apologize for things that happened >100 years ago.

There are some exceptions, such as perhaps apologizing for a genocide or some such; but invading other countries is simply the human condition writ large.

Ouze, I agree with you, but this idea of an apology is getting legs in the UK. Crazy, I know, and I speak as somebody who has recent ancestors that were treated badly by the British.

No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

 kronk wrote:
No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

Yeah, why did they stop making music?

As to this idea of apologizing... What the hell? No! They shouldn't have to apologize for something that happened more than 250 years ago... The US demands an apology...

We should apologise for things done in the past century, before that it's a bit hollow.

I'm not exactly sat around waiting for an apology from Rome.

Absolutely not.

Sure they should.
And Norway should apologize to the Catholic church for the viking raids on its monks.
And Italy should apologize to Tunisia for the sack of Carthage
And Turkey should apologize to the Greeks for conquering Constantinople.
And the descendants of the Huns should apologize to the descendants of the Vandals.
And we ought to make Italy, France and Spain apologize to Romania for the Dacian Wars, but only after we make North Africa apologize to Spain and France for the Moorish invasions.

 kronk wrote:
They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

What's wrong with the Spice Girls? What exactly is it you want England to do? Tell me what you want - what you really really want.

This is such a bizarre thing. Many of the countries weren't even countries at the time, or were radically different, either in government structure and/or geographic boundaries.

 Ouze wrote:
[
What's wrong with the Spice Girls? What exactly is it you want England to do? Tell me what you want - what you really really want.

Don't start singing spice girls, just stop. Stop, right now, thank you very much.

I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want all right!

 Ouze wrote:

 kronk wrote:
They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

What's wrong with the Spice Girls? What exactly is it you want England to do? Tell me what you want - what you really really want.

It also isn't that difficult of an explanation. It was five pretty girls doing middle of the road pop music to sell merchandise, and it worked, albeit it had a really short shelf life, much like most pop music.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
lauding the empire for building the modern world.

I'm inclined towards this opinion.

 kronk wrote:
No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

What, tell me what you want what you really really want
I would like some pizza and a glass of dark rum



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

Well we did give them Madonna with a bad fake British accent. It all evens out.

Why should they apologise?

Without the British Empire, civilization would not have spread everywhere it did. And the world would be very different.

China and India would be backwards countries from a technological standpoint. Which would probably mean Soviet Russia would have invaded and taken over most of Asia.

Almost the entire New World would still be part of the Spanish Empire. An empire built on the exploitation of natural resources and natives with Grimdarkness approaching 40k.


The world basically is divided between the Spanish Empire and Soviet Russia. The Spanish Empire takes the place of the US in defeating Nazi germany, however they are more akin to having a second USSR. One is an Absolute Monarchy, the other is a Totalitarian Dictatorship.

So Europe is divided between them after the end of WW2.


Either Spain defeats Japan in the east and expands in that arena, or Japan is able to maintain their holdings. Not sure which would happen.

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

Well we did give them Madonna with a bad fake British accent. It all evens out.

Ah. Well spotted, then.

 Frazzled wrote:

 kronk wrote:
No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

What, tell me what you want what you really really want
I would like some pizza and a glass of dark rum



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

Well we did give them Madonna with a bad fake British accent. It all evens out.

2 words: Girls Aloud.

 Frazzled wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kronk wrote:
No, they shouldn't apologize.

They do owe us an explanation for the Spice Girls, though.

Well we did give them Madonna with a bad fake British accent. It all evens out.

And we gave them Justin Bieber. No fake British accent though, nothing poetic, just pure malice.

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Nope.

Not until the US apologizes for all the things it's done.

Last I checked, the US hasn't commited genocide on the scale to which was commited in Africa. We didn't pick up a small continent to use as a prison colony. And finally we weren't heavily involved in the european wang contest that was the Age of Imperialisim.

 Grey Templar wrote:

The world basically is divided between the Spanish Empire and Soviet Russia. The Spanish Empire takes the place of the US in defeating Nazi germany, however they are more akin to having a second USSR. One is an Absolute Monarchy, the other is a Totalitarian Dictatorship.

The Spanish civil war would have kept them out of WW2 had it still happened. The outcome would have had much greater consequences too.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Squigsquasher wrote:
Nope.

Not until the US apologizes for all the things it's done.

Last I checked, the US hasn't commited genocide on the scale to which was commited in Africa. We didn't pick up a small continent to use as a prison colony. And finally we weren't heavily involved in the european wang contest that was the Age of Imperialisim.

Guantanamo Bay.
Blowing up Dutch dikes. The wretches!

 Grey Templar wrote:
We didn't pick up a small continent to use as a prison colony.

Just a bit of Cuba.

ninja'd

Ultimately all this is just a big

"Sorry world that historical documents tell us that 300 years ago (although the first case in this guy's book comes from the 2nd century so we could be talking 1900 years ago) people who live in the same region as I invaded people who live in the same region as you."

I would hardly compare Guantanamo to Australia.

We keep the worst of the worst in Guantanamo. Australia was where you shipped the bread thieves and purse snatchers

And 45 square miles compared to almost 3 million square miles

There might be a few things worth apologizing for, and a lot that isn't, but it would need to be done on a case by case basis and not some overly broad apology. Even then it is doubtful that there would be much apologized for.

Even with all the jacked up gak the US has done I can only think of one or two things that probably deserve an outright apology.

I've never been a big fan of the rationalization 'sure we exploited your people, killed your people, and ravaged your resources but we brought you civilization man. You should be thanking us, really". While the White Man's Burden was used as a justification it was never really about civilizing people, it was about money, power, and land. I don't have a problem with the expansion and conquering and all that, as it was par for the course and Britain was the best at it.

In the US I think we owe an apology to the Native groups not for the conquering, which was fair and square, but for the breaking of so many treaties. Winning a war or conflict was one thing, but the other was us being a bunch of lying douche bags. We even screwed allies that fought with us. The Indians would probably not have been as bitter if we had just won the war, and not broken every treaty we made with them and ignored many of our own laws in doing so.

 Grey Templar wrote:

We keep the worst of the worst in Guantanamo. Australia was where you shipped the bread thieves and purse snatchers

As well as all kinds of people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time.