Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Executioner w/ HM lascannon
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ HM Lascannon

this comes out to 535 points which might seem like a lot considering all of that firepower has to be aimed at one target but what makes this squadron really dangerous is adding a Librarian with divination to it. Not all of the shots have to be placed at the same point of a unit so you aim these guns at a heavily populated area and then hope for a few good scatters. It can kill pretty much everything. You advance the whole group firing the executioner, battle cannon, and the 2 lascannons all twin linked until you are in range for the demolisher cannon. You will force your opponent to divide his forces if you run this monster up the middle.

And I can Draw a str 10 ap 1 line across all three of them, and blow them up in one go with a 175 point flyer.

Meanwhile I camp cover, and wait

Not a bad idea, but not unstoppable.
I'd get rid of the demolisher, keep the range, keeps you safer from melta/gauss/other tanks/ect

I think investing so many points into a single squadron in this edition is the wrong way to go about it.

If your opponent does split up his forces a bit, than you should really kill the one thing you shoot at.

Divinination twin links it IIRC, and you can't re-roll a hit IIRC

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:
I think investing so many points into a single squadron in this edition is the wrong way to go about it.

If your opponent does split up his forces a bit, than you should really kill the one thing you shoot at.

Divinination twin links it IIRC, and you can't re-roll a hit IIRC

Thats why you hope it scatters you put it on the edge of a tank near troop and hope to get a favorable scatter.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 iGuy91 wrote:
And I can Draw a str 10 ap 1 line across all three of them, and blow them up in one go with a 175 point flyer.

Meanwhile I camp cover, and wait

Not a bad idea, but not unstoppable.
I'd get rid of the demolisher, keep the range, keeps you safer from melta/gauss/other tanks/ect

Necrons are scum lol. Luckily my gaming group isn't very Necron heavy. Necrons will kill most armour thats why I have went to foot armies with my Dark Angels, Tau, Grey Knights and Space Wolves. Not to concerned with other tanks armour 14 is pretty tough to crack an if one gets hurt a bit another takes over as lead tank.

Very little is unstoppable in this game but I am digging the amount of firepower and the versatility this group has. The key is the added rerolls from the Librarian I wouldn't trust this many points with BS3 without it.

My main issue is probably maneuverability. Depending on terrain, moving a squadron of two Leman Russes to ensure their precious shots aren't being wasted is a problem I have constantly, using three will only wind up that bit harder - and with a Demolisher in there there is no choice to sit back and fire from long range, you're going to need to be further up the board to use it.

The Str 10 AP1 line isn't the problem you think, as I assume you're not going to put them in a straight line asking to be destroyed - following the maths you're likely to only lose one depending on how they're lined up. But anti-tank stuff is a problem to consider, a squad with a couple of meltas could do some serious wrecking.

The big advantage I've found with Russes is that they seem to scare opponents into throwing fire at it and ignoring my other units. I could see a well balanced list incorperating this and giving your opponent some trouble, so it might be worth a try.

 daveymcshirra wrote:


The Str 10 AP1 line isn't the problem you think, as I assume you're not going to put them in a straight line asking to be destroyed - following the maths you're likely to only lose one depending on how they're lined up. But anti-tank stuff is a problem to consider, a squad with a couple of meltas could do some serious wrecking.

Depends on how it's deployed as they're a squadron they must maintain a 4" coherence.

So for example if I was drop podding in a BA Libby with the line of doom he can hit them all assuming the line is long enough.

 daveymcshirra wrote:
My main issue is probably maneuverability. Depending on terrain, moving a squadron of two Leman Russes to ensure their precious shots aren't being wasted is a problem I have constantly, using three will only wind up that bit harder - and with a Demolisher in there there is no choice to sit back and fire from long range, you're going to need to be further up the board to use it.

The Str 10 AP1 line isn't the problem you think, as I assume you're not going to put them in a straight line asking to be destroyed - following the maths you're likely to only lose one depending on how they're lined up. But anti-tank stuff is a problem to consider, a squad with a couple of meltas could do some serious wrecking.

The big advantage I've found with Russes is that they seem to scare opponents into throwing fire at it and ignoring my other units. I could see a well balanced list incorperating this and giving your opponent some trouble, so it might be worth a try.

Your last comment is what I am aiming for will run this squadron with Deathwing, imagine TH/SS terminators leading the charge or holding the flanks. They will be between a rock a hard place.

twin linking blasts let you reroll if the -scatter dice- does not roll a hit. as in, the little reticulated on the scatter die, or BS ruduction. That's a hit as defined by the scatter rules. Just having the template over a model is not a 'hit'.
Having it scatter is missing. Having it land on target (either through rolling a reticule on the scatterdie, or negating the scatter through BS reduction) is a hit.

So if it scatters, but still hits 2 models, you can choose to reroll it with twin link.

 McGibs wrote:
twin linking blasts let you reroll if the -scatter dice- does not roll a hit. as in, the little reticulated on the scatter die, or BS ruduction. That's a hit as defined by the scatter rules. Just having the template over a model is not a 'hit'.
Having it scatter is missing. Having it land on target (either through rolling a reticule on the scatterdie, or negating the scatter through BS reduction) is a hit.

So if it scatters, but still hits 2 models, you can choose to reroll it with twin link.

Thats some hardcore rule lawyering there. I dunno if I would wanna run it that way the unit is what is targeted just because it scatters and catches a different model in the unit doesn't mean its a miss.

valace2 wrote:and then hope

These are the opportune words of the OP.

You have a ludicrously expensive squad that, at absolute best, is realistically only killing a single squad per turn, but it can't even necessarily do it all that well. You're either needlessly risking the LRBT by moving it into enemy melta range, or you're not going to have anything in range for the demolisher. You're either shooting at infantry, which is a waste of your very expensive executioner most of the time, or you're shooting it at tanks, which wastes both the executioner and the LRBT. Plus, nothing ignores cover, and only one of the shots IDs T5, which means you're probably not even doing as much damage as you think, much less damage per point.

And, as mentioned, there are hard, hard counters. A death ray is the obvious choice (especially onerous as this tank squad can't even target fliers), but there are others as well. I mean, you're looking at a single combi-melta sternguard squad from the whole squad going up in flamers. Likewise, a squad of nob bikers with klaws only needs to be able to reach one of the tanks in close combat in order to be able to throw all three off the table. Or you come up against Mephiston, and he eats the squad's face off, or some thunder hammer termies, or some haywire spam, etc. etc.

Basically, this squad suffers from the problem that ogryn have (being expensive, not necessarily doing THAT much damage, and having sufficient hard counters), without some of the benefits of ogryn (like creaming fliers and being good in close combat).

I'd pass, honestly. If you want to make a tank squad, make them the same tank and be done with it.

 Ailaros wrote:

valace2 wrote:and then hope

These are the opportune words of the OP.

You have a ludicrously expensive squad that, at absolute best, is realistically only killing a single squad per turn, but it can't even necessarily do it all that well. You're either needlessly risking the LRBT by moving it into enemy melta range, or you're not going to have anything in range for the demolisher. You're either shooting at infantry, which is a waste of your very expensive executioner most of the time, or you're shooting it at tanks, which wastes both the executioner and the LRBT. Plus, nothing ignores cover, and only one of the shots IDs T5, which means you're probably not even doing as much damage as you think, much less damage per point.

And, as mentioned, there are hard, hard counters. A death ray is the obvious choice (especially onerous as this tank squad can't even target fliers), but there are others as well. I mean, you're looking at a single combi-melta sternguard squad from the whole squad going up in flamers. Likewise, a squad of nob bikers with klaws only needs to be able to reach one of the tanks in close combat in order to be able to throw all three off the table. Or you come up against Mephiston, and he eats the squad's face off, or some thunder hammer termies, or some haywire spam, etc. etc.

Basically, this squad suffers from the problem that ogryn have (being expensive, not necessarily doing THAT much damage, and having sufficient hard counters), without some of the benefits of ogryn (like creaming fliers and being good in close combat).

I'd pass, honestly. If you want to make a tank squad, make them the same tank and be done with it.

Umm why is shooting at infantry a waste of the Executioners shots? What else is the Executioner going to kill reliably? At best it can glance armour 13 I think you have your tanks confused. An I don't plan on getting my tanks within 6 inches of a melta gun so at best a melta gun can do is glance them to death. I have only seen Mephiston run in a game once, and I mindstrike missiled him to death. Nob Bikers have to make it through Thunderhammer Storm Shield Terminators so yea the bikers are out an by the time they close enough the Demolisher will plate them to death.

It can reliable kill large chucks of infantry at long range has 2 TL lascannons to shoot at heavier armour can kill terminators thanks to the the AP2 shots from the Executioner, and at 24" can cut open a Land Raider pretty reliably. Yes this squad can only fire at one target but that target will be ash at the end of the turn even if it is in cover.

Yes the dreaded Death Ray can cut them open but using that logic might as well never run armour again.

When ifs and buts are candy and nuts...
I forget how the rest of that goes. OPs tactic relies on those two little words.

valace2 487396 4952166 wrote:Umm why is shooting at infantry a waste of the Executioners shots?

Against terminators it's doing a neat job, same as against another small range of stuff.

Against any horde army, though, they're just going to laugh as that 200 point tank manages to hit only a few models per turn. Likewise, anything in cover, especially if they're spread across a couple of levels of ruins is really, really not going to care about an executioner. In a world of 2" coherence, a 1.5" blast template is rather avoidable.

Of course, this is all part of people overestimating executioners more than a specific problem to this squad setup, but still...

What is the size of your army , 500+pts for one squad in like a 1000pt is a pretty big sink.

Now that we get multiple force orgs at 2000 points+, this seems a big sink at any level.

Rule #1 of tank squadrons: never mix tank types within a squadron. Since you can only fire at one target with the whole unit you're just going to have some tanks unable to shoot effectively since their weapons aren't intended for that target type/range. Instead, if you're going to use a squadron at all, they should all be exactly the same.

You can shuffle your squadron in a difficult terrain, hoping to fail a DT test. When you do, that tank becomes immobilised and is then its own unit and it can shoot other targets than the rest.

Polecat wrote:
You can shuffle your squadron in a difficult terrain, hoping to fail a DT test. When you do, that tank becomes immobilised and is then its own unit and it can shoot other targets than the rest.

And then you lose a hull point for doing it. This wasn't a terrible idea before the FAQ, but now it's just stupid.

Try 3 bare Leman Russ Battle Tanks. The hullmounted Lascannon is a waste on any ordance firing Russ, as it can only ever snap shot if you are firing the main cannon. Lumber Behometh is just Heavy now.

3 bare Russes is a bargain, it should kill everything short of AV14 (and maybe it will!), and you can spread 'wounds' around easily by shifting the damaged tank to the back the next turn, effectively making the opponent chew through all 9 of your hull points before they are dead. Keep your front facing the opponent and keep your rear/sides bubble wrapped so you can range out the melta/drop/deep strike shenanigans and just win!

Plus, the 3 Russ set up is one HVY slot, leaving you room to add in a single executioner all tooled up and then a Manticore or Hydra.

 Griddlelol wrote:
When ifs and buts are candy and nuts...
I forget how the rest of that goes. OPs tactic relies on those two little words.

...we'd all have a merry Christmas.

I wouldnt run this. There are times where the dice gods will hate you and everything will scatter and then that 500pt tank squad that couldnt kill that rhino or small bunche dup terminator unit then makes you feel stupid. I would be best to take the squadron with all the tanks being the same as the LRBT is better at range and the demolisher is better close up. Your executioner excels at killing 2+armor saves and so does the demo but the LRBT doesnt. The demo is good at killing tanks the LRBT isnt to great as the AV increases. And the executioner isnt much better. You want your tanks to specialize in a roll and then the different squads and troops and units all work together to take down their weaknesses. If you run veterans are you gunna run a plasma for 2+ armor, a melta gun for tanks, and a flamer for hordes...no you are running all plasma,all melta, or all flamers. You use that for just about everything in the guard.

I dont take demolishers anymore. In the event that you run into necrons, or a melta heavy list, itll only get one shot before its turned to slag. The executioner is a better TEQ killer.

The executioner will be able to hand a squad of TEQ on its own, and doesnt need to be squadroned (unless with another executioner).

LRBT are best left at the back lines lobbing shots across the table, not up front with the more close range tanks like the demolisher/executioner.

Squadroning vehicles is a bad idea, unless you need the extra HVY slots. As stated before, the firepower can be overkill, and wasted, or one round of assault will be the doom of the entire squadron.

This is what I would run with that squadron, I am not putting them in the squadron by choice...

Belial w/ TH/SS 130pts

Librarian 120pts

5x Terminators w/ Apothecary 5x TH/SS an CML 265pts
5x Terminators w 5x TH/SS and CML 235pts
5x Terminators w 4x TH/SS and Assault Cannon 245pts

CCS w/ camo cloaks, Vox Lascannon, an 2x sniper rifles 100pts

10x Veterans w/ Forward Sentries, Vox, Lascannon an 3x Sniper Rifles 140pts
10x Veterans w/ 2x Melta Guns 100pts

Vendetta 130pts

Leman Russ Squadron 520pts
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Executioner w/ HM lascannon
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ HM Lascannon

The lascannon is on the demolisher until it gets in range. Would you just swap it for 3 regular russ'? You would save a whole 70pts by going with the regular LRBT. but you would lose the str10 shot as well as the 3 plasma blasts all of which are at ap2.

If anything maybe I could drop the Demolisher and add a Dark Angel Vindicator.

valace2 wrote:
This is what I would run with that squadron, I am not putting them in the squadron by choice...

Belial w/ TH/SS 130pts

Librarian 120pts

5x Terminators w/ Apothecary 5x TH/SS an CML 265pts
5x Terminators w 5x TH/SS and CML 235pts
5x Terminators w 4x TH/SS and Assault Cannon 245pts

CCS w/ camo cloaks, Vox Lascannon, an 2x sniper rifles 100pts

10x Veterans w/ Forward Sentries, Vox, Lascannon an 3x Sniper Rifles 140pts
10x Veterans w/ 2x Melta Guns 100pts

Vendetta 130pts

Leman Russ Squadron 520pts
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Leman Russ Executioner w/ HM lascannon
Leman Russ Demolisher w/ HM Lascannon

The lascannon is on the demolisher until it gets in range. Would you just swap it for 3 regular russ'? You would save a whole 70pts by going with the regular LRBT. but you would lose the str10 shot as well as the 3 plasma blasts all of which are at ap2.

That's a 520 pt squad that can shoot at one thing, guy. That's overkill.

Like I said I could remove the Demolisher and leave the other two in more of a long range support role but I like the idea of having them come in behind the Terminators.

As far as overkill goes off often in this game can you say something is a guaranteed kill? Take in mind the Librarian is going to be with this squadron the whole game.

With points, you want less killing more, not more killing less. It's a matter of efficiency.

Yes. you will blow the living crap out of any squad which is in the way. Congratulations. You used 500+ points of firepower to remove a 200 point squad from the board.
You may have removed his models, but the remaining 300 points of firepower is wasted, and you'll actually find that you have less firepower with the more tanks you bunch in a squadron.

So, less is more. pick one tank and then use the hundreds of free points you will have for something else.

Pick one tank. I'd take the demolisher, myself, as It would be great to just roll that thing behind some terminators and go nuts.

valace2 wrote:
Like I said I could remove the Demolisher and leave the other two in more of a long range support role but I like the idea of having them come in behind the Terminators.

As far as overkill goes off often in this game can you say something is a guaranteed kill? Take in mind the Librarian is going to be with this squadron the whole game.

So now its a 600+ point death star?! Geez, that is not scary. Walking cheap melta-squads at it will mean you HAVE to shoot them or risk loosing those 500+ points which essentially nullifies the concept.

 Griddlelol wrote:

valace2 wrote:
Like I said I could remove the Demolisher and leave the other two in more of a long range support role but I like the idea of having them come in behind the Terminators.

As far as overkill goes off often in this game can you say something is a guaranteed kill? Take in mind the Librarian is going to be with this squadron the whole game.

So now its a 600+ point death star?! Geez, that is not scary. Walking cheap melta-squads at it will mean you HAVE to shoot them or risk loosing those 500+ points which essentially nullifies the concept.

Cheap Melta squads that have to get through 15 TH/SS Terminators.

How would you change it?

I could make the IG Primary but then I only have 2 scoring units of terminators that can go out an contest. I could add a second Vendetta and split the tanks up, but then I only have 2 reliable scoring units.

Does it have to be all shooting anymore? I like the rerolls for the tanks and I really like having three hardcore scoring terminator units. I could cut 2 of the LRBTS and then add Vindicators but then I sacrifice a lot of range, and they are less durable. Sucks that DA devastators are so darn expensive.