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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:08:52
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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whembly wrote:
This is my soapbox... We do not have the highest mortality rate amongst children... we have the highest RECORDED rate and no one else collects this data like we do.
Care to explain this please?
Every country in Europe, for instance (and a whole lot of other countries do it as well, basically only in really backward countries without a widespread health care network are you unable to access accurate numbers, but those countries also have much higher numbers than developed nations), collects this type of data for analysis, so how are you saying that the no one else does it "right" except for the US?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:10:24
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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PhantomViper wrote: whembly wrote:
This is my soapbox... We do not have the highest mortality rate amongst children... we have the highest RECORDED rate and no one else collects this data like we do.
Care to explain this please?
Every country in Europe, for instance (and a whole lot of other countries do it as well, basically only in really backward countries without a widespread health care network are you unable to access accurate numbers, but those countries also have much higher numbers than developed nations), collects this type of data for analysis, so how are you saying that the no one else does it "right" except for the US?
Every nation collects different statistics. There is no common definition of "infant mortality."
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:12:11
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Kilkrazy wrote:All first world countries such as the USA, Japan, UK, and France, collect epidemiological data to a satisfactory standard to enable useful information to be developed.
Not true...
I'll have to find the explanation, but the methodology IS different. I remember hearing about a huge controversy about some survey (UN, WHO, ??) on infant mortality and numerous big Children's Hospital in the US actually had a PR campaign to counter that assumption.
Neonatal (preemies) deaths aren't counted in other countries, but they are in the US. That's just one example. Automatically Appended Next Post: Frazzled wrote:PhantomViper wrote: whembly wrote:
This is my soapbox... We do not have the highest mortality rate amongst children... we have the highest RECORDED rate and no one else collects this data like we do.
Care to explain this please?
Every country in Europe, for instance (and a whole lot of other countries do it as well, basically only in really backward countries without a widespread health care network are you unable to access accurate numbers, but those countries also have much higher numbers than developed nations), collects this type of data for analysis, so how are you saying that the no one else does it "right" except for the US?
Every nation collects different statistics. There is no common definition of "infant mortality."
That's my point.... Thanks Fraz.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 16:13:03
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:15:36
Subject: Re:OBAMA 2012
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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So instead of addressing the issue you (you as a nation, not you in particular), just deny the numbers... that is a way to do it I guess...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:19:46
Subject: Re:OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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PhantomViper wrote:So instead of addressing the issue you (you as a nation, not you in particular), just deny the numbers... that is a way to do it I guess...
No.. stop being dense here.
Just acknowledge that the "data collection" method can be different between nations (and even within the country). So much that you cannot really do any "apples-to-apples" comparison between countries.
You have to understand, we're incredibly aggressive in treating kids.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:20:37
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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whembly wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:All first world countries such as the USA, Japan, UK, and France, collect epidemiological data to a satisfactory standard to enable useful information to be developed.
Not true...
I'll have to find the explanation, but the methodology IS different. I remember hearing about a huge controversy about some survey (UN, WHO, ??) on infant mortality and numerous big Children's Hospital in the US actually had a PR campaign to counter that assumption.
Neonatal (preemies) deaths aren't counted in other countries, but they are in the US. That's just one example.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:PhantomViper wrote: whembly wrote:
This is my soapbox... We do not have the highest mortality rate amongst children... we have the highest RECORDED rate and no one else collects this data like we do.
Care to explain this please?
Every country in Europe, for instance (and a whole lot of other countries do it as well, basically only in really backward countries without a widespread health care network are you unable to access accurate numbers, but those countries also have much higher numbers than developed nations), collects this type of data for analysis, so how are you saying that the no one else does it "right" except for the US?
Every nation collects different statistics. There is no common definition of "infant mortality."
That's my point.... Thanks Fraz.
Well, there is actually, it is defined by the World Health Organisation.
http://www.who.int/social_determinants/thecommission/finalreport/key_concepts/en/
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:20:54
Subject: Re:OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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PhantomViper wrote:So instead of addressing the issue you (you as a nation, not you in particular), just deny the numbers... that is a way to do it I guess...
We're not denying "the numbers." We're saying our "numbers" are different than your "numbers."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Kilkrazy wrote: whembly wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:All first world countries such as the USA, Japan, UK, and France, collect epidemiological data to a satisfactory standard to enable useful information to be developed.
Not true...
I'll have to find the explanation, but the methodology IS different. I remember hearing about a huge controversy about some survey (UN, WHO, ??) on infant mortality and numerous big Children's Hospital in the US actually had a PR campaign to counter that assumption.
Neonatal (preemies) deaths aren't counted in other countries, but they are in the US. That's just one example.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Frazzled wrote:PhantomViper wrote: whembly wrote:
This is my soapbox... We do not have the highest mortality rate amongst children... we have the highest RECORDED rate and no one else collects this data like we do.
Care to explain this please?
Every country in Europe, for instance (and a whole lot of other countries do it as well, basically only in really backward countries without a widespread health care network are you unable to access accurate numbers, but those countries also have much higher numbers than developed nations), collects this type of data for analysis, so how are you saying that the no one else does it "right" except for the US?
Every nation collects different statistics. There is no common definition of "infant mortality."
That's my point.... Thanks Fraz.
Well, there is actually, it is defined by the World Health Organisation.
http://www.who.int/social_determinants/thecommission/finalreport/key_concepts/en/
That doesn't mean nations follow their guidelines.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 16:21:50
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:23:07
Subject: Re:OBAMA 2012
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
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Frazzled wrote:PhantomViper wrote:So instead of addressing the issue you (you as a nation, not you in particular), just deny the numbers... that is a way to do it I guess...
We're not denying "the numbers." We're saying our "numbers" are different than your "numbers."
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The UN, the WHO and even the CIA make those comparisons and corroborate what I'm saying, but you guys are saying that they are all wrong so I'm just supposed to believe you...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 16:34:39
Subject: Re:OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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PhantomViper wrote: Frazzled wrote:PhantomViper wrote:So instead of addressing the issue you (you as a nation, not you in particular), just deny the numbers... that is a way to do it I guess...
We're not denying "the numbers." We're saying our "numbers" are different than your "numbers."
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The UN, the WHO and even the CIA make those comparisons and corroborate what I'm saying, but you guys are saying that they are all wrong so I'm just supposed to believe you...
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. I'm saying I've seen that as differences between countries. Self reporting is a dangerous thing.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 17:07:49
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Here, for what it is worth, is a link to the Wikipedia article on infant mortality and the effect of different data gathering practices.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 17:34:21
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Look... we can argue till we're all blue.
But to say that we have sucky healthcare when you try to compare the system between nations is disingenuous. Trust me, those organization are NOT the subject matter experts for ALL healthcare world wide. This is not something simple as.. "hey, let's ask for data and run an analysis". The methodolgy is different... why, it makes sense. Not everyone, hosptial, caregiver will document the same way.
As much industries like to push for this, there are no standards. (it's why I have my job).
To prove my point, just look at the Clinical Research firms.
Pharmaceuticals and Medical equipment manufacturers spends a gak-ton of money to perform research... you know why? Because it takes a gak ton of manpower to oversee/manage the clinical trials (sometimes done world-wide) just so that the data is accurately documented. Very MANUALLY intensive in terms of management.
Now asking independent organizations to conform to some standards... even at a local level, that doesn't happen.
So... according to your link http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN... we'ved measured 6 per 1000 infant mortality. That's pretty damn good. Even then, you have to look at the methodology / location / some grain of salt when analysing this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 17:38:58
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 17:50:26
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Is the guy lecturing us on statistics and how we are all wrong and he is right the same guy that said that all the statistics and polls are wrong and he was right?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:04:52
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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d-usa wrote:Is the guy lecturing us on statistics and how we are all wrong and he is right the same guy that said that all the statistics and polls are wrong and he was right?
Dude... that's different.
But... good one... gotta give you props for that. (is this where I say touche?)
My contention from Nate Silver's was from my sabermetric days in baseball. If you want to see a cesspool arguement that can get, take a gander.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:07:12
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Fixture of Dakka
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I think d-usa is having a troll and fade day.
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Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:09:01
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Can we go back to arguing over ObamaTime? Discussing child mortality is...icky.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:11:14
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Not having a fade and troll day. I guess I could reply to the whole "the house did propose a budget" argument with the usual "how about they propose a budget that doesn't consist of conservative wish-listing that ignores any idea of a bipartisan compromise in favor of pandering to their rich donor base and ideological nuts and propose a working budget instead that actually includes some sort of compromise instead", but then we have all been down that road too many times haven't we...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 18:11:29
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:27:46
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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In comparison to Obama's budgets which were approved by neither party. Excellent.
Like I said, let the Democrats do it. Then its completely, utterly on their heads.
SImples-Bowles 2016: A ticket we can believe in!
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:31:09
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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I like the implication that everyone else is under reporting child mortality statistics to make the US look bad. That's awesome, really awesome. Because no other country cares about their kids, especially not these dirty socialists with their national healthcare systems. The lying scum.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:36:58
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Fixture of Dakka
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d-usa wrote:Not having a fade and troll day. I guess I could reply to the whole "the house did propose a budget" argument with the usual "how about they propose a budget that doesn't consist of conservative wish-listing that ignores any idea of a bipartisan compromise in favor of pandering to their rich donor base and ideological nuts and propose a working budget instead that actually includes some sort of compromise instead", but then we have all been down that road too many times haven't we...
Yes the 74B in cuts below Obama's proposed budget were EARTH SHATTERING in a 3.8T budget. Which is why the Senate refused to bring it to the floor right?
I'm sorry you were talking about pandering and ideological nuts. You must have meant not bothering to vote on or try to work out a budget with the highest end of cuts at 1.9% of the liberal wishlist that was sent to the House in the first place. Or I suppose we should talk about 2009 and 2010 when the Democrats controlled Congress as a whole and Barry was in office but no budgets were passed.
Yes I see how failure to compromise by those evil Republicans is the root cause of the continued failure to reach a budget in the past 4 years.
We can dance but I don't think you'll like the music.
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Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
I have conceded that the Eldar page I started in P&M is their legitimate home. Free Candy! Updated 10/19.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391553.page
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:43:57
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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Frazzled wrote:In comparison to Obama's budgets which were approved by neither party. Excellent.
Like I said, let the Democrats do it. Then its completely, utterly on their heads.
SImples-Bowles 2016: A ticket we can believe in!
Hey... I liked the Simples-Bowles proposal. It didn't do enough, but we won't be able to fix it on one go... so, it's a good start. Automatically Appended Next Post: Da Boss wrote:I like the implication that everyone else is under reporting child mortality statistics to make the US look bad. That's awesome, really awesome. Because no other country cares about their kids, especially not these dirty socialists with their national healthcare systems. The lying scum.
Uh what? Where you getting that?
Look at this chart: http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.IMRT.IN
USofA is right there with the other western world. But, again I'd be interested to see the methodogy.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 18:46:10
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:46:23
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Imperial Admiral
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Kilkrazy wrote: Seaward wrote: Kilkrazy wrote:Yes. There is a lot of sense in his article.
If Republicans would just ditch the extreme issues on abortion and so on, they and Democrats would find a lot less water in between their parties.
Why would anyone vote for slightly stingier Democrats?
Because they agree with that stance but they won't vote for nasty Republicans and the Democrats are the only other choice.
But Republicans can't win elections without the pro-life element. It would take them far too long to rebuild a base if they dumped the pro-lifers overboard.
Moreover, most of America's in the middle on abortion - not in favor of unrestricted abortions, not in favor of outright bans. Republicans can - and have - won that flexible middle before. Lately, they've just done an awesome job of screwing themselves over by talking.
The main problem with Republicans, as I see it, isn't so much the social issues - though as someone who voted at least partially Republican this cycle, I'd like if they dropped a few myself - but that they're claiming the "fiscal responsibility" mantle with little to show for it. Give us good, workable budget ideas, and they can start to win. Being just as bad at fiscal responsibility as Democrats will just incline people to "vote for free stuff," and that vote goes Democrat.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 18:47:06
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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AustonT wrote: d-usa wrote:Not having a fade and troll day. I guess I could reply to the whole "the house did propose a budget" argument with the usual "how about they propose a budget that doesn't consist of conservative wish-listing that ignores any idea of a bipartisan compromise in favor of pandering to their rich donor base and ideological nuts and propose a working budget instead that actually includes some sort of compromise instead", but then we have all been down that road too many times haven't we...
Yes the 74B in cuts below Obama's proposed budget were EARTH SHATTERING in a 3.8T budget. Which is why the Senate refused to bring it to the floor right?
I'm sorry you were talking about pandering and ideological nuts. You must have meant not bothering to vote on or try to work out a budget with the highest end of cuts at 1.9% of the liberal wishlist that was sent to the House in the first place. Or I suppose we should talk about 2009 and 2010 when the Democrats controlled Congress as a whole and Barry was in office but no budgets were passed.
Yes I see how failure to compromise by those evil Republicans is the root cause of the continued failure to reach a budget in the past 4 years.
We can dance but I don't think you'll like the music.
What are we dancing to? Sinatra? or Mosh Pitting on Death Metal?
\m/
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 19:10:23
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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I looked at it. The US is not awful. However, it is also not top of the pile.
Why would you assume the methodology would be skewed against the USA? I mean, why would that be likely?
I see this sort of paranoia a fair bit when someone posts a stat that is less than favourable towards the US. I don't really understand it. If I see a statistic that Ireland (my home country) is doing worse in some way than other countries, I don't auto assume that the methodology must be flawed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 19:11:31
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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Da Boss wrote:I looked at it. The US is not awful. However, it is also not top of the pile.
Why would you assume the methodology would be skewed against the USA? I mean, why would that be likely?
I see this sort of paranoia a fair bit when someone posts a stat that is less than favourable towards the US. I don't really understand it. If I see a statistic that Ireland (my home country) is doing worse in some way than other countries, I don't auto assume that the methodology must be flawed.
I'm saying skewed in general between all the countries. I have no dog in this hunt.
Now if you could really dig down, it would be interesting to see what the mortality rate in the US is in non Southern border states. It would also be interesting to see what the mortality rate is sans drug babies. I bet if you take that variable out the mortality rates go through the floor (in other countries as well).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 19:14:03
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 19:19:54
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Yes, I'd definitely agree. And your point is more valid when you state it that way, cheers.
I mean, even looking at "The US" as a bloc is a bit misleading. You've got some really isolated rural areas there where medical care is going to be difficult to provide anyhow, and you've got plenty of cities in various states of prosperity skewing stuff all over the shop.
I think sitting over here in Europe, it's too easy to think of the US as one homogeneous country rather than 50 closely related states co-operating. Americans are often mocked for not knowing enough about the world, but conversely, I think many of us outside the US have only superficial understanding of what's going on in the individual states. The overexposure to american media gives us false confidence that we understand stuff. Americans often talk about the UK, Germany, France, individually. Europeans (on Dakka and other fora I've browsed) are less likely to talk about California, New York, Washington.
Dakka OT definitely made me realise I was making that mistake a lot.
Edit: However, I still reserve the right to get grumpy and make snarky posts if I think people are being unreasonable about the UN and other such organisations
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/13 19:23:17
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 20:19:59
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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Da Boss wrote:I looked at it. The US is not awful. However, it is also not top of the pile.
Why would you assume the methodology would be skewed against the USA? I mean, why would that be likely?
I see this sort of paranoia a fair bit when someone posts a stat that is less than favourable towards the US. I don't really understand it. If I see a statistic that Ireland (my home country) is doing worse in some way than other countries, I don't auto assume that the methodology must be flawed.
Yes, but Ireland doesn't have the reality-fighting jingoism.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 20:26:49
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Don't worry guys, if you just ignore all of these pesky facts and numbers and just look at these OTHER THINGS it turns out the United States is the best. At everything.
Just like Romney is going to have a landslide victory. Just ignore the polling consensus and instead look at all these other things over this way that show it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/13 20:27:40
Subject: OBAMA 2012
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Joined the Military for Authentic Experience
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Well, only towards the English  and these days the Germans. But yeah. We aim it more specifically  .
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