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What is the deal with pintle-mounted weapons, storm bolters, heavy stubbers, etc? I have been away from the hobby for a while (since 3rd Ed) and am just getting back into it. With 6th Ed there seems to be a "missing" piece in the rules regarding pintle-mounted weapons. Have they gone away? In a game on Saturday I was informed that defensive weapons didn't exist anymore and that all of a vehicles weapons must fire on the same target including the pintle-mounted storm bolter.

I have been through the IG codex and there is no mention of it. In the 3rd Ed rules codex there is a specific entry for PMWs, and in the 3rd Ed BRB there is a rule that a PMW can fire at a different target than the vehicle weaponry.

In the 6th Ed BRB the only thing I can find is on p78 under Fire Points, stating that "the passengers can shoot at a different target to the vehicle itself". Since, for example, a Chimera has 5 Fire Points "defined in its entry" and it can add a PMW under Options, does that mean that the PMW counts as a sixth Fire Point that can independently target enemy units? It seems that this would be the case, since there is a diagram on p72, "Arc of Sight 3" that shows a PMW as having a 360 degree fire-arc.

Or does it mean that PMWs have just been updated out of my codex and out of the game?

A PMW is a weapon on the vehicle, not a fire point.

Lets say you have a Chimera Multi-laser+ Heavy Flamer.

IIRC they can take a PMW Stormbolter.

It would have to shoot at the same target as the other weapons on the vehicle.

Pintle-mounted weapons have no rules as such anymore. The same is true for "defensive" weapons. Pintle-mounted weapons are not a fire point, they are just an extra weapon that the vehicle can fire.

So they are just decoration now, since spending 10 points for the addition of a Storm Bolter that you can't turn on nearby infantry after firing the Multilaser at an enemy vehicle is a waste.

This really makes me sad.

 hdbbstephen wrote:
So they are just decoration now, since spending 10 points for the addition of a Storm Bolter that you can't turn on nearby infantry after firing the Multilaser at an enemy vehicle is a waste.

This really makes me sad.

It was this way in 5th too, so you've missed quite a bit.

Yeah, the transition from 2nd to 3rd was a PIMA too, with the way that they changed the Assault phase. Blegh.

What really bugs me is how the vehicle models all have these cool Heavy Stubbers in pintle-mounts when they are fthing useless.

They are not useless when the Pintle-mounted weapon gets destroyed instead of your main weapon.

 DeathReaper wrote:
They are not useless when the Pintle-mounted weapon gets destroyed instead of your main weapon.

Good point, now that it is random in the selection of the weapon...still, 10 pts seems steep. It was 10 pts in 3rd Ed when you could actually fire it independently.

 hdbbstephen wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
They are not useless when the Pintle-mounted weapon gets destroyed instead of your main weapon.

Good point, now that it is random in the selection of the weapon...still, 10 pts seems steep. It was 10 pts in 3rd Ed when you could actually fire it independently.

It was 10 pts in 5th when you couldn't and WD was not random ^^

IG gets screwed again. Can't wait for the new codex, since this one is four years old... what new hell will they unleash? Arm them with actual flashlights?

 hdbbstephen wrote:
IG gets screwed again. Can't wait for the new codex, since this one is four years old... what new hell will they unleash? Arm them with actual flashlights?

IG is one of the top 3 armies running around, so if they got screwed ... well everyone else is eating poo pie for dinner.

 hdbbstephen wrote:
IG gets screwed again. Can't wait for the new codex, since this one is four years old... what new hell will they unleash? Arm them with actual flashlights?

Wait, so a rule that universally effects everyone the same, and has the same implications must be designed to "screw" IG? Why? Because you play IG and therefore it must be IG they're after? Might I add, that you are complaining about a Codex that has to be in the top 5 in the entire 40k series (from RT to 6e) in its lethality and its time in the sun as the top and later a top codex.

IG did take some hits in 6e, this isn't one of them. And as someone who played 3e back in the day, you are in a far better IG force now than then.

 hdbbstephen wrote:
It was 10 pts in 3rd Ed when you could actually fire it independently.

No, you couldn't. In third edition, you could fire it in addition to your normal complement of weapons fire, but it still had to be at the same target.

2nd ed was the last time that vehicles could generally split their weapons fire between different units.

Pintel-mount nowadays just basically means it's got a 360 swivel, like a turret.

In 4th and 5th edition there were rules for Defensive Weapons; any weapons of or below a certain Strength (6 in 4th, 4 in 5th) could be fired in addition to the one Main Weapon a vehicle could fire when moving, depending on whether it was Fast or not. So a Fast vehicle could move 12" and fire one Main plus any Defensive weapons, and a non-Fast could move 6" and fire one Main plus any Defensive.

Now in 6th, the extra weapons all get to be fired; they're just Snap Shots if you're moving and you're not Fast.

IG vehicles are overall significantly better off in 6th than they were in 3rd or 4th; much more mobile and points-effective for the firepower they have. Compared to 5th, most transports are definitely much more vulnerable than they used to be, but IG vehicles in general fared probably the best, as you can't easily suppress vehicle shooting with Glances anymore. Both Chimeras and Russ variants are significantly harder to stop from shooting now.

Thank you all for your input, like I said I've been away from it for a while and obviously need to do some more reading and studying different loadouts than I've been using. If you have any advice on that front I am definitely open to it. I'll have to do some converting, though, because my armies are Tallarn and Steel Legion, and getting more of them in different configurations isn't going to be as easy as going to the FLGS and picking out the ones I need.

The only useful thign that Pintle mounted weapons had in 5th (kind of) was that they counted as being AA mounted so coudl hit fliers in Apoc.

if they had given pintle mounted weapons the Skyfire rule that woudl have made them worth their weight in gold. Plus it woudl have been an easy way to gvie everyone at least some kind of anti-air, even if it is just S4.

 Praxiss wrote:
The only useful thign that Pintle mounted weapons had in 5th (kind of) was that they counted as being AA mounted so coudl hit fliers in Apoc.

if they had given pintle mounted weapons the Skyfire rule that woudl have made them worth their weight in gold. Plus it woudl have been an easy way to gvie everyone at least some kind of anti-air, even if it is just S4.

And by everyone you mean the Imperium.

 Praxiss wrote:
The only useful thign that Pintle mounted weapons had in 5th (kind of) was that they counted as being AA mounted so coudl hit fliers in Apoc.

if they had given pintle mounted weapons the Skyfire rule that woudl have made them worth their weight in gold. Plus it woudl have been an easy way to gvie everyone at least some kind of anti-air, even if it is just S4.

Well the A-Team could shoot down planes.
Although at the time that tank counted as a Flyer (with Deep Strike), so had the Skyfire option.

Happyjew wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
The only useful thign that Pintle mounted weapons had in 5th (kind of) was that they counted as being AA mounted so coudl hit fliers in Apoc.

if they had given pintle mounted weapons the Skyfire rule that woudl have made them worth their weight in gold. Plus it woudl have been an easy way to gvie everyone at least some kind of anti-air, even if it is just S4.

And by everyone you mean the Imperium.

Fair comment. The necron codex is the only xeons one i've ever read so i have no idea if any other army has an equivilent of pintle mounted.

 Praxiss wrote:
i have no idea if any other army has an equivilent of pintle mounted.

They don't.

Happyjew wrote:
And by everyone you mean the Imperium.

And chaos.

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
And by everyone you mean the Imperium.

And chaos.

Let me re-phrase. And by everyone you mean the Imperium and ex-Imperium.

Nothing but love

Happyjew wrote:

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
And by everyone you mean the Imperium.

And chaos.

Let me re-phrase. And by everyone you mean the Imperium and ex-Imperium.

And DE

WHat Dark ELdar vehicles can take Pintle-mounted weapons?

Happyjew wrote:
WHat Dark ELdar vehicles can take Pintle-mounted weapons?

Sorry, was being semi-facetious. As pointed out in the DE Arc of fire thread, DE vehicles don't have pintle-mounted weapons rules-wise, but rather, model-wise. In either case my post was not constructive. I apologize.

 Lordhat wrote:
Sorry, was being semi-facetious. As pointed out in the DE Arc of fire thread, DE vehicles don't have pintle-mounted weapons rules-wise, but rather, model-wise. In either case my post was not constructive. I apologize.

Much more polite than most YMDC posters. I like him already. Can I keep him?

 Vindicare-Obsession wrote:

 Lordhat wrote:
Sorry, was being semi-facetious. As pointed out in the DE Arc of fire thread, DE vehicles don't have pintle-mounted weapons rules-wise, but rather, model-wise. In either case my post was not constructive. I apologize.

Much more polite than most YMDC posters. I like him already. Can I keep him?

Fine, but he'll be your responsibility. You'll have to feed him and take him for walks.