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Was reading the rule for champion of Chaos last night, to be sure I don't have to be in a challenge to get a roll on the boon table if I kill a character. Such as in shooting if it happened to be my chaos lord who's shots take down a character or my challenge is denied and my close combat attacks happen to take one down. Is this all correct?

Ub3rb3n wrote:
Was reading the rule for champion of Chaos last night, to be sure I don't have to be in a challenge to get a roll on the boon table if I kill a character. Such as in shooting if it happened to be my chaos lord who's shots take down a character or my challenge is denied and my close combat attacks happen to take one down. Is this all correct?

"Whenever a character with the Champion
of Chaos special rule kills an enemy character" PG 28 C:CSM

Seems clear cut to me. Whenever

This is correct. Remember to roll those characters separately and keep an eye out for any precision shots/strikes

OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Are precision shots and strikes to hit or wound in a 6? Don't got my rule book on me

Ub3rb3n wrote:
Are precision shots and strikes to hit or wound in a 6? Don't got my rule book on me

To hit

Still awesome!

plasma pistols might be worth it now

As well the shooting player gets to determine which wounds are being saved for first

 Praxiss wrote:
OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Don't forget though, every chaos character that gets to roll on the boon table, must issue and accept challenges if possible, so, while it's technically possible to kill characters outside of challenges, it's not going to happen in close combat. Realistically, it's only going to happen on a lucky precision shot.

Ub3rb3n wrote:
As well the shooting player gets to determine which wounds are being saved for first

This is a little miss leading. Its true you assign the AP order of the saves but it is not on a model by model basis. So a bolter shot from a champ and a regular CSM are thrown at the same AP, you have no right to tell the saving playing when the champs wounds come up in the pool sans it being a different AP. This supports plasma pistols for them more IMO.

Also remember that precision shots/strikes work for sergeants/champions too, so you have to roll their dice separate also, as they constitute characters in 6th too. Plasma guns on sergeants/champions are rather good now!

 Goat wrote:

Ub3rb3n wrote:
As well the shooting player gets to determine which wounds are being saved for first

This is a little miss leading. Its true you assign the AP order of the saves but it is not on a model by model basis. So a bolter shot from a champ and a regular CSM are thrown at the same AP, you have no right to tell the saving playing when the champs wounds come up in the pool sans it being a different AP. This supports plasma pistols for them more IMO.

The underlined is not 100% correct.

The wound pool cares about different Strengths, AP values and special rules, so any wounds from the champion would get its own wound pool.

"If there are Wounds with different Strengths, AP values or special rules, keep them separated into groups of Wounds in the pool." P.14

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Don't forget though, every chaos character that gets to roll on the boon table, must issue and accept challenges if possible, so, while it's technically possible to kill characters outside of challenges, it's not going to happen in close combat. Realistically, it's only going to happen on a lucky precision shot.

You get precision hits in melee too you know.

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Don't forget though, every chaos character that gets to roll on the boon table, must issue and accept challenges if possible, so, while it's technically possible to kill characters outside of challenges, it's not going to happen in close combat. Realistically, it's only going to happen on a lucky precision shot.

Actually it is possible in two different ways: You (or the enemy character(s)) are not engaged at the start of the Fight sub-phase, or if your opponent declines the Challenge.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Don't forget though, every chaos character that gets to roll on the boon table, must issue and accept challenges if possible, so, while it's technically possible to kill characters outside of challenges, it's not going to happen in close combat. Realistically, it's only going to happen on a lucky precision shot.

You get precision hits in melee too you know.

Yeah, but you can't use them if you're already in a challenge.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Happyjew wrote:

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Don't forget though, every chaos character that gets to roll on the boon table, must issue and accept challenges if possible, so, while it's technically possible to kill characters outside of challenges, it's not going to happen in close combat. Realistically, it's only going to happen on a lucky precision shot.

Actually it is possible in two different ways: You (or the enemy character(s)) are not engaged at the start of the Fight sub-phase, or if your opponent declines the Challenge.

I thought if the opposing character declined, they "piled out" for a lack of a better term? Do they still count as being engaged in the combat? I could have that one wrong, not to many folks decline challenges in my gaming group. It's cinematic

If you decline a challenge, you can still be killed. Considering you are engaged, since you declined the challenge, you can be the target of precision strikes.

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Don't forget though, every chaos character that gets to roll on the boon table, must issue and accept challenges if possible, so, while it's technically possible to kill characters outside of challenges, it's not going to happen in close combat. Realistically, it's only going to happen on a lucky precision shot.

You get precision hits in melee too you know.

Yeah, but you can't use them if you're already in a challenge.

Correct, but its important to remember if you have multiple characters. Like a Chaos Lord and his squad of buddies in melee with a space wolf squad led by Ragnar and an attached Wolf Guard.

The Champion and Wolf Guard can precision strike each other while the Lord and Ragnar are in their challange.

I was playing against an IG army the other week and he kept declining challenges to stop me getting rolls onthe Boon table.

So even in normal combat, if my character rolls a 6 i can assign it to the opposing character and still get a boon rol!

if only plasma guns/pistols were a little cheaper i would start taking them. Always struck me as weird that they are the same price.

Yes, but only if they are engaged(so a character way in the back is not eligible)

And just an FYI, when you refuse a challenge, the model that refuses is not moved to the back. He remains exactly where he was, and is still an eligible model for wounds to be assigned. He just can't attack.

Also remember that your opponent can still use Look out Sir on any precision strikes you allocate to his characters.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Yes, but only if they are engaged(so a character way in the back is not eligible)

And just an FYI, when you refuse a challenge, the model that refuses is not moved to the back. He remains exactly where he was, and is still an eligible model for wounds to be assigned. He just can't attack.

OK, i just want to get this right.....

If my lord issues a challenge and it is declined, both the Lord and the opponent can't hit in that combat at all? Sorry - i would check my rulebook but i'm at work.

The lord is fine. Only the coward that is chosen to refuse loses the chance to attack.

Its work like this.


You issue challenge,

Your opponent choses to accept or decline.

If he accepts, he nominates a character to accept.

If he declines, you choose the character to decline. That character doesn't get to attack. But he is still an eligible model for wound allocation, as per normal melee allocation.

Since this thread came out again I got a quick one for you guys, I'm pretty sure I'm correct but just want a second opinion. My squad of havocs are behind an ADL with the champ manning the quad-gun, any 6's from the quad gun are precision shots and can therefore kill characters with sv4+ (after they fail their LoS obviously) right?

Correct.

 alienvalentine wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
OMG.

I thought it was just in challenges!!

Don't forget though, every chaos character that gets to roll on the boon table, must issue and accept challenges if possible, so, while it's technically possible to kill characters outside of challenges, it's not going to happen in close combat. Realistically, it's only going to happen on a lucky precision shot.

false

You do not need precision shots to get the kills. Imagine you have a chaos lord with a combi plasma in a unit with 4 bolter shots and another combi plas. You should. The chaos lord gets a 2 and a 4 to hit, both hits but neither precision. The bolters get 3 hits and the other plas gets 1 hit. Those plas shots can still kill a character and still proc Champions of Chaos. by the soultrap FAQ for DE I would say that so long as the Chaos lord does 1 wound to the enemy character in the shooting step and the character dies then he rolls. as all shooting from one unit is simo.

hence chaos lord does 1 wound with his combi plas to a nob and 1 bolter does a wound to the nob, both shots from the same unit. The nob dies and the lord rolls on the Boon talbe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Since this thread came out again I got a quick one for you guys, I'm pretty sure I'm correct but just want a second opinion. My squad of havocs are behind an ADL with the champ manning the quad-gun, any 6's from the quad gun are precision shots and can therefore kill characters with sv4+ (after they fail their LoS obviously) right?

ANY shot from the quad gun that gets allocated to a character, from precision shots or otherwise that kills the character will cause a roll.

The rule says when the champion kills an enemy character. So i woudl take as the champion has to at least deal the final wound. An assist doesn't count.#

To be on the safe side try to always roll your champions dice separately or with different colour dice. That way you will know if the champion rolled a precision shot or if it was their shot that finally killed the enemy charcter.

 Praxiss wrote:
The rule says when the champion kills an enemy character. So i woudl take as the champion has to at least deal the final wound. An assist doesn't count.#

To be on the safe side try to always roll your champions dice separately or with different colour dice. That way you will know if the champion rolled a precision shot or if it was their shot that finally killed the enemy charcter.

I though it didn't need to be the final wound, only be made at the same I step as the char dies. Don't have my codex here but I remember reading something like that and thinking finally... this is what my warriors of chaos need in fantasy

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
The rule says when the champion kills an enemy character. So i woudl take as the champion has to at least deal the final wound. An assist doesn't count.#

To be on the safe side try to always roll your champions dice separately or with different colour dice. That way you will know if the champion rolled a precision shot or if it was their shot that finally killed the enemy charcter.

I though it didn't need to be the final wound, only be made at the same I step as the char dies. Don't have my codex here but I remember reading something like that and thinking finally... this is what my warriors of chaos need in fantasy

Pg 28. Top right paragraph. "If an enemy character dies as a result of multiple wounds and one or more of those wounds were caused by the champion, that champion still rolls on the Chaos Boon table."

Wow, that's even better.

I would still roll your champions hit separately though just for the precision shots.