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Fenrir Kitsune wrote:

 Catyrpelius wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:
I suppose avatars could be seen as something which increases the cost of having your options available significantly... If you play in hypercompetitive meta and cheap is a higher priority than varied to you?

From personal experiance with the tournaments I've run at various conventions the avatars aren't that common except for a few masters. The majority of the winners I've had have either not included the avatar in their crew or never manifested it.

I think avatars was Wyrd first bit of a stumble. I've seen them at a tournament here and there, and a malifaux mad chap at the club uses one regularly, but aside from that they just don't seem to be that popular at all. Theres got to be 7-8 semi regular Malifaux players (inc a henchman), but few people use them. Big buzz and lots of chatter about them in the build up to release, then.........................nothing really.

I'll follow Wyrd for while yet and still play malifaux, but TBH theres not much they are doing that grabs me at the moment. This cutesy gingerbread guff fails hard on a grumpy old man like me! Do need to get a Blessed of December at some point though.

Saw this KS for the RPG and though "yep, just the thing to get back into the 'faux after being out of it for a while". Shame its sort of confirmed a lot of feeling I've had building for a while.

*edit* I've found the plastics to be costly for what they are. Its plastic minis priced like metal ones. Bit close to GW style for me, that one.

I suspect the comparatively high startup costs on molds like that and relatively low turnover of boxes like a malifaux crew, compared to a GW troops choice, would leave them little choice... I'm still surprised they can make it work TBH.

 Bolognesus wrote:


I suspect the comparatively high startup costs on molds like that and relatively low turnover of boxes like a malifaux crew, compared to a GW troops choice, would leave them little choice... I'm still surprised they can make it work TBH.

The whole "plastic has soooooo incredible high start-up costs" myth needs to finally die a quick, ugly death.

It's not 2002 anymore.

Look at what's out there - not least on Kickstarter - for plastic-cast miniatures.

DreamForge managed to finance state-of-the-art-slide-core-hard-plastic-tooling for a variety of Titan-sized kits, with dozends of weapon variants, a troop APC-style transporter, boxes for 5 or 6 different types of infantry, all with gazillion of options, as well as a few Kickstarter specials and rare miniatures out of a 250.000,- USD Kickstarter (which also pays for buckets of the miniatures themselves AND shipping them all over the world too).

Forar wrote:
Re: Avatars: if that's "hate", man, you must live in one absurdly laid back world. O.o

The avatars vary heavily from faction to faction. Some Neverborn players seem keen on theirs. Some Ressers seem to consider most of theirs amazing. I wouldn't know, I haven't committed the time necessary to figure that all out, and I've yet to play against any. I just know that what Perdita and Hoffman give up in their Avatar form is a tough sell compared to what they lose. That's not "hating", it's an assessment of the stats on the figures against costs, both in game and out. As someone who owns the entire Guild lineup (minus 3 avatars and 2 figures because they are remarkably disappointing), I made the call, and one day I might get around to snagging them, but for now I'd rather have that $100+ in my pocket.

But of course, you are Defending Against The Haters. ;-)

For the most part it's laid back. There isn't a lot of seriousness in my statement about the hate (thus the ). I find avatars an interesting change, and I rarely find issue in manifesting my avatar. I can see where people don't like them, and I wouldn't mind if there were some differences to my main avatar (like I think aPandora should be able to cast a spell and have those wild tentacles pop up elsewhere on the board, but that's the drawback I take with her).

And I can't count, I forgot I bought aLeviticus at GenCon because I had Guild Scripps I needed to spend fast, so I picked up him, Tina's box (again) and Levi's starter box. I just have never used him, and probably won't until I run the 4 Horseman of Malifaux list

Maybe I'm jaded by what I'm used to paying for GW, but I think the new Relic Hunters box is an absolute bargain at $40 MSRP, especially when I'll probaby only pay $24-$30 for it based on wherever I buy it from.

Avatars Commentary on ones we own:

Sonnia ($40 MSRP) - Really like this model, and my wife loves it. Plenty of value IMO at $40.

Lady Justice ($35) - Just got her in yesterday. I don't mind it... It isn't my favorite model, and I think she's a touch overpriced.

Perdita ($45) - Worth every Penny. Love this model. Only wish the body of the neverborn she's riding was resin and not metal.

Ramos ($28) - He's okay. Not my favorite of the Arcanists, but I like him. Priced very well, and I think Lady J should have been priced here also.

Marcus ($30) - Didn't like the wings at first, but when I assembled and cleaned the model, I changed my tune. A GREAT deal at $30. He's nearly the size of Perdita, so the price discrepancy is odd. Wish his body was resin.

Tina ($30) - Probably my favorite of the Arcanists avatars. I think she's pretty well priced at $30. No great bargain, but not bad. I think Wyrd could do VERY well with her if they released a blue or clear resin one like Dark Age does.

Colette ($30) - She's okay. She's really three models, so it's only $10 a model. That's pretty fair any way you cut it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Forar wrote:

The avatars vary heavily from faction to faction. Some Neverborn players seem keen on theirs. Some Ressers seem to consider most of theirs amazing. I wouldn't know, I haven't committed the time necessary to figure that all out, and I've yet to play against any. I just know that what Perdita and Hoffman give up in their Avatar form is a tough sell compared to what they lose. That's not "hating", it's an assessment of the stats on the figures against costs, both in game and out. As someone who owns the entire Guild lineup (minus 3 avatars and 2 figures because they are remarkably disappointing), I made the call, and one day I might get around to snagging them, but for now I'd rather have that $100+ in my pocket.

Curious to know who you were disappointed in I'd love to see if I agree

Edit: also, while Snowstorm is a large and impressive figure to be sure, calling it "two models" is disingenuous, as the "second one" is a teeny tiny woman (single piece, if I'm not mistaken) who sits in front of him. I'm pretty sure I've got single parts of other models that are bigger and more detailed than she is.

I think snowstorm is great. And I don't think $35 for him (or 25-30 online) Is unreasonable at all. He's quite a large model...

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:


I suspect the comparatively high startup costs on molds like that and relatively low turnover of boxes like a malifaux crew, compared to a GW troops choice, would leave them little choice... I'm still surprised they can make it work TBH.

The whole "plastic has soooooo incredible high start-up costs" myth needs to finally die a quick, ugly death.

It's not 2002 anymore.

Look at what's out there - not least on Kickstarter - for plastic-cast miniatures.

DreamForge managed to finance state-of-the-art-slide-core-hard-plastic-tooling for a variety of Titan-sized kits, with dozends of weapon variants, a troop APC-style transporter, boxes for 5 or 6 different types of infantry, all with gazillion of options, as well as a few Kickstarter specials and rare miniatures out of a 250.000,- USD Kickstarter (which also pays for buckets of the miniatures themselves AND shipping them all over the world too).

Yes - lots of those are either restic like stuff (which is cast in rubber molds - lower start-up!) or stuff prospective buyers get 5 or 6 each of - and part of a smaller range with less variety in boxes.
Tooling steel molds for injection molding is still expensive. Not half as much as it was, and there's a lot more that can be done now, but it's still a high cost.
Wyrd is tooling minis hardly anyone will be getting more than one of, in a wide range (lots of different masters/starter kits!) in HIPS. That is still quite impressive and they need a relatively big margin over and above the cost per unit to recoup that initial investment.
Because of a drop in costs it is now feasible to do it - but to expect prices to go down significantly because of it well, that would probably require Malifaux to get a bit bigger than it is now, in terms of sales...
Also, I believe that rail golem thing *would* have been significantly more expensive in resin or metal - it seems plastic did help them keep the cost a bit lower there. (that thing is huge, for a game like this!)
It's a relatively small sprue for the size of the model, though (and therefore relatively lucrative to tool in plastic as opposed to materials where the cost per gram of used material matters a lot more).

 cincydooley wrote:

Forar wrote:

The avatars vary heavily from faction to faction. Some Neverborn players seem keen on theirs. Some Ressers seem to consider most of theirs amazing. I wouldn't know, I haven't committed the time necessary to figure that all out, and I've yet to play against any. I just know that what Perdita and Hoffman give up in their Avatar form is a tough sell compared to what they lose. That's not "hating", it's an assessment of the stats on the figures against costs, both in game and out. As someone who owns the entire Guild lineup (minus 3 avatars and 2 figures because they are remarkably disappointing), I made the call, and one day I might get around to snagging them, but for now I'd rather have that $100+ in my pocket.

Curious to know who you were disappointed in I'd love to see if I agree

As a primarily Guild player, I do love Sonnia's Avatar form. She gains some mobility in Flight, her counter-spell becomes that much nastier, and her flame pillars not only persist but can be moved right onto people for damage and a burning token, on top of the horrors that can be arranged with Searing Wave.

I don't have my books in front of me to do a point by point, but Perdita and Hoffman in particular lose more than I'm willing to give up. Sure, Perdita gains Flight and Paired, but she loses some considerable things as well. I'll try to remember to grab my copy of book 3 tonight and look up the specifics of what I dislike. Hoffman I generally build as a Construct crew, and he loses a lot of his synergy within such crews in order to become a bit more combat oriented in the process. Dangerous, but I wouldn't consider him a terrifying force for the battlefield in his new form. Justice's I haven't looked at much in a while, but that's more due to our other Guild player primarily playing Justice herself, so it's more 'her master', I just have her on hand to keep my options open.

Edit: also, while Snowstorm is a large and impressive figure to be sure, calling it "two models" is disingenuous, as the "second one" is a teeny tiny woman (single piece, if I'm not mistaken) who sits in front of him. I'm pretty sure I've got single parts of other models that are bigger and more detailed than she is.

I think snowstorm is great. And I don't think $35 for him (or 25-30 online) Is unreasonable at all. He's quite a large model...

Note: I didn't say he was unreasonably priced. I said it was disingenuous to call him 2 models. He is one GIGANTIC model, and one extremely small part that is more of an accessory than a second model.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
It started for me with the change to plastic, and the increase in models price.

I must be confused, where did the model prices go up? Yes Jakob Lynch's box is on the high end (possibly one of the most expensive boxes), but all the new plastics are decently priced. The metal rats seem to be gakky in price, but everything else is right around where the metal prices were.

The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.

When they started out, Wyrd was "One of the boyz". You could have some reactions to some of the stuff, have a few ooohs, and ahhs with the new stuff coming out almost on a regular basis, but then as the helltrain flew off the tracks, some of the standards that they established have slacked off to the point of average and the sculpts and characterization of the established characters has been compromised to "JUST SELL" stuffs.

Again, I'm interested in examples of this. I honestly would love to hear your opinions on this.

+1. I've found their characters to be one of the best parts of their games, with a fair amount of fun, some real twists (notably including alliances that actually go counter to the rules game), and the rare little nugget of gold in this or that. I consider myself pretty critical of Hasbro writing, and haven't seen much of any in the Malifaux setting, so I'm curious what you're seeing.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.

Most of them come with one or two extra/interchangeable bits. I won't like. It's taken some serious restraint from me not to buy multiples of models so I can have both looks

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.

Most of them come with one or two extra/interchangeable bits. I won't like. It's taken some serious restraint from me not to buy multiples of models so I can have both looks

Dammit Cincy! Stop ruining this image I have in my head of you being a Wyrd hater

Speaking of aSonnia, I spent all Saturday of GenCon in the Event Hall demoing Malifaux using figures that Ebonstar (a "Mali-famous" Henchman from SoCal) had painted. And while I was sitting down taking a quick break (after 6 hours of standing >_<, this woman comes up and sees Ebonstar's aSonnia and tells her husband she wants that sitting on her mantle. She sadly seemed put off by the fact she would have to assemble and paint it lol. I don't play Guild very often, but aSonnia is probably my favorite model from that line (besides just how cool the Guild Riflemen look )

The only thing I dislike about the new plastics is that some bits can be amazingly difficult to figure out and assemble properly just by looking at the back of the box. The hats for the Ten Thunders Archers are one example. The cloth bits drove me completely bat-eyed crazy for a while there. Willie practically assembled himself though, so I guess there's a balance somehow.

The one thing I love about the figures is the fact that the plastic is sturdy enough that they can make extremely fine/fiddly bits and still have those pieces hold up under typical useage/storage. It seems that they form a better bond via plastic cement, than GW's models. In fact, I'd say they're a LOT better than the GW figs in this department.

Now if only we could convince them to re-release the old metals in plastic....

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
The new 3 dude packs are mostly more expensive than their metal ones, but I looked at the sprues, and they're way more detailed minis, so my perception of "too expensive" quickly became "pretty justifiably expensive," as long as you care about how your minis look.

Most of them come with one or two extra/interchangeable bits. I won't like. It's taken some serious restraint from me not to buy multiples of models so I can have both looks

Dammit Cincy! Stop ruining this image I have in my head of you being a Wyrd hater

Speaking of aSonnia, I spent all Saturday of GenCon in the Event Hall demoing Malifaux using figures that Ebonstar (a "Mali-famous" Henchman from SoCal) had painted. And while I was sitting down taking a quick break (after 6 hours of standing >_<, this woman comes up and sees Ebonstar's aSonnia and tells her husband she wants that sitting on her mantle. She sadly seemed put off by the fact she would have to assemble and paint it lol. I don't play Guild very often, but aSonnia is probably my favorite model from that line (besides just how cool the Guild Riflemen look )

Hey, I never claimed to hate them. The fact that I've been critical is because I like them. I expect better from them. It's like when I played football: You never worry when the coach chews your ass. You get your ass chewed because the coach cares. The minute they stop is the minute you should start worrying.

So...Presumably we'll see Avatars for the 10 Thunders Dudes too, right? Interesting.

Speaking of Guild Riflemen... have you built them yet? Any fiddly bits I need to worry about?

I don't think we'll see avatars for Book 4 masters, probably not for a while. Technically The Event has already happened, and if our Ten Thunders peeps didn't have something change in them, probably nothing will... This being said, we might see one in two years or so, but who knows.

Haven't assembled my riflemen yet, but I know they're "fiddly as gak" Nix was saying they should probably be painted on the sprue, because there are some pieces that are difficult to get to once assembled. But they're by far my favorite model to come out besides the new Master models (I'm in love with the sculpts for Mei Fang, Lynch, Misaki, and now McCabe, I'm a little curious about Yan Lo, but who knows!)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though I should note: I'm probably gonna see about making a Guild Riflewoman for my Lady J crew so that she remains all ladies all the time

Is the McCabe box out?!?!? To the LGS!

 cincydooley wrote:
Is the McCabe box out?!?!? To the LGS!

January release, for whatever that means... never paid attention to what Wyrd's release schedule means (i.e. beginning/middle/end of month).

It's closer to the end.

The Guild Riflemen should be out now, but McCabe probably won't be out for ~3 weeks or so.

I snagged McCabe during their Birthday sale early in December (which they had instead of a Black Friday sale, basically the same thing), during which McCabe and a few other models were available early.

I really should've just waited to get it from my local store and saved $15 (after S&H vs Taxes), but I managed to get one of the NE LCBs, and figured I might as well guarantee a copy of McCabe, rather than risking a "oops, we ran out/it was delayed, maybe next month" situation. Oh well, a buddy got hooked up with an awesome model and I'll have something to work on later in the month once my move is mostly done.

Forar wrote:
It's closer to the end.

The Guild Riflemen should be out now, but McCabe probably won't be out for ~3 weeks or so.

I snagged McCabe during their Birthday sale early in December (which they had instead of a Black Friday sale, basically the same thing), during which McCabe and a few other models were available early.

I really should've just waited to get it from my local store and saved $15 (after S&H vs Taxes), but I managed to get one of the NE LCBs, and figured I might as well guarantee a copy of McCabe, rather than risking a "oops, we ran out/it was delayed, maybe next month" situation. Oh well, a buddy got hooked up with an awesome model and I'll have something to work on later in the month once my move is mostly done.

I hate you Forar, I had the cash for a NE LCB, and I couldn't get my mitts on one D: So I settled for Teddy instead.

And McCabe should be "available" in your FLGS in 2 weeks or so, and available on Wyrd's website probably around the first of February (I only know this because Misaki's box just went up on Wyrd's webstore late last night or early today.

Hey, at least I'm not just reselling it on Ebay! :-D

Which, admittedly, was a small risk. I offered the figure to one friend (our primary Neverborn player). If he didn't want it, it was going up for grabs between 3 other friends (not competitively, more of a 'first come, first serve' approach, I'm looking to recoup costs, not make money), but if not it was going up for auction, and probably would've paid for the entire purchase, rather than ending up as a bit of a loss (due to Wyrd charging full MSRP whereas I can get stuff at 1/3 off locally).

I wasn't actually looking forward to it ending up 'in the wild', but it was a consideration, if just to ensure I didn't end up sitting on a model I wasn't actually going to use. Simply happened to be fast enough on the draw and figured that by the time my friends got to a computer they'd all be gone.

Nearly grabbed a Teddy too, but I couldn't be certain any of our 3 NB players (or the others who just love the model) would be willing to pay for him. Two calculated risks were enough for me on that order.

Edit: and we're nearly up to 193k, for the first time, if I'm not mistaken. $150 short at the moment.

I know it'll continue to bounce up and down, but ye gods am I tired of seeing this campaign hover between 191 and 192.

Forar wrote:
Hey, at least I'm not just reselling it on Ebay! :-D

Which, admittedly, was a small risk. I offered the figure to one friend (our primary Neverborn player). If he didn't want it, it was going up for grabs between 3 other friends (not competitively, more of a 'first come, first serve' approach, I'm looking to recoup costs, not make money), but if not it was going up for auction, and probably would've paid for the entire purchase, rather than ending up as a bit of a loss (due to Wyrd charging full MSRP whereas I can get stuff at 1/3 off locally).

I wasn't actually looking forward to it ending up 'in the wild', but it was a consideration, if just to ensure I didn't end up sitting on a model I wasn't actually going to use. Simply happened to be fast enough on the draw and figured that by the time my friends got to a computer they'd all be gone.

Nearly grabbed a Teddy too, but I couldn't be certain any of our 3 NB players (or the others who just love the model) would be willing to pay for him. Two calculated risks were enough for me on that order.

Edit: and we're nearly up to 193k, for the first time, if I'm not mistaken. $150 short at the moment.

I know it'll continue to bounce up and down, but ye gods am I tired of seeing this campaign hover between 191 and 192.

I've actively stopped looking at the total cash pledge right around Christmas. My money is set into my other bank account that is attached to a card I never use, so when the drive ends, my money goes bye-bye and I play the waiting game.

One thing I do hope they "learn" from the EBO KS to this one is to send everything out at once... I don't want to get the books, and then spend another few months waiting for my fate deck and minis to arrive.

They've said that it will be one single shipment that goes out.

As for the funding, I'm watching because I want to see this at least tick over 200k. Yeah, my tier retains a tiny risk of changing, but I think we'll be set on Santana as of tonight or tomorrow night, at which point I'm probably locked in.

Higher stretch goals for the book improvements and a few extra swag pieces wouldn't go unappreciated though, especially as someone who earlier mentioned how little terrain he has around the house.

Edit: 193k yesssssss! I saw it! It happened!

... it will probably be back to 192 and change by the time I post this. >.>

Alright, I know I've already dropped my pledge, but this update, had it been done earlier, would have made me keep it. TONS of changes made for the better and a telling of what the 750 and 1000 points on the bar mean.

Salutations!

Today's a big one. Lots of updates to go over! To begin with, we have some adjustments to the stretch goals. These are pretty straight forward, but I want to make sure to mention them each individually.

First, we have introduced a $195k stretch goal. When we hit it, the Core Set pledge levels ($60) will gain the Special Edition Fate Deck!

Secondly, we've moved the Digital book versions down from $250k to $205k, bringing them much closer to a device near you!

Lastly, we've added a new $215k level. This level exchanges the random Male or Female multi-pose kit for both kits! Yes, this means the Dining Room level will come with two of each!

Now, on to the "Ye Old Back-O-Meter One Thousand". You'll notice in today's update how close we are to breaking through to Santana at the Gaming Room pledge level. The official point total is 488 points as of this posting! As that meter moves up, we'll be adding Santana to more pledge levels. At 750 points, Santana will go out to our Living and Dining room backers. At 1000 points our Core Set backer's will also get a Santana!

Tomorrow, I'll post a little game. It's quite a puzzler. If the community solves it, it will net a cool 100 points towards unlocking Santana! We'll have more games coming next week as well, for even more points!

Oh, and the last two Breach Side Chat videos are up on Youtube now! So, if you're curious about the details of the mechanics or want to see if your questions were answered, you now have a second way to watch!

Holy crap. Did they actually come to their senses?????

Nooooooow they change things up a bit..

Perhaps! Although, I think that the early backer thing will bite them in the butt. I would totally come back and pledge... if I could get my Miss T and Penny Dreadful back. Maybe I'll message them and ask.

Holy Crap, they basically did everything I asked for...

Well, Dayum!

Wow. Colour me impressed!

Only problem is, plenty of $125 backers will not budge, I know I won't!

First time Wyrd's done something (EDIT) in this campaign I can almost completely get behind. Some good/more realistic choices moving some stuff and adding some. Having shorter stretches definitely has me more excited about this.

The only kind of minor complaint I have is that santana would theoretically be going down to the $60 range, which devalues the mini substantially.

Either way, I'm impressed about this-- it could actually turn around the campaign fairly substantially

 BrookM wrote:
Only problem is, plenty of $125 backers will not budge, I know I won't!

But that's the point: for the first time they are doing something that encourages people who haven't already pledged, to pledge. Now if only we can get them to put Miss T back, they will have soled almost all of their problems, and by that i mean done everything I ever asked!

@Buzzsaw: If they put Miss T in for $125 level, I'm in again, no questions asked.

Oh well, if this hits 205K I'll stick around, PDF's are always welcome!

Though I wonder what made them change things up like this?