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I don't understand how Eldar can have gods if they were not only created by the Old Ones, but REMEMBER (or at least some craft worlds do) that they were created by them and fought beside them against the Necrons. So why do they still believe in gods if they KNOW their origins? Is this cause of a retcon?

I don't know any thing about elder (other then what I just read)
But a good point you got there

Because all primitive societies seem to have them.
The rest may be 'race memory'.
Otherwise, it's because that's how it's written in the game so that's how it is.

Don't read your own assumptions about religious belief, whatever they might be, onto the Eldar.

Furthermore, it seems to me that the existence of the Avatars lends credence to the existence of the Eldar Gods in some sense.

the eldar gods are not the creators of the eldar and never have been the gods are but the embodiment of the eldar race as a whole is how i see it.

We arn't quite sure of the origins of the Eldar Gods, although they were probably created by the Old Ones.

The Eldar could be said to venerate the Old Ones as gods. Creator Gods.


Its possable the Eldar Gods were powerful beings the Old Ones created to lead the Eldar race, and they took on the mantle of gods. Each the Deity of whatever they specialized in.

And its not like the Eldar Gods were mythical. They were/are very real, as are all Gods in 40k.


We have living proof of Khaine and Cegorach. Isha is currently a prisoner in Nurgle's Garden. They are all that remains of the old Pantheon.

Why should the Eldar not believe in their gods just because they weren't created by them? You could ask the same of Chaos worshippers as well. Just like Chaos, the Eldar don't so much believe in their gods in the way we do, because they are able to see physical proof of the gods from time-to-time, the existence of Harlequins and the Avatar being proof of their god's existance.

The Eldar gods are not creator gods, but constructs of the Old Ones created to help the Eldar to fight against the Necrons.

Weren't the Eldar Gods a psychic manifestation of their beliefs in the Warp? Just like Gork and Mork for the Orks. Slaanesh appears to have originally been a manifestation not of their beliefs, but of their darkness, but after destroying most of the Eldar Gods and consuming their power, created a place for herself among the Powers of Chaos.

Possibly the Old Ones that created them became the Eldar Gods as guiding figures, or the Old Ones created them to protect them, being the template for the Eldar race, like the Primarchs and the Legions Astartes or maybe they formed in the warp as the Old Ones created the first Eldar, a by product either done intentionally or not.

I favor the last one - as the Eldar were always intended to be the 'perfect' psychic race (ironic, as they created a 'perfect' deity in the end), then it stands that even before they understood the nature of their powers and existence of the Warp, they would already have created 'gods'.

OP it is not because of a retcon it is because the Eldar are an ancient race that have lived through a massive cataclism. it is understandable that the elements of the Eldar's creation are now just myth, not fact.

the fact that the avatars of Khaine exist and that the laughing god is roaming free in the webway prove that the Eldar Gods are/were real.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
the Old Ones created them to protect them, being the template for the Eldar race, like the Primarchs and the Legions Astartes

This is the best/most interesting hypothesis to my mind. It would be interesting if the Emperor had to draw on the wisdom of the Old Ones to make the Primarchs -- plus it would make sense, given how keen the Emperor is on Old One technology.

What if the eldar gods are old ones?

I thought each "god" was the embodiment of an idea rather than an actual "god", like how Khaine represents the wrath of the eldar and the only reason so many many people beat the Avatar of khaine is because in the physical world he only has a small fragment of his true power, but he can never fully enter the physical world because he was broken up into "fragments"

Khaine is fully in the physical world, in a million pieces. If all pieces were to be brought together they could theoretically reunite.

In 40k, Gods are created by the psychic energies of emotions. This creates actual Gods that attain sentience after enough time/emotion till they become self-sustaining.

 Manchu wrote:

 Pilau Rice wrote:
the Old Ones created them to protect them, being the template for the Eldar race, like the Primarchs and the Legions Astartes

This is the best/most interesting hypothesis to my mind. It would be interesting if the Emperor had to draw on the wisdom of the Old Ones to make the Primarchs -- plus it would make sense, given how keen the Emperor is on Old One technology.

Unless the Chaos Gods and Eldar Gods share more than just a name. Maybe they are a the Yang to the Eldar Gods Ying and the Chaos Gods pawned off the Old Ones secrets too bring the Emperor to the fold?

"Gods" in 40k aren't creators or omnipotent beings. They are manifestations of a races psychic energy in the Warp. Some Gods are exclusive to the psychic energy of a race (Gork and Mork is only connected to Orks, the Eldar Gods to the Eldar, and so on) whereas the Chaos Gods seem to be effected by everyone.

...Why not?

There's a rather common fan theory that the Eldar gods are Old Ones, after all; based on the similarities between Khaine/Cegorach and Gork/Mork, given that they're both deities of races created by the Old Ones it's plausible that they're the same figures.

People create gods in the 40k universe, not the other way around...

Some things kind of allude to the Old Ones being the Eldar gods. I remember the new Necron codex mentioning the Eldar fought alongside the Old Ones in the War in Heaven. Their mythology, however, recounts the War in Heaven as a battle between Khaine and Vaul. It could be that the events have passed into obscurity and became their myths or that the two incidents are totally separate conflicts.

I set with the former. It makes more sense to me for the Eldar to revere their creators as gods while still in a primitive state, not knowing what they actually are. Such reverence would eventually lead to legends being told with facts being lost over time. If this theory stands true it would mean that the Old Ones are certainly around in some form such as the Avatars of Khaine and Cegorach or Gork/Mork.

Alternatively, the Eldar pantheon could be a series of psychic constructs made to shape the race properly. Think a form of manufactured role models to teach the Eldar everything they would need to know to battle the Necrons and C'tan. I feel this theory weakens the concept of the Eldar gods, though, by making the Old Ones greater than an entire pantheon of gods. This also shakes up the entire concept of the Necrons. If the Old Ones are powerful enough to create gods, why would they feel threatened by the miserable Necrontyr or the C'tan?

 Haunter! wrote:
Alternatively, the Eldar pantheon could be a series of psychic constructs made to shape the race properly. Think a form of manufactured role models to teach the Eldar everything they would need to know to battle the Necrons and C'tan. I feel this theory weakens the concept of the Eldar gods, though, by making the Old Ones greater than an entire pantheon of gods. This also shakes up the entire concept of the Necrons. If the Old Ones are powerful enough to create gods, why would they feel threatened by the miserable Necrontyr or the C'tan?

Because the Necrontyr and the C'tan were relatively resistant to the Warp-driven powers of the Old Ones' constructs, and because the Old Ones' constructs (as artificial gods) can't actually stand up to real gods (see Slaanesh wiping out the Eldar pantheon during the Fall)? It could make sense, certainly.

These gods would have come into existence in the warp, just as Gork and Mork did, early into the creation of the eldar race. They formed around the principal concerns and ideas of the culture and evolved to fully fledged sentient beings, somewhere in power between a greater daemon and a chaos god.

They would have continued to grow and flourish and certainly were able to manifest a daemon like presence in the material universe fairly easily around their own people as the eldar were/are so psychic and all the wraithbone around them would likely act like a conduit.

The Eldar empire existed for millions of years, essentially since the War In Heaven which took place 60 million years ago. I would guess that certain Old Ones were the original 'gods' as portrayed in the myth and legend of the eldar and that either these beings were elevated to 'daemon/godhood' or veneration of their memory passed on via legend and tales led to their veneration taking root in the warp and 'becoming' the gods that the eldar remembered.

I thought their gods originated from the time that they weren't enhanced by the Old Ones, and were relatively simple. At that time they would have their own gods. Remember the Eldar weren't CREATED by the Old Ones, they were just changed and enhanced to what they are now. Since they lived through the Fall, it should be hard for them to remember what's myth and what's fact. It would explain the mythic echoes in, for example, the dances of the Harlies.

Pretty certain modern background lists the orks and eldar as two of many races created to battle the necrontyr.

Isn't it possible that the eldar gods could of been gods which the old ones worshipped or something along those lines.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Pretty certain modern background lists the orks and eldar as two of many races created to battle the necrontyr.

Pretty certain he meant that they just planned out their evolutionary pathway and they werent "Created" as most people would think. They just Made the way for them to become a race that is useful to their survival. The old ones arent known to create life but to manipulate it to become useful to them.