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 jonolikespie wrote:

 G. Whitenbeard wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

Stranger83 wrote:

And finally For those saying Mr Kirby is doing this to line his own pocket – I think that’s a little unfair. No doubt you would all be saying he was in the wrong if he had no shares in GW as he would have no incentive to run the company better, as one of the major shareholders it’s in his interest to run the company well, and for this reason I’m glad he has so many shares. Lets not forget that if he really was just trying to extract money from GW (in this case around £300k) and ran the company into the ground the share price would crash, making his (currently valued at) £6m worth of shares next to worthless – ask yourself the question, would you give up £6m in 5-10 years time (when I presume he’ll be looking to retire) for £300k now? Even £300k per year for the next 10 years is only half of what his shares will be worth if he keeps the company going strong.

Fair point, but thinking about how the company seems to be behaving (with everything aimed at the short term), and the Hobbit Bubble likely to burst in about 4-5 years time, I can see Kirby retiring perhaps a year before that happens, a millionaire many times over but leaving the company in an extremely perilous position.

And GW would then face a shareholder derivative action (with some steam behind it) based on Kirby and other directors violating their fiduciary duties of care and loyalty. Stranger83 has it right, directors and employee officers having a large stake in the company is one of the best ways to ensure that the company ISN'T run into the ground, because they stand to lose the most.

Not if they sell out right before it crashes and burns.

In America, that would be immediately followed up by an SEC 10(b)(5) action against the offending executives/directors for fraudulent market actions/insider trading etc...

Whether through a derivative corporate suit against the individual or through Federal action, it's nearly impossible to "dump and run" like in the old days without getting caught.

Stop bringing logic into this.

The point is Kirby is timing the crash so its just after he retires....
He is doing just enough to keep GW plc afloat, and paying good dividends (nearly doubling his £ 400 K salery each year.)

He is focusing entirely on short term profit, why should he care about the long term future of the company when he is this close to retiring?.

So Lanak is psychic now as well as a business guru.

You really are wasted here mate.

It wouldn't be the first time he's (Kirby) done this.

 notprop wrote:
So Lanak is psychic now as well as a business guru.

You really are wasted here mate.

To the man, ey?

Sorry fella I've left my tinfoil decoder hat at home so you'll have to explain.

What has kirby (him) done before exactly?

No. I can’t be bothered dealing with you.

Ah so you have nothing but an overused emoticon. Impressive!

Clearly my 'to the man' comment wooshed right over your head.

Are you sure you appear to be the one spinning in circles?

I just wanted to see if there was actually something your first statement. You know discussion rather than the usual tired conjecture and it would appear insinuation.

Boo someone doesn't pander immediately to my opinion, ergo I dub thee white knight. Have I missed something then?

HBMC has a problem with shareholders running a business for profit.

 Testify wrote:
HBMC has a problem with shareholders running a business for profit.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-vice-thats-squeezing-gw.html#more


Decent article. Oh and as an investor in the legalize gambling the stock market I certainly would not invest in GW at the moment. I get a better return and the confidence in investing into a major gaming company such as Hasbro. Now if Fantasy Flight Games opened up for funding, I'd invest into it in a heart beat as they have a good business model currently.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 Testify wrote:
HBMC has a problem with shareholders running a business for profit.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-vice-thats-squeezing-gw.html#more


Decent article. Oh and as an investor in the legalize gambling the stock market I certainly would not invest in GW at the moment. I get a better return and the confidence in investing into a major gaming company such as Hasbro. Now if Fantasy Flight Games opened up for funding, I'd invest into it in a heart beat as they have a good business model currently.

You know GW outperformed the S&P500 by over a 4 to 1 ratio over the last year as oppose to Hasbro which was essentially flat over the last year? I have owned some shares for the last year and it is the best performing stock I have and beat all the index funds (S&P500, NASDAQ, Wilshire 2000) quite handily. Though my continued holding of them relies on how the Hobbit does.

silent25 wrote:
You know GW outperformed the S&P500 by over a 4 to 1 ratio over the last year as oppose to Hasbro which was essentially flat over the last year? I have owned some shares for the last year and it is the best performing stock I have and beat all the index funds (S&P500, NASDAQ, Wilshire 2000) quite handily. Though my continued holding of them relies on how the Hobbit does.

Tom Kirby's primary and only goal is to squeeze as much money out of GW into his private coffers via dividends. No wonder that GW is better at paying divdends than at marketing, quality control, raising sales and customer numbers etc.

silent25 wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 Testify wrote:
HBMC has a problem with shareholders running a business for profit.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-vice-thats-squeezing-gw.html#more


Decent article. Oh and as an investor in the legalize gambling the stock market I certainly would not invest in GW at the moment. I get a better return and the confidence in investing into a major gaming company such as Hasbro. Now if Fantasy Flight Games opened up for funding, I'd invest into it in a heart beat as they have a good business model currently.

You know GW outperformed the S&P500 by over a 4 to 1 ratio over the last year as oppose to Hasbro which was essentially flat over the last year? I have owned some shares for the last year and it is the best performing stock I have and beat all the index funds (S&P500, NASDAQ, Wilshire 2000) quite handily. Though my continued holding of them relies on how the Hobbit does.

 Kroothawk wrote:

silent25 wrote:
You know GW outperformed the S&P500 by over a 4 to 1 ratio over the last year as oppose to Hasbro which was essentially flat over the last year? I have owned some shares for the last year and it is the best performing stock I have and beat all the index funds (S&P500, NASDAQ, Wilshire 2000) quite handily. Though my continued holding of them relies on how the Hobbit does.

Tom Kirby's primary and only goal is to squeeze as much money out of GW into his private coffers via dividends. No wonder that GW is better at paying divdends than at marketing, quality control, raising sales and customer numbers etc.

All shareholders want a quick buck, especially in small companies.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

silent25 wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 Testify wrote:
HBMC has a problem with shareholders running a business for profit.

http://theback40k.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-vice-thats-squeezing-gw.html#more


Decent article. Oh and as an investor in the legalize gambling the stock market I certainly would not invest in GW at the moment. I get a better return and the confidence in investing into a major gaming company such as Hasbro. Now if Fantasy Flight Games opened up for funding, I'd invest into it in a heart beat as they have a good business model currently.

You know GW outperformed the S&P500 by over a 4 to 1 ratio over the last year as oppose to Hasbro which was essentially flat over the last year? I have owned some shares for the last year and it is the best performing stock I have and beat all the index funds (S&P500, NASDAQ, Wilshire 2000) quite handily. Though my continued holding of them relies on how the Hobbit does.

There are two ways in answering this. The first way is to ask what is your investment mindset. If you are young enough (20's to 30's) you can go ahead and take chances with a company such as GW. If you are in the right place at the right time, you will be fine.

I'm an old man so my mindset is to have a stable return rate that is ahead of the inflation rate on a year to year basis.

I used Hasbro because of this. I like the yearly growth that it has,

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=HAS+Interactive#symbol=has;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Compared to GW's

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GAW.L+Interactive#symbol=gaw.l;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

GW is way too up and down for my tastes.

As I have posted previously, I'm into real estate. Both Commercial and Residential within the Western parts of the US. My portfolio is roughly 60% invested into property which I get a overall return of 8% profits per year. 25% in good old hard cash and 15% which consists of mostly Tax sheltered annuities, then federal and/or state exempt bonds. Because of my health and age I am actually consolidating my holdings and to those people who have been good to me (as well as my pets) will be taken care of financially when I am gone.

The Second way of dealing with your comment is a phrase that came from a person who stated.

GW shops in America only live as long as their lease.

This is a very true analogy on how part their business model works in the US. In my case this practice as well as the Data collected over the years, the conversations with current/ former employees as well as stock holders are another reason why I do not invest into that company. I do my research on everything that I can get before making an investment.

And in my case I would invest into a company such as Hasbro over GW.

But of course your mileage may vary

Hasbro are about 10 times as big as GW. You may as well compare them to BP.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:


There are two ways in answering this. The first way is to ask what is your investment mindset. If you are young enough (20's to 30's) you can go ahead and take chances with a company such as GW. If you are in the right place at the right time, you will be fine.

I'm an old man so my mindset is to have a stable return rate that is ahead of the inflation rate on a year to year basis.

I used Hasbro because of this. I like the yearly growth that it has,

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=HAS+Interactive#symbol=has;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Compared to GW's

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GAW.L+Interactive#symbol=gaw.l;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

GW is way too up and down for my tastes.

As I have posted previously, I'm into real estate. Both Commercial and Residential within the Western parts of the US. My portfolio is roughly 60% invested into property which I get a overall return of 8% profits per year. 25% in good old hard cash and 15% which consists of mostly Tax sheltered annuities, then federal and/or state exempt bonds. Because of my health and age I am actually consolidating my holdings and to those people who have been good to me (as well as my pets) will be taken care of financially when I am gone.

The Second way of dealing with your comment is a phrase that came from a person who stated.

GW shops in America only live as long as their lease.

This is a very true analogy on how part their business model works in the US. In my case this practice as well as the Data collected over the years, the conversations with current/ former employees as well as stock holders are another reason why I do not invest into that company. I do my research on everything that I can get before making an investment.

And in my case I would invest into a company such as Hasbro over GW.

But of course your mileage may vary

Yes, GW has had some drops and the major one being the post LotR bust. Hence my comment on my continued holding depends on the performance of the movie. This is a short term gamble based on anticipated revenue from the movie tie in. Those charts are misleading. If you compare the performance of Hasbro vs GW during GW's publicly traded existence, GW has almost always outperformed Hasbro during that period.

As for the magenta quote, how is that any different from any major corporation? Is that any more horrible than companies that set up shops in states only as long as tax breaks offered exclusively to them exist? Walmart is infamous for that and worse, but I bet you would love to have invested in them back in the 80's (in case you didn't).

The data is the data and again my mindset is different that yours. You invested in GW. I certainly did not. Good luck with your investment.

As far as the rest of your comment. I do not see Games Workshop as a tier 1 corporation. They are a niche company that have illusions of believing that they are something that they are not. From a business stand point though I can see where you are coming from as everyone tries to not to give the tax man any more coin that they have too.

There is a lot I do want to say, but I do not want to derail from the topic.

Suffice to say we agree to disagree on certain things and keep it as that.

I think it's funny that people are trying to compare GW's prices now to the prices in 2008, especially since the price hikes just 7 short months ago had increases of 17% and higher on items. It's not surprising at all that GW paid out dividends this year when they're selling the same models/codices they were last year at a 17% increase (some higher, some lower).

The prices were the main reason that I left 'the Hobby'. And the sort of money I spent on GW products could not be easily replaced with 1 or 2 new gamers. The other reason was Finecast, but no need to go into that, since I'm sure they've improved it with their cash surplus.

Lanrak wrote:
The point is Kirby is timing the crash so its just after he retires....
He is doing just enough to keep GW plc afloat, and paying good dividends (nearly doubling his £ 400 K salery each year.)

He is focusing entirely on short term profit, why should he care about the long term future of the company when he is this close to retiring?.

Wow, he works quick – a couple of pages ago he was just after a quick buck now – now he is timing it for after he retires. By the way if he is able to time the crash of the GW stock for just after he retires then he is a business genius as plenty have tried this in the past and very few succeed. Secondly this is illegal and if he did cash in and then walk away with is crashing I have no doubt he would have some very difficult questions to answer. A period in prison and your assests seized hardly make this seem worthwhile. Lets add that under Kirby the average dividend for GW has gone down (so I’m lead to believe) and I really don't get your point.

If he is “milking the company for the dividend now” then frankly he is being very silly – he could sell his stock and buy any one of hundreds of other companies who have a lower share price and pay a larger dividend granting him more cash.

If he is “Cashing in a little now whilst waiting to retire and then wreck the company” they he is gambling a lot of cash on a not very large (relative to what he has invested and what he stands to gain) payment. And again he could just as easily make the same money at another company without the potential legal complications of doing this.

 Kroothawk wrote:

silent25 wrote:
You know GW outperformed the S&P500 by over a 4 to 1 ratio over the last year as oppose to Hasbro which was essentially flat over the last year? I have owned some shares for the last year and it is the best performing stock I have and beat all the index funds (S&P500, NASDAQ, Wilshire 2000) quite handily. Though my continued holding of them relies on how the Hobbit does.

Tom Kirby's primary and only goal is to squeeze as much money out of GW into his private coffers via dividends. No wonder that GW is better at paying divdends than at marketing, quality control, raising sales and customer numbers etc.

Upon why actual data are you basing this? Have you met him? Had any conversation with him? Seen his business or personal plans? What business data are you basing this on? If, as I presume it’s falling sale numbers I again point out that we are in a recession and GW is a luxuary item you only need to buy once. You might be tempted to finish a hobby that you have already started in a recession, but few people are prepared to start a new hobby. Even supermarkets that have traded for years are making their first ever loss this year – it’s hardly surpriseing that GW has falling sales.

Whilst I do not agree with everything Kirby does your quote that his sole aim is to maximise cash for himself has no basis in fact, indeed if he didn't pay a dividend then that would probably provoke the crash that you are predicting he wants. Also see above for my comment how how he could really maximise his cash return.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:



There are two ways in answering this. The first way is to ask what is your investment mindset. If you are young enough (20's to 30's) you can go ahead and take chances with a company such as GW. If you are in the right place at the right time, you will be fine.

I'm an old man so my mindset is to have a stable return rate that is ahead of the inflation rate on a year to year basis.

I used Hasbro because of this. I like the yearly growth that it has,

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=HAS+Interactive#symbol=has;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

Compared to GW's

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GAW.L+Interactive#symbol=gaw.l;range=my;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;

GW is way too up and down for my tastes.

As I have posted previously, I'm into real estate. Both Commercial and Residential within the Western parts of the US. My portfolio is roughly 60% invested into property which I get a overall return of 8% profits per year. 25% in good old hard cash and 15% which consists of mostly Tax sheltered annuities, then federal and/or state exempt bonds. Because of my health and age I am actually consolidating my holdings and to those people who have been good to me (as well as my pets) will be taken care of financially when I am gone.

The Second way of dealing with your comment is a phrase that came from a person who stated.

GW shops in America only live as long as their lease.

This is a very true analogy on how part their business model works in the US. In my case this practice as well as the Data collected over the years, the conversations with current/ former employees as well as stock holders are another reason why I do not invest into that company. I do my research on everything that I can get before making an investment.

And in my case I would invest into a company such as Hasbro over GW.

But of course your mileage may vary

A reasonable argument, and I can see your point. I invest in GW partly for a return, but am fortunate enough that a few years ago I can up with a £3m idea and don't really need the cash too much. I got 10,000 shares in GW (and a similar number in other companies) either because I think what they are doing is for the benefit of mankind or because it's something I enjoy and wanted to "give back". It also helps a little that I am only 29 and can afford a little fluctuation in the prices for now.

However, I am sure you will agree, as a shareholder yourself, that their is a big difference between paying a dividend and running the business into the ground for your own personal profit.

I think it more likely Kirby will fill his pockets in dividends whilst cutting costs to the bones (margins have already increased and new design philosophy will increase this) and price jacking which we have seen the first of the new pricing structure with the hobbit. Once share prices and dividends are at the maximum he can drive we will probably see the business sold to an aggressive hedge fund which will wring cash out of it till it dies and sell its assets off.

This way Kirby lines his pockets, he gets away scot free and the customer suffers as always.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I think it more likely Kirby will fill his pockets in dividends whilst cutting costs to the bones (margins have already increased and new design philosophy will increase this) and price jacking which we have seen the first of the new pricing structure with the hobbit. Once share prices and dividends are at the maximum he can drive we will probably see the business sold to an aggressive hedge fund which will wring cash out of it till it dies and sell its assets off.

This way Kirby lines his pockets, he gets away scot free and the customer suffers as always.

This is a possibility I grant, but no more so than any other company. Lets not forget that Kirby can try to sell the company to someone else all he wants, ultimately it is the shareholders who get the final say and currently they are very happy with GW due to rising share prices and a steady, if not massive dividend payment, so if anything if this was his plan then he would be stopping the dividend so that shareholders want to sell their stock and he can buy it up himself – paying out a dividend and keeping the shareholders happy is not the way to incurage them to sell their stock to another company.

Kirby owns less then 10% of the company, as such he only get a 1 in 10 say if it can be sold on, one point that I haven’t raised in all this is the fact that if as he was coming up to retirement he started doing practises that indicated he was going to maximise his own cash and “cash in” before causing a crash the shareholders would vote him out in a flash. The major shareholders are pension funds and such who do nothing but monitor their investments for dodgy dealing and I have no doubt they would pick up on anything untoward.

I think that at the end of the hobbit bubble there may be a few traders willing to get out while GW stock is high, and they don't need everyone willing to sell just enough to force a buy out.

Dividends would have to be paid up to that period to keep Kirby in charge and to line his nest.

This would be the worst result for GW customers, I can just as likely see Kirby retire the business does nothing radical and slowly dwindles away to a shadow of its former self.

Maybe their is a clever way to fund a community buy out via kickstarter? Who knows, plus no guarantee you wouldn't end up with a muppet in charge anyway lol

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I think that at the end of the hobbit bubble there may be a few traders willing to get out while GW stock is high, and they don't need everyone willing to sell just enough to force a buyout.

Dividends would have to be paid up to that period to keep Kirby in charge and to line his nest.

True, I also expect a few traders to pull out when the hobbit bubble bursts, but lets not forget that the big 3 share holders own 46% of the business. Any takeover would thus pretty much need the agreement of all 3 of these, so any other investors pulling out isn’t really going to make too much difference. Unless you are implying one of the big three pulls out completely (or mostly) – but I only see that happening if there is a major catastrophe and in that situation a buyout might be best anyway.

I’m also fairly confident from what I have been told about the way that they are handling the Hobbit this time around that they have learnt their lessons from the LOTR game and are fully prepared for the bubble to burst and aren’t expecting people to play The Hobbit then start on Warhammer/40k (which was one of the major expectations of LOTR)

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I can just as likely see Kirby retire the business does nothing radical and slowly dwindles away to a shadow of its former self.

Maybe their is a clever way to fund a community buy out via kickstarter? Who knows, plus no guarantee you wouldn't end up with a muppet in charge anyway lol

This is a possibility with any company however – everyone has to run with the times or get left behind. Besides which if this did happen it would not be caused by “Kirby lining his pockets” or dividends being paid.

I did consider setting up a hedge fund via kickstarter at one point, but then realised that I wouldn’t have anything tangible to give to investors as a reward. Like it or not Kickstarter has stopped being an “invest in my idea” place and is really just a shop to pre-order stuff.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
I think that at the end of the hobbit bubble there may be a few traders willing to get out while GW stock is high, and they don't need everyone willing to sell just enough to force a buy out.

Dividends would have to be paid up to that period to keep Kirby in charge and to line his nest.

This would be the worst result for GW customers, I can just as likely see Kirby retire the business does nothing radical and slowly dwindles away to a shadow of its former self.

Maybe their is a clever way to fund a community buy out via kickstarter? Who knows, plus no guarantee you wouldn't end up with a muppet in charge anyway lol

Tom Kirby was a rich man when he took GW pubic more than a decade ago, I would imagine that his many nest are more than lined at this point.

I'm not sure why you expect Kirby retiring to be the be all and end all? If GW are as diabolical at business as all the experts here imagine then his going can surely only be a good thing?

Anyone taking up the reigns at that point will have a point to prove and look to reinvigorate the company certainly if it is on a downturn. Now if GW has been run into the ground the new head will naturally be the one that identifies this illegal behaviour - reason enough for Kirby not to do it if the scrutiny from existing pension fund owners did not already detect this supposed behaviour.

The main issue I have with the dividends is that a lot o it is coming at the expense of reduced quality, a lot of design is being compromised to reduce sprue count and cut costs. If this was done to help freeze pricing (they're never actually going to cut prices after all) then this would be fine in my opinion. when it's done alongside rising prices to fund a dividend then I find it somewhat objectionable.

Reduce service, reduce quality, increase price.

That is not a model I'm fond of. Though I seems to be GWs mantra of late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@notprop when Kirby retires your assuming that GW can attract a good replacement. With so much rigid infrastructure in place with licensing, commercial properties, manufacturing et al it would be immensely difficult for someone to come in and refresh the company. GW is like an oil tanker, it may be the biggest boat in the pond but it takes ages to turn and may run aground before it makes it. There are lots of vibrant, flexible upcoming business which would be very attractive to someone who actually wants to make a mark in the industry.

Money talks, you intimate that Kirby is reaping it in. Why wouldn't A.N.other be attracted to do the same?

I don't think that GW would struggle to attract a new CEO of quality. They are one of those stand out businesses - a British Manufacturing success that will attract people even if they see it as an easy ride.

And way are dividends reducing quality? That's a massive stretch.

A poor launch of Finecast aside i'm not seeing a downturn in quality of product. The toy like nature of some of the big kits while not my cup of tea isn't a reduction in quality.

UNCLEBADTOUCH wrote:
The main issue I have with the dividends is that a lot o it is coming at the expense of reduced quality, a lot of design is being compromised to reduce sprue count and cut costs. If this was done to help freeze pricing (they're never actually going to cut prices after all) then this would be fine in my opinion. when it's done alongside rising prices to fund a dividend then I find it somewhat objectionable.

Reduce service, reduce quality, increase price.

That is not a model I'm fond of. Though I seems to be GWs mantra of late.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@notprop when Kirby retires your assuming that GW can attract a good replacement. With so much rigid infrastructure in place with licensing, commercial properties, manufacturing et al it would be immensely difficult for someone to come in and refresh the company. GW is like an oil tanker, it may be the biggest boat in the pond but it takes ages to turn and may run aground before it makes it. There are lots of vibrant, flexible upcoming business which would be very attractive to someone who actually wants to make a mark in the industry.

Whilst I agree that the quality of Finecast is very bad I think the quality of the actual design of the models has vastly improved of late, but that is just a personal choice – the models are more in the style I “like” Though I do think (hope) that you will agree that – miscasts aside – the detail on the models is much improved, even if you don’t like the newer designs.

I fully agree GW has shot themselves in the foot with Finecast and would be best suited admitting they got it wrong and finding another type of resin, but I’m not privy to the deal they have with the makers of Finecast and the cost of pulling out and switching to someone else may be prohibitive. As a point of interest, I read somewhere that part of the rising model cost is due to the fact that they have so many unusable castings with Finecast that they are literally throwing away the savings on metal, have no idea if this is true - it was just something I read.

Yes prices have risen, and the quality of the material of the product has fallen, but the quality of the design has – I believe – improved, also the dividend has fallen so although prices have risen the shareholders are getting less than they were before – therefore the argument that the rising prices are going to fund shareholders is incorrect.

Shock horror I'm not referring to finecast lol we all know the failings there so wasn't referring to that. In a lot if the new plastics you can see where detail has been smudged and the model deformed so that it can be in less pieces, hobbit goblins are a prime example they lack necks and ears are blended into shoulders. Also some kits have been oversimplified an example being the wall if martyrs, it would have been exceptionally easy to provide attachable detail panels however they chose to fudge it to save material and number if sprues. These are examples of reduction in quality for the sake of cost cutting which isn't passed onto the consumer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@notprop GW is not high enough profile for a top level CEO if they throw big bucks at it they will only attract fat bloated old CEOs on there way out to retirement that just want an easy pay check like they currently have rather than attracting someone who will actively drive the company forwards.

I don't think GW is being run into the ground.

The evidence of the past decade is that the LoTR boom led to them getting fat and lazy, as they admitted.

They needed to rationalise the business, which they have done by getting rid of Bitz, improving the way retail is organised, EPOS, more web sales, and so on.

The effects have been shown in their improving financial results in the past couple of years.

I do think they may have a long term problem if they piss off enough veterans, assuming that veterans are important to the recruitment of new young customers. That may be a false assumption, though.

However, while I believe they have been suffering a long term decline of customers, we can't be sure that is caused by the pissed off vet situation, or that it will continue.