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so, most of the Tactics i find seem to point to useing marines as defensive foot soldiers, but I need advice on how to play offensively.

also: happy 70th topic to me

Yeah, I'm having that issue myself. When I try to go aggressive, I get hosed. I've tried deepstriking into my opponents deployment, but all that seems to do is draw every shot, and I lose those (often expensive) units before they are able to do much.

"Shooty" offensive Marines can do well.

Once you start to push and shove in CC alot of times marines will start to lose.

well, explain how shooty marines work, would you kindly?

two words: drop pods

Easy way to make them more effective is to give your opponent a more pressing target. Running 3 drop pods 1 empty, 2 with iron clad dreads has worked well for me in the past. Drop the dreads right in your opponents lines first turn and let them do what they do. This allows your expensive shooting marines a chance to get into better position to unleash hell. This has worked well for me in the past, all depends on how you want to use them though.

A few nice units-
Sternguard Droppod Meltacide. 10x Combimeltas! any av14 or 13 dies quite fast. Kantor makes them better! (slipping my mind, Can kantor take command squad? if so, take a 5x melta command squad in a pod)
Scout snipers-
I have around 30 of these guys, and they do me wonders, and they got a little better on the offensive side. 10 and tellion is pretty awesome.
Ranger dreads- Dreads with two twin linked autocannons.
Drop pods are you friends. Always run an odd amount
(Protip- Use solo cups and plasticard. can make a good drop pod for like a dollar)

Shooty marines in general are a very good build. Especially with the changes in 6th. Vidicators, predators, tac squads with heavy weapons. Razorbacks, Sternguard and command squads.

They're very strong.

Deep striking Dreadnoughts and Sterngard on the first turn are strong while the rest of your army light them up.

Marines can put down more fire power than Tau. Which is sad, when you think about it.

For assaulty, especially against dedicated assault races, means stretching the codex and playng smart.

Firstly refuse a flank whenever possible. Overwatch only goes off once and ganging up always works well, so charge each enemy unit with two of yours, which means being smart with your manoeuvre.

Be sneaky. Remember cerebrus launcher reduces LD by 2. That is massive. The difference between beating 7 and 9 on 2d6 is exponential because your sliding down the other side of the normal distribution. So even though the combat power of 5 CCW scouts is limited, charging 5 scouts from your 'nerfed' LSS to compliment another beast unit like termis works beautifully. With luck your opponent will largely ignore the scouts who can then sweeping advance.

Final thought is jump packs got a buff. Im yet to play with the idea yet im thinking JP relic artificier captain with JP libby with a crack at invisibility. Libby brings force sword AP3 goodness, Capt brings S6 AP3 and your SGT can take something suitably brutal, or naked and accept exasperated opponent challenges, and you have a unit that can dish out significant hurt whilst moving rapidly around.

Chew it over and i think if you want to go assaulty vanilla you will crack it. Not orc style but with the right mix of cunning and codex capability.

Vanguard are beasts. Always have been. Accept they are expensive but damn they get the job done.

hmm, alright, thanks!


what are some good examples of shooty stuff? and what about a 10 man assault squad in a land raider?

Shooty Units:

Autocannon Dreads
Predators w/ Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsons
Speeders w/ Typhoon MIssiles (which hide pretty well behind Predators)
Thunderfire Cannon
and of course ML 's in the Tactical Squads
Devastators are sadly too expensive..

Sternguard Veterans are awesome always...
In my last game a unit of 10 Grey Knight terminators came across them (within 12 ") and they vaporised in a cloud of metla and plasma (9 combi-bolters unleashed at once is a marvellous sight)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiger9gamer wrote:
hmm, alright, thanks!


what are some good examples of shooty stuff? and what about a 10 man assault squad in a land raider?

I feel in this edition the Land Raider is not worth it. If you take one, you take it with assault termies and it is a point sink...
A 10-man assault squad is nice as a counter-charge unit to protect your lines or intercept ememies

hmmmm okay, thanks! yea, the land raider does seem iffy in today's meta...

Vangaurd Vets Heroic Intervention

I run Dark Angels, my offensive contingent consists of Ravenwing and Deep Striking Deathwing; I think you could simulate that with a biker army, Land Speeders, and Scout Bikes to tote the teleport homers in for Assault Terminators.

Here's how I would build hyper-offensive SMs:

vulkan
dread- mm, heavy flamer, drop pod, locator beacon
dread- mm, heavy flamer,drop pod, locator beacon
5x terminators- TH/SS
tac squad- mm, melta, combi-melta, drop pod
tac squad- mm, melta, combi-melta, drop pod
tac squad- mm, flamer,combi-flamer, drop pod
tac squad- mm, flamer, combi-flamer, drop pod
2x land speeders- mm, heavy flamers
2x land speeders- mm, heavy flamers
2x land speeders- mm, heavy flamers

This is a 5th Ed. list, but with minimal changes I believe it should still work quite nicely. I think that's in the ballpark of 1500 points. Season to taste.

Why build shooty assault units though? You would do better with delaying tactics. Sacrificing units in assault, falling back with combat tactics, shooting more.

Once you get into assault you lose all your special weapon power and most things are just going to tear tactical marines a new orifice.

not assaulty, I just want to know how to get in peoples face an shoot them.

Tiger9gamer wrote:not assaulty, I just want to know how to get in peoples face an shoot them.

See my previous post. The entire army gets right up in your opponent's face and shoots them with flamers and melta. Twin-linked.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:not assaulty, I just want to know how to get in peoples face an shoot them.

See my previous post. The entire army gets right up in your opponent's face and shoots them with flamers and melta. Twin-linked.

I like the list, but I'd probably drop the termies and one of the MM/HF SPeeder squadrons and try to fit in some sternguard w pod and a Storm Talon.

Getting in their face and using ranged fire does not make a lot of sense. Conventional wisdom w ranged is engage at max range and whittle down as they approach.

Pods in the face is different due rapid fire and short melta range requiring you sacrifice your range. It makes sense to do but not optimal.

After reading the thread I decided to come up with a force based on regular old boltgun marine aggression.

HQ Librarian 100
Elite Sternguard x5 2x combimelta 125
Troops Tactical squad x10 meltagun, multimelta 175
Troops Tactical squad x10 meltagun, multimelta 175
Troops Tactical squad x10 plasma gun, lascannon 190
Troops Tactical squad x10 plasma gun, lascannon 190
Fast Attack Assault squad x10 flamer x2, power fist 235
Fast Attack Stormtalon typhoon missiles, assault cannon 155
Fast Attack Stormtalon typhoon missiles, assault cannon 155
1500

Combat squads divided as follows:

4 tactical squads:
4 x 5 boltguns(sgt)
2x [1 multimelta + 1 meltagun +3 boltguns]
2x [3 boltguns + plasmagun + lascannon]

assault squad
1 power fist + 4 bolt pistol/chainsword
2 flamers + 3 bolt pistol/chainsword

total of 56 marine bodies, 11 units.

The idea is to stay in rapid fire range and recieve assaults, fall back, and push forward. The flyers really add a punch to this. This many marine bodies will have a displacing effect, and the stormtalon should be able to get some really opportunistic shots off. Otherwise they are a great anti-flyer unit. With some practice i could see this really being a strong force.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Yeah, I'm having that issue myself. When I try to go aggressive, I get hosed. I've tried deepstriking into my opponents deployment, but all that seems to do is draw every shot, and I lose those (often expensive) units before they are able to do much.

This is because you are not committing. A squad of terminators will get taken down when a whole army shoots at them. They need support.

For eg, scout bikes w locator deploy close, bring pod of sternguard and gate over terms, both on the scout locator and usually on your opponents weak flank. Watch them forget their game strategy and scramble to respond.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Tiger9gamer wrote:not assaulty, I just want to know how to get in peoples face an shoot them.

See my previous post. The entire army gets right up in your opponent's face and shoots them with flamers and melta. Twin-linked.

I like the list, but I'd probably drop the termies and one of the MM/HF SPeeder squadrons and try to fit in some sternguard w pod and a Storm Talon.

I think Vulkan armies do best when they ignore taking Flyers of their own and just spam meltas. A twin-linked multi-melta is quite good against Flyers, Snap Fire or no Snap Fire.

Loricatus Aurora wrote:Getting in their face and using ranged fire does not make a lot of sense. Conventional wisdom w ranged is engage at max range and whittle down as they approach.

Then you'll note that the entire list is TL melta & flamers. Maximum range is right in their face.

 Loricatus Aurora wrote:
Getting in their face and using ranged fire does not make a lot of sense. Conventional wisdom w ranged is engage at max range and whittle down as they approach.
Pods in the face is different due rapid fire and short melta range requiring you sacrifice your range. It makes sense to do but not optimal.

I take it you've never faced a proper Vulkan list before. A bit overdone I feel, but that's only because it's so damned effective, and (arguably!) the best build the Codex has to offer.

Deleting rude comment

I think for the feel you're going for the key is probably effective rapid-fire, especially if you're packing plasma. One idea would be what's already been suggested, and use drop pods...a lot of drop pods. The other option is to combat squad all your tactical marines and move the full 6" every turn, shooting normally until you're in rapid-fire range. Regardless, you hold there and hope while unloading at 12". The important thing is that you have as many separate units as possible...each of your opponent's units can only shoot at one of yours, which will minimize the effects of massed shooting units unloading on you in return. And you know no fear, so even if a squad fails a morale check it's not out of the fight. Take a lot of tactical marines, with some devastators to to sit back and provide support as well as some land speeders to give you more close-in heavy weapons support.

greyknight12 wrote:
I think for the feel you're going for the key is probably effective rapid-fire, especially if you're packing plasma. One idea would be what's already been suggested, and use drop pods...a lot of drop pods. The other option is to combat squad all your tactical marines and move the full 6" every turn, shooting normally until you're in rapid-fire range. Regardless, you hold there and hope while unloading at 12". The important thing is that you have as many separate units as possible...each of your opponent's units can only shoot at one of yours, which will minimize the effects of massed shooting units unloading on you in return. And you know no fear, so even if a squad fails a morale check it's not out of the fight. Take a lot of tactical marines, with some devastators to to sit back and provide support as well as some land speeders to give you more close-in heavy weapons support.

That sounds pretty good. I have thought of doing a foot slogging list before, but never really tried.



how about a flat out rhino rush?

More razor rush

Combat squad heavy weapon, that remains stationary

Roll 6 forward, razor fires, troops disembark 6 so now 12 forward and 24 from your board edge

If you use Rhinos/Razorbacks, just make sure you keep your original plan in mind and keep moving the marines forward after their transport is inevitably destroyed...I don't know what it is but for some reason after people get their Rhinos destroyed they change their minds and trade shots at 18" instead of closing the rest of the distance. If you're going for the rush I'd say use Rhinos and move the full 12"+6", you'll probably lose the tanks but your marines will be right where they need to be (you're doing the space marine version of the tau "fish of fury"). Using Razorbacks has the advantage being able to throw out a little extra firepower but you risk not getting your marines as close as you want on that initial move and you lose some transport capacity.