Kingdom Death : Monster - Official Kickstarter Thread

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**grefven**

Regarding the mold and casting, didn't Adam write in a comment somewhere that he is using some guy over in France?

**RiTides**

Yes- but for the resin only. He mentioned using the Super Dungeon Explore caster for the plastic (well before this current kerfuffle

).

**squall018**

@ RiTides
I guess that would make sense seeing as how the other major monsters had armor sets with them. Should have figured that out. Oh well. I'm really curious to see how the Spiducles model will turn out. That initial picture has me a little worried as it looks a little spindly, but I'm hopeing it gets a little more solid in the final build.

**Grot 6**

Zweischneid wrote:
kilcin wrote:
@Endtransmission I'm wondering if you are referring to Sedition Wars because the "brains" behind that is Studio McVey which is based in the UK and sending off the European orders while CMoN does the US. So hardly a distributor for CMoN in the UK.

Yeah, but they also seem to offer no-import-VAT shipping on Soda Pop / Relic Knights. So it looks like they have someone (might just be McVey returning the favour?)

kilcin wrote:

@Grot6 That's a bit of a weird response since all CMoN is doing is getting some more attention for the kickstarter; they are not planning, controlling or taking over in regards to the actual game. They are just getting the word out in regards to Kingdom Death, which they have done for years. I just feel your beef with CMoN should not hamper your support for KD:M; in the end though it's your money.

Probably just wanted to quit either way. Better to quit with a bit of internet-drama than quit silently. It is hard to believe that this was the only thing that swayed the opinion from "fantastic-must-have-it" to "no-way". It might just be the final straw / opportunity for someone not happy with it for many reasons.

Internet drama. Yeah, thats me alright.

The next time you spout off like this, I think I might try something new and report you for being insulting.

R Tides hit it dead on the head and with more civility and honestly more tactly then I honestly care to muster for Cool Mini or Not. My issues have more to do with them using kickstarter as thier own private playground, while at the same time reaping the rewards for nothing other then throwing thier name behind something.
As to MY issue with the project? I left it at Good Luck, and tried to keep a steady discussion steady. HOW exactly that is "Internet Drama", is something you are going to have to educate me on.

They want to have CMON come in on the sideline and put out figures, yet we are supposed to fund it? How exactly does it not now become just another extra way to get cash out of my pocket?

Instead of gaining my goodwill, you gain my contempt when you treat me like a shill.

Oh, and By and By-
Cyp, had Mongoose NOT handled thier KS as they did, YOU would not have had a customer. ( In fact, I honestly think you wouldn't have a few.) I am an example of one of them.

**Cyporiean**

Grot 6 wrote:

Oh, and By and By-
Cyp, had Mongoose NOT handled thier KS as they did, YOU would not have had a customer. ( In fact, I honestly think you wouldn't have a few.) I am an example of one of them.

Whats your logic behind that?

**Lt. Coldfire**

squall018 wrote:

@ RiTides
I guess that would make sense seeing as how the other major monsters had armor sets with them. Should have figured that out. Oh well. I'm really curious to see how the Spiducles model will turn out. That initial picture has me a little worried as it looks a little spindly, but I'm hopeing it gets a little more solid in the final build.

Adam did mention somwhere that the legs were being resculpted because they were "impossibly thin".

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

squall018 wrote:

@ RiTides
I guess that would make sense seeing as how the other major monsters had armor sets with them. Should have figured that out. Oh well. I'm really curious to see how the Spiducles model will turn out. That initial picture has me a little worried as it looks a little spindly, but I'm hopeing it gets a little more solid in the final build.

Adam has sent the prototype seen earlier back to the sculptor to bulk up the legs as he realised they were too thin/fragile

so hopefully we'll be all right

**RiTides**

Yeah, I think the final Spidecules is going to look awesome

**squall018**

Gotcha, I missed that part. Thats good, as I want to be able to get all the expansions but that initial model I would have had to pass on. Hopefully we will hit the stretch goal soon and maybe be able to see some updated pics. Not to mention what will probably be the spider armor. Last time I looked we were about 13k away I believe.

**Grot 6**

Cyporiean wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:

Oh, and By and By-
Cyp, had Mongoose NOT handled thier KS as they did, YOU would not have had a customer. ( In fact, I honestly think you wouldn't have a few.) I am an example of one of them.

Whats your logic behind that?

From an honest standpoint of how I felt about them in past performance, to the stand up way in which they seem to have turned thier past slump around and actually have improved, in both product and service.

From the past Starship Trooper debacle, to how they are now is Night and Day.

You were not associated with them at that time, or it would have honestly rubbed off on your products as well.

From what I see now? They have honestly grown up.

Had I not had the discussion, better treatment, and interaction I had on this site with them, I would not have EVER given Mongoose a second thought. had I still had that feeling, On the Lamb would have had the same connotation, by relation of the association.

There is such a thing as changing ones opinion.

**Cyporiean**

Grot 6 wrote:
Cyporiean wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:

Oh, and By and By-
Cyp, had Mongoose NOT handled thier KS as they did, YOU would not have had a customer. ( In fact, I honestly think you wouldn't have a few.) I am an example of one of them.

Whats your logic behind that?

From an honest standpoint of how I felt about them in past performance, to the stand up way in which they seem to have turned thier past slump around and actually have improved, in both product and service.

From the past Starship Trooper debacle, to how they are now is Night and Day.

You were not associated with them at that time, or it would have honestly rubbed off on your products as well.

From what I see now? They have honestly grown up.

Had I not had the discussion, better treatment, and interaction I had on this site with them, I would not have EVER given Mongoose a second thought. had I still had that feeling, On the Lamb would have had the same connotation, by relation of the association.

There is such a thing as changing ones opinion.

Fair enough. It just seems silly to judge one company/person based off a small connection.

CMON is connected to KD by way of advertising.
Mongoose is connected to OTLG because they publish an RPG written by us.

Technically we're also connected to Gangfight Games, Mantic, Games Workshop, and Wreck-Age because we share sculptors/artists.

**RiTides**

Cyp, they're also connected by manufacturing source (for plastic) and possibly publishing. Are they not also involved in fulfillment (ie packing/shipping the KS rewards)? I thought the Wired article said so.

Just talking facts here, sans drama.

**Cyporiean**

RiTides wrote:
Cyp, they're also connected by manufacturing source (for plastic) and possibly publishing. Are they not also involved in fulfillment (ie packing/shipping the KS rewards)? I thought the Wired article said so.

Just talking facts here, sans drama.

They are sharing a caster from what I understand, but that doesn't mean anything. I believe Poots has said he is packing everything himself, which is why there won't be add ons after the bell rings.

**Buzzsaw**

RiTides wrote:
Cyp, they're also connected by manufacturing source (for plastic) and possibly publishing. Are they not also involved in fulfillment (ie packing/shipping the KS rewards)? I thought the Wired article said so.

Just talking facts here, sans drama.

In the interest of being factual, what you are saying doesn't seem to jibe completely with what Adam himself presented earlier in the thread.

kingdomdeath wrote:
@RiTides,

Just so its clear. CMON has only recently been involved in the campaign and it's only to boost marketing support. We agreed to that news of the campaign would be included in 4 of their emails they send out to their fans every saturday and to doing a special miniature together.

The post on cmon front page news, the facebook and the callout from their current kickstarter Guilds of Cadwallon, were all just... unexpected bonuses! I am extremely thankful as they went above and beyond and have put their name behind me because of our partnership and they are proud of how the well the kickstarter is doing without their direct involvement.

To their credit, I will say that Chern pretty much invented this style of running kickstarter campaigns. Be it luck, or genius or a bit of both they set the trend and I am merely following it, adding my own personal touch and trying my best to stay on top of the CRAZY amount of communication it requires!

I am happy to be working with CMON and there is a chance that when the game is finally released ( after kickstarter rewards have been fulfilled ) we will look into publishing it together. Our relationship has been extremely healthy and very simple, I send them miniatures and they sell them. Nothing more complex then that, no investments and no extra dependencies.

I like the idea of my game being associated with Zombiecide, Sedition Wars & Super Dungeon Explore. They are helping bring the type of games I love into the market. Post GW's Specialist Games we had very very little in terms of quality hybrid tabletop miniature games. And now, I finally have some miniature games I have time to play with my friends on weekends. ( i do love warhammer & 40k, but i just don't have the time to dedicate to them right now )

The connection (as Adam describes it) appears rather tangential.

From what is being said, any co-publishing would not be connected to this campaign or its fulfillment.

**RiTides**

Buzzsaw, I was referring to this line from the Wired article... definitely want to be factual. Not trying to stir anything up, perhaps Adam can clarify?

Wired wrote:Even after seeing a solid six-figure haul on the horizon, Poots is still proudly independent, avoiding partners and investors. He says “I’m a one man band, though my girlfriend has been super duper supportive and has spent many of her nights packing stuff with me.” He’s also working with a publisher called “Cool Mini Or Not”, that has also had its fair share of Kickstarter success, to provide fulfillment services.

http://www.wired.com/design/2012/12/kingdom-death/

"Fulfillment services", in the Sedition Wars sense, meant that CMON was the one delivering the KS rewards. Adam mentions him and his girlfriend packing things up in the past, but I thought the next line saying CMON "to provide fulfillment services" meant just that... that CMON would fulfill the KS orders.

I'd be happy to be wrong... again, not trying to stir anything up, just the impression I got from the article.

It's also not necessarily a huge deal if that is the case, again just trying to determine the facts here...

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

I think the Wired Journalist took Adams comments about having to check on stuff with a 'production partner'

and his comment on hoping to have CMON handle the game publishing after the KS

and added them together to suggest more CMON involvement than there is (not that I'd be bothered either way, but some clearly are)

just a (perhaps understandable) journalistic overinterpreation of the facts

**squall018**

Thats how I took it as well, that CMON would be the one sending out the rewards and packaging it and what not. I really didn't think much of it.

**Buzzsaw**

RiTides wrote:
Buzzsaw, I was referring to this line from the Wired article... definitely want to be factual. Not trying to stir anything up, perhaps Adam can clarify?

Wired wrote:Even after seeing a solid six-figure haul on the horizon, Poots is still proudly independent, avoiding partners and investors. He says “I’m a one man band, though my girlfriend has been super duper supportive and has spent many of her nights packing stuff with me.” He’s also working with a publisher called “Cool Mini Or Not”, that has also had its fair share of Kickstarter success, to provide fulfillment services.

http://www.wired.com/design/2012/12/kingdom-death/

"Fulfillment services", in the Sedition Wars sense, meant that CMON was the one delivering the KS rewards. Adam mentions him and his girlfriend packing things up in the past, but I thought the next line saying CMON "to provide fulfillment services" meant just that... that CMON would fulfill the KS orders.

I'd be happy to be wrong... again, not trying to stir anything up, just the impression I got from the article.

With due respect, you are relying on a technical interpretation of a 3rd hand statement (you'll note that the mention of "fulfillment services" is not a direct quote, but rather a representation of the reporter's impression) against a clear and direct firsthand statement.

So when you say "I'd be happy to be wrong", Adam has specifically addressed the extent of C'MoN's involvement (addressed specifically to you!), as "only recently been involved in the campaign and it's only to boost marketing support", with a possibility of collaboration at the retail level (not the kickstarter level).

You are, of course, permitted to do with your money as you will, I'm merely perplexed as to what you would like to see beyond what Adam has said.

**RiTides**

Buzzsaw, I think the line you underlined refers to the campaign itself, then publishing. It doesn't say they won't fulfill the KS rewards, just that they might publish together. I just took it like squall018 did, and I don't think Adam addressed this clearly... or maybe I'm just misunderstanding him.

This had nothing to do with me or my money, not sure why you mention that (I've mentioned I love KD many times, even if I'm not backing this).

I'm just discussing who is fulfilling the KS rewards... to me it's a separate discussion and I think pretty relevant. Your quotes of Adam say nothing on fulfillment either way, so hopefully he'll clarify. I think thousands of boxes with different contents might be too much for Adam and his girlfriend to pack, since I believe he's stated he has shipped 500 boxes the whole time he had operated KD. So that interpretation makes sense to me. You're free to disagree, of course...

**Alpharius**

I'm also not sure why it is a big deal either way, or if one or two people have stated that they're backing out now that the CMON 'connection' has been... revealed?

The campaign is still doing very well, and there doesn't appear to be a mass exodus from it either.

So... it might be time to open up a separate discussion in Dakka Discussions about CMON and Kickstarter, maybe?

**RiTides**

Agreed Alph. I just wanted to post to see if CMON is doing fulfillment, or not, as that's relevant here. No knowing until Adam posts.

Time to go back to talking about Spidecules and spider armor

**Buzzsaw**

Alpharius wrote:
I'm also not sure why it is a big deal either way, or if one or two people have stated that they're backing out now that the CMON 'connection' has been... revealed?

The campaign is still doing very well, and there doesn't appear to be a mass exodus from it either.

So... it might be time to open up a separate discussion in Dakka Discussions about CMON and Kickstarter, maybe?

That may be best, as I must confess to being rather confused as to what it is people actually want. RiTides mentions that "I'd be happy to be wrong..." but about what I have no idea. The connections between KD and C'MoN seem entierly minor, so minor that I am unclear why one would be bothered by them now, but presumably not by the fact that C'MoN has a long-standing commercial relationship with Adam.

Insofar as he has had long-term partners, C'MoN has always been one.

RiTides wrote:
Agreed Alph. I just wanted to post to see if CMON is doing fulfillment, or not, as that's relevant here. No knowing until Adam posts.

Forgive me for belaboring the point, beyond the issue of whether this was sufficiently addressed, I'm still unclear why this matters? I don't mean that facetiously, my interactions with C'MoN have been quick and professional, is this a "Rob Lane" sort of situation where they are responsible for some prior malfeasance that makes them the subject of suspicion?

**RiTides**

Well, I think you're reading into my posts what isn't there!

I was referring to what we were discussing- that I'd be happy to be wrong about CMON fulfilling this KS, per the Wired article. I'm not sure where your language is coming from... it's simply that that would not be minor involvement, obviously.

I'll only be posting about models from here on in, as continuing to speculate is fruitless until Afam clarifies who is fulfilling the KS.

**Buzzsaw**

RiTides wrote:
Well, I think you're reading into my posts what isn't there!

I was referring to what we were discussing- that I'd be happy to be wrong about CMON fulfilling this KS, per the Wired article. I'm not sure where your language is coming from... it's simply that that would not be minor involvement, obviously.

I'll only be posting about models from here on in, as continuing to speculate is fruitless until Afam clarifies who is fulfilling the KS.

Again, sorry to keep bringing this up, but why would this be important? I'm honestly unclear what problem is feared would result from any degree of secondary involvement.

Seriously, did C'MoN do something that isn't common knowledge that I ought to know about here? I'm kinda spending a lot of money on his thing, I don't want to find out I'm getting "Mealstromed"*, as it were.

EDIT: * As in Maelstrom Games, that is.

**RiTides**

It's only important as it would be for any KS... It's interesting! It's a fact! It's data! There's no conspiracy here

.

It would mean they're fulfilling a lot of KS, with another of theirs coming up. It's the same reason I was interested in finding out Trollforged is casting RBG, Chibi miniatures KS, Imbrian Arts, and their own KS. And maybe even weapons for Kingdom Death! It's just good to know what is queued up for who to do, that's it

So... Spidecules is getting unlocked today, right?

**kilcin**

RiTides wrote:
It's only important as it would be for any KS... It's interesting! It's a fact! It's data! There's no conspiracy here .

It would mean they're fulfilling a lot of KS, with another of theirs coming up. It's the same reason I was interested in finding out Trollforged is casting RBG, Chibi miniatures KS, Imbrian Arts, and their own KS. And maybe even weapons for Kingdom Death! It's just good to know what is queued up for who to do, that's it

So... Spidecules is getting unlocked today, right?

Interesting tidbits of info indeed...

I don't think Spidecules will get unlocked today, most likely tomorrow. Now the question is, what will be the next stretch goal?

**grefven**

The next stretch goal... Mmm.. Let's hope for the Sunstalker Infant.

**squall018**

What is the sunstalker infant??? It seems I'm a little behind.

**RiTides**

He has a resin one on his site

. I'd link but I'm on my phone.

Unless you truly mean what IS it... in which case I have no idea

. What are any of his monsters, really?

**Albino Squirrel**

This does bring up what I think is a pretty MAJOR issue that needs to be clarified. Who exactly IS going to publish this game? Who is printing up all these cards and instruction manuals and the game board, who is casting the miniatures, and who is packing it all together and shipping it to fulfill all the orders?

Presumably this must be known, since you'd have to talk to these people to know how much things are going to cost to produce, which you'd need to know in order to sell the things. So Adam should probably just make it clear to everyone what companies are doing all these things. If he really doesn't know, then it really calls into question his ability to deliver on what he is promising, which is a pretty big deal. If he knows but isn't telling us, that might call into question the quality of the result. Dreamforge was pretty upfront about working with Wargames Factory which, though having some badly sculpted early figures, does clearly have a lot of experience creating plastic multi-part miniatures. Are the companies Adam plans to work with capable of producing a quality board game and miniatures? We have no idea. So it seems like knowing his intended partners in this project is pretty important.