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@RiTides, I know better than to ask what it actually is, as that would be pretty impossible in a game/ world like the one Adam has made. I'll go take a look at the site. I thought I had seen everything but must have missed that one.

@ Albino Squirrel. I can see your point, but I wouldn't get too concerned. Adam has been pretty forthcoming from everything I've seen. I understand there will always be concern with money on the line, but this project seems, at least to me, to be under control. Thats just my two cents though.

He had produced some previous plastic figures (for the Experiment of Death box set) so he has a pre-existing relationship with them

He's also exploring other options (for example Ed had mentioned he's talked to trollforged), both for the full minis and for parts of them

eg the sword on the plastic twilight knight was a bit bendy, this was in part the material, and in part because it was not designed for plastic.....

The fix for the figures for the KS could be a redesign of tricky parts (the new minis for the KS have been designed with plastic in mind, but some older figures appear as well)

OR manufacture of those parts that don't work well in PVC in an alternative material).

As to packing and shipping, Adam has that experience from running KD, and he is deliberatly not allowing trade in or other complicated stuff so it should be possible.... he can hire in help if needed

 Baragash wrote:
I wonder if the missus will let me trim back the wedding expenses.....

Kingdom Death: Monster expansions make excellent groomsmen gifts!

@OrlandotheTechnicoloured

I don't mean to come across as dismissive, but it's not a big concern of mine how Adam goes about things with regards to production. Pledging into the KS was my initial vote of confidence and support, I'm sure he's not taking these decisions lightly and by his own admission is concerned with providing a great product. I stand by my initial pledge.

I have no idea why I think this way, but I actually rather doubt we'll see the Sunstalker during this Kickstarter. Not that I dislike the Sunstalker, or really have any reason behind this, but I think I'd rather see new monsters. Perhaps because I've already seen and oggled previous monsters he's made, so I'd love to oggle new ones?

I would like to see some new monsters as well, but it would probably be easier to use some already sculpted minis. I imagine going through the process to make a brand new ones would be time consuming and this whole project is probably consuming enough of his time. I'm with you in that I'd like to see them, I just wonder how realistic it would be to get more brand new monsters.

Aren't the Dung Beetle Knight and Spidicules 'new' monsters?

Along with the Lion, the Watcher, Phoenix, etc.?

I think Adam's had this one planned for a while, so maybe we will get more 'new' monsters - I hope!

Also, we've still go to reach the King reveal, and unlock, too!

 Alpharius wrote:
Aren't the Dung Beetle Knight and Spidicules 'new' monsters?

Along with the Lion, the Watcher, Phoenix, etc.?

I think Adam's had this one planned for a while, so maybe we will get more 'new' monsters - I hope!

Also, we've still go to reach the King reveal, and unlock, too!

Yeah. Except for the Lion. http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/product/white-lion

That said, it's been on the Kingdom Death website for ages that the limited resin stuff was a way to slowly pay/fund its way to Kingdom Death game. Things probably went from vague to specific over time, but the basic notion to make a game like that seems to have been there from the start.. sometime in 2009 or so.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Aren't the Dung Beetle Knight and Spidicules 'new' monsters?

Along with the Lion, the Watcher, Phoenix, etc.?

I think Adam's had this one planned for a while, so maybe we will get more 'new' monsters - I hope!

Also, we've still go to reach the King reveal, and unlock, too!

Yeah. Except for the Lion. http://shop.kingdomdeath.com/product/white-lion

That said, it's been on the Kingdom Death website for ages that the limited resin stuff was a way to slowly pay/fund its way to Kingdom Death game. Things probably went from vague to specific over time, but the basic notion to make a game like that seems to have been there from the start.. sometime in 2009 or so.

There was a comment (sorry, I'm not sure where anymore, it's sorta blended together) that the existing lion was one of his first miniatures, and the technology used to print it left it with more printing artifacts then Adam was comfortable with. So it's possible that the lion in the actual game will not be identical to the lion previously released.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A comment on the campaign site led me to the deviantArt page of Danny Cruz, which has some very, very interesting stetches.

An early version of the Lion Knight, as well as the Looooong evolution of the Forge God and some other miniatures that I have seen over time. Very interesting to see some of the concept artists other then Lam, some really great stuff in there. (Some really creepy stuff too, FYI.)

I really like this game.

Even more so with that beetle guy.

Which one should I get that would be able to be used in the game at the later date? I'd like to get a sample guy before i make a final decision.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 kilcin wrote:
@Endtransmission I'm wondering if you are referring to Sedition Wars because the "brains" behind that is Studio McVey which is based in the UK and sending off the European orders while CMoN does the US. So hardly a distributor for CMoN in the UK.

Yeah, but they also seem to offer no-import-VAT shipping on Soda Pop / Relic Knights. So it looks like they have someone (might just be McVey returning the favour?)

CMoN are also offering UK/EU shipping for the Cadwallon game as well, so it seems like they have organised a permanent EU distribution channel for this sort of thing. If Adam is boxing everything up himself, then I completely understand not trying to jump onto this.

It's a bit sad to see people backing out because CMoN have been mentioned, or the fact that because it's making money it doesn't "need" the funding. I'm not quite sure how it's Adam's fault for coming up with something that is so popular?

 endtransmission wrote:

 Zweischneid wrote:

 kilcin wrote:
@Endtransmission I'm wondering if you are referring to Sedition Wars because the "brains" behind that is Studio McVey which is based in the UK and sending off the European orders while CMoN does the US. So hardly a distributor for CMoN in the UK.

Yeah, but they also seem to offer no-import-VAT shipping on Soda Pop / Relic Knights. So it looks like they have someone (might just be McVey returning the favour?)

CMoN are also offering UK/EU shipping for the Cadwallon game as well, so it seems like they have organised a permanent EU distribution channel for this sort of thing. If Adam is boxing everything up himself, then I completely understand not trying to jump onto this.

It's a bit sad to see people backing out because CMoN have been mentioned, or the fact that because it's making money it doesn't "need" the funding. I'm not quite sure how it's Adam's fault for coming up with something that is so popular?

Sad has nothing to do with it.

It is not about Adam at all, it is the issue of CMON being a little too greedy and acting as if they are just being altruistic, when they are multimillionaires over projects that they actually did a shoddy job of silent partnering.

In my mind that is disingenuous to the point of insulting.

Be it attitude, or implied arrogence, CMON rubs people the wrong way, and I am one of them. Especially in light that they reap over several million dollars over projects, and some of the- how shall we say -post actions have been questionable to the point where I believe that they are not using all the money for the project that they posted project for.

As I said before, I absolutly love the game to the point where this is an honest crisis of concious to me.I WANT this game, but not if CMON oozed in and does what they did with the other projects. WHY exactly am I giving someone money if all they are going to do is to put a name on it, and act like its fried gold?
CMOR already HAS the facilities to do this project, yet they are using this site as a prepaid store.
The explanation given doesn't wash in common sense either.

Supposedly, all CMON is doing is "Lending name recognition". YET they already sell KD figures on thier site, and seem to have special access. If not for the production, then for the advertising.

As I said, that kind of an attitude is one that rubs me the wrong way. Especially when you are doing one thing, and it is turing out that you are actually doing something else entirly.

Then there is the point of a bunch of these.... new backers in there. It makes me question the validity of the funding of the project, or is it that someone else is using questionable sock monkey accounts to fund the project, then later they will pick it up as thier own and sell it, themselves- thereby they reap the rewards that a single guy is going through the pains for, without having to lift a finger?

It is just me. But-
I have a bad feeling itch when it comes to CMON.

And in light of how they treated Dark Age, it is not unfounded.

And yeah, thats my issue. (If your offended- sorry, but thats how I feel.)

And to be honest- I have my money in the till, yet again, on grounds that I went back and am holding exactly where I left off at, but I am not feeling good about the project from some standpoints.

The option is always there to prove me wrong and change my mind, though.

Its about making money, I get that. I don't have to like it, but you don't have to rub my face in it, either.

Some interesting issues raised over the last page or two. I'll admit that I've no idea about any of the CMON stuff that people are talking about (Dark Ages?), but it seems to be stirring up some strong posts.

Sort of reaching my saturation point with this KS at the moment, I'll keep my pledge as it is and just have to decide which expansions I really want to get at the end. I don't think I can justify getting it all sent over at once!

@Grot 6,

Please allow me to directly address my relationship with Coolminiornot. While I understand your feelings, I cannot comment on your opinions directly. However, I am certainly happy to be as open and honest about myself, Kingdom Death & CMON.

I share an online retail partnership with CMON. They have not invested in Kingdom Death or myself, nor do they own the collective intellectual property in anyway. Over the last 3 years we have built up a relationship that is still fully confined to online retail only.

Currently I have only two partners. CMON & Full Metal Planet in japan. I have been approached by many retailers and I have even followed up myself with some of them. I tried to establish a relationship with both the Warstore and E-figures.com ( a miniature distro company ). Neither of these worked out because I have a very speciality product. I create small runs of very high end resin miniatures and I could not provide them with the volume or the discount they required. Cmon & Full Metal planet understand my needs as a one man operation trying to produce the absolute highest quality product experience he can. I offer them the exact same small discount and both of them have the same privileges and access to my available stock.

I also worked for a short while with Maelstrom games and I regret not doing more research in regards to the operation before I agreed. If there are any KD fans out there that orders my product from Maelstorm please contact me and I will personally make amends.

Resin production is expensive. I also believe that artists should be paid a healthy wage for their creative services. The cost of producing a Kingdom Death miniature is extremely high and it is very time consuming. Then the cost of each unit is also very high. Not every retailer will be sympathetic to this or understand that restocks can take monthes and not just days.

CMON has approached me many times with their publishing arrangement. I of course am not at liberty to go into the details of what it is, but I can tell you its extremely generous. Significantly more so then any other publisher I have spoken to.

My commitment is to the vision and excellence of the full experience that is Kingdom Death : Monster. I will not cut any corners nor take any partnership shortcuts if it impacts the quality in even the slightest way possible. I also do not want to bring in any partnerships that may further complicate my ability to make sure every backer gets the rewards they pledged for. In some cases this does not work out in my favor, as many international fans are upset at the shipping fee this requires. However if I am to involve an outside party, instantly things get more complicated. This means that potentially thousands of units would be shipped somewhere over seas where I have zero domain and no control over what gets packed into peoples boxes. And you know what? I don't really like that.

I've personally packed and shipped around 5,000 orders to people around the world over the last 3 years. It is a tremendous undertaking. I very much enjoy it as I like being involved in every tiny detail of the day to day… but there are some much larger responsibilities on the horizon and I need to plan for the logistics of packing / shipping many many game boxes! It's both incredible and exciting but if managing a fulfillment center absorbs all my time, I won't have the capacity to do the other things I love. Mainly the creative side, working with artists and sculptors and writing up game content.

At this point and time, CMON's involvement with the kickstarter is just, very limited marketing support. ( Actually the agreement was 4 email blasts and they already have gone above and beyond that! ) There is a chance that they will be helping me with fulfillment as I do not have the infrastructure setup at this time to handle it. However if I feel or evaluate that this will, in some even tiny way, impact the quality or reward deliverability, I will not do it. As a product owner, I am obsessed with every aspect of the "experience" it has to be perfect and anything less is not worth striving for.

In regards to a future publishing relationship with CMON, this can go a lot of ways. I am flirting with avoiding going into major distribution. There are many reasons for this and its not the time or place to bring them up, however I an say that it is because of my commitment to both quality and making sure the artists on the team are well compensated. At this time I am simply unsure what the best move for the property is. I strive to deliver the best I possibly can and to raise the established quality bar when its possible. That leave one with a lot to consider as they carefully take each step.

Kickstarter is a strange thing and as the pledged amount raises, so does my responsibility and the projects options. I take none of this lightly and while my friends and family congratulate me I sadly cannot celebrate as there is a staggering amount of work I must meet head on and expectations I must surpass. This project is my ode to the games I love and I am putting the very depths of my heart into every little bit of it. I will not compromise and I will not creatively restrict myself or the artists that work on the project in any shape or form.

Adam, thank you so much for taking the time to communicate with the community, it's much appreciated!

Whether your extensive answer is satisfactory to people with issues I cannot say, but one thing that becomes crystal clear from your situation is the scale of the task ahead of you. Looking at Kicktraq, it's very likely that (presuming steady growth and the usual ending uptick), it's entirely possible that in autumn of 2013, Kingdom Death (that is, you) will be in a position to pack and ship as many orders in a short time as through the entirety of the rest of KD's existence.

Don't envy you that job, heh.

Thanks for taking the time for clarification, Adam. Now i'm looking foward to hitting the 700k stretch goal which may very well happen later today!

So the Holiday White Speaker Nico now comes with a promo "holiday" settlement event card according to the KS homepage artwork.

A nice bonus there - should get a few more to commit, thereby driving up the pledges and making it better for all!

So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.

Albino Squirrel wrote:
So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.

I fully expect that, short of a miracle, it'll be a couple months late, but I'm fine with that...

Regarding packing, presumably the boxes/expansions will be done in a factory, not by hand, as it's not only insane, but inefficient, to have one person doing that...

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Albino Squirrel wrote:
So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.

I fully expect that, short of a miracle, it'll be a couple months late, but I'm fine with that...

Regarding packing, presumably the boxes/expansions will be done in a factory, not by hand, as it's not only insane, but inefficient, to have one person doing that...

This doesn't sound too good, and a couple of months late, then we might be talking about a year and a half before getting any items.

Funny enough, Kickstarter itself feels the need to address this!

http://www.kickstarter.com/blog/is-lateness-failure

It takes as long as it takes is my view . I am backing the kickstarter because I love his idea . Interesting article on CNN business today about how majority of Kickstarters arrive late and how even Kickstarter is trying to make folks realize it is not just an online shopfront .

grefven wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Albino Squirrel wrote:
So, wait a minute. If I understand this correctly, Adam currently has no idea how he is going to get the game produced and have the orders fulfilled? He doesn't have any partners lined up to do this? That significantly decreases my confidence that he will actually deliver what he is promising. And it sounds like he is considering packing up thousands of boxes of the game, with tens of thousands of miniatures and hundreds of thousands of cards, all by himself. This gives me absolutely no confidence in his ability to deliver on his promises. That sounds borderline delusional.

I fully expect that, short of a miracle, it'll be a couple months late, but I'm fine with that...

Regarding packing, presumably the boxes/expansions will be done in a factory, not by hand, as it's not only insane, but inefficient, to have one person doing that...

This doesn't sound too good, and a couple of months late, then we might be talking about a year and a half before getting any items.

I don't know what you're talking about/what you think I was saying.

I was saying that, given its success, as I've seen with other very successful kickstarters, I expect a realistic delay, and that an established (though small) operation won't screw up immensely.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Adam, thank you so much for taking the time to communicate with the community, it's much appreciated!

Whether your extensive answer is satisfactory to people with issues I cannot say, but one thing that becomes crystal clear from your situation is the scale of the task ahead of you. Looking at Kicktraq, it's very likely that (presuming steady growth and the usual ending uptick), it's entirely possible that in autumn of 2013, Kingdom Death (that is, you) will be in a position to pack and ship as many orders in a short time as through the entirety of the rest of KD's existence.

Don't envy you that job, heh.

I too really appreciate the thorough response.

However, from what you said about fulfillment and packing center, etc, it sounds as if you've been leaning towards having CMON do this for some time, and are even planning on it, unless something changes.

This is fine, I just wish you'd been upfront about that aspect. It makes it much more like a Sedition Wars type campaign on the back end. Which again, is fine. I do wonder, though, if the idea was to avoid "CMON Kickstarter fatigue" by not mentioning that they will likely be doing fulfillment at the start.

Facts are good, thank you for the informative post on your (still evolving) plans! More information sooner is Always better, so it's good to reveal this now instead of after the campaign ends.

@ Mr Poots. Thanks for the informative and detailed post, that's the sort of thing that goes a long way in my book.

A commenter on the campaign page (Matt Dorangricchia) compiled this list of what is now in the basic game;

Here's what I've got for what you get for a Survivor level pledge with no extras.

Base Game

27 ( + 12 ) = 39 Total, unique highly detailed plastic miniatures ( following this is a quick list of the miniature break down )
Full Color Story & Rule Book (Kingsmen Painting Tutorial added @ $625K)
2' x 3' Game board
6, 10 Sided Dice
1 6 Sided Hit Location Die
100 2"x2" Gear Cards
75+ Monster AI Cards
75+ Monster Hit Location Cards
75+ Resource Cards
25 Innovation Cards
10 Location Tiles
Survivor Record Sheets
Settlement Record Sheets
10 Stone Face Base Inserts

Miniatures included in the base game:

4 Starting Survivor miniatures
4 Armor Kits: rawhide, lion, leather, phoenix. Each kit is two female and two male models with interchangeable parts.
7 Monsters - Lion, Phoenix, Antelope, Butcher, Kingsmen, Kings Hand, Watcher

Upgrades to every game box:

+ Unarmored armor kit, two male and two female miniatures (55k)
+ All new Lantern armor kit, two male and two female miniatures (140k)
+ All new Fur Armor kit, two male and two female miniatures ( 285k)
+ Two New Weapons for the Lion Armor Kit (350k)
+Stone Face Base Inserts +$10

Upgrades to Survivor eligible game boxes:

+ 1 extra Rawhide armor kits, two female and two male (unlocked @ 80k)
+ 1 Plastic Phoenix (unlocked @105k)
+ 1 Plastic Watcher (unlocked @185k)
+ 1 extra Phoenix armor kits, two female and two male (unlocked @200k)
+ A regiment of Kingsmen, x5 models (unlocked @$225k)
+ 1 plastic Paul the Survivor (unlocked @275k)
+ 1 extra Lion armor kits, two female and two male (unlocked @350K)
+ 1 plastic Aya the Survivor (unlocked @400K)
+ Added content/extra heads for Adam and Anna (unlocked @420K)
+ 4 Starting Survivor Heads (unlocked @475k)

I think that's everything. Awesome amount of content for the pledge!

I would only add to that exhaustive list the reminder that the game basic pledge is $100, and Survivor level is $155.

only about 2,600$ away from the Spiducles stretch goal. Its been a pretty slow day, but I imagine we should hit that by the end of the day. Any guesses as to whats next?

Thank you for your response. I appreceate your position, and hope it goes well for you.

My issues/ concerns with the project are that you will end up having to rely on CMON to the extent that they are eventually going to take over the property and you end up outgunned and overwhelmed by a corperate entity.
One that on the surface seems quite happy on riding coat tails of one or two man operations who are struggleing through the actions, then taking credit where it isn't due on the conclusions of popular kickstarter projects.

If my issues with this project are unreasonable, I'm sorry to have brought them up.

 Grot 6 wrote:
Thank you for your response. I appreceate your position, and hope it goes well for you.

My issues/ concerns with the project are that you will end up having to rely on CMON to the extent that they are eventually going to take over the property and you end up outgunned and overwhelmed by a corperate entity.
One that on the surface seems quite happy on riding coat tails of one or two man operations who are struggleing through the actions, then taking credit where it isn't due on the conclusions of popular kickstarter projects.

If my issues with this project are unreasonable, I'm sorry to have brought them up.

They sound quite unreasonable to me. It would be like saying that I won't support the KD KS because the world will end 21th december.