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I was wondering what Dakka thought about the difference between Vets and Regular Infantry for IG. I'm new to IG and used to Orks, so I thought it would be more effective to fill my troops with regular infantry (and have more) over having Vets (and have less) in a larger point battle. Money isn't an issue (because it's warhammer and I've accepted it) so buying more shock troops to fill the roster isn't a problem. and I know Vets have a 3+ BS over the 4+ of normal guys, but with the 5+ save they die the same as the rest of them.

So despite my rambling, In your experience (to IG players or people that have played extensively against different IG armies) is it more effective to have many regular Infantry or smaller groups of Vets?

It depends a lot on what you are going for. Platoons can be built to be very effective. Veterans are popular because they have a very solid BS and lots of gun upgrades and can make the army much cheaper in terms of $$$ to buy and fewer models to build, paint and transport.

Veterans armies are generally built around mid-to-short range shooting, 24" and under. They can take a heavy weapon but typically don't so they can make the most of those 3 specials, 99% of the time either 3 plasma guns or 3 melta guns, as flamers waste the BS4 of the unit and grenade launchers don't pack the punch for what you pay for the unit. They will tend to take greater notice of casualties than a platoon army as their infantry aren't really any more survivable (can be made somewhat more so through upgrades but not significantly moreso) and there are usually much fewer of them, but they pack a greater punch.

Platoon armies tend to be longer ranged with more heavy weapons. You'll see more grenade launchers here due to the lower unit cost and decent synergy with stuff like autocannons. The platoon is much more built around heavy than special weapons typically, and will focus on destroying the opponent (especially their big things) from the other side of the board rather than waiting for them to get halfway across, and will rely more on S3 lasgun fire to engage infantry than the veterans will. The platoon based army usually can't pack the punch the veterans do at close range, but are much better at putting out long range heavy weapons fire and casualties will not feel very painful (ha...you killed 30 guys in one round of combat, it's cute you think they mattered...). Heavy Weapons squads can add some punch but are also relatively easily engaged and destroyed as any S6+ weapons can ID each model and one S6+ wound that makes it through forces an LD7 morale test, though there are ways of mitigating this.

TL;DR Veterans are for 24" and under with lots of AP1/2 guns, casualties hurt more but damage output very high at optimal ranges. Platoons are better at engaging the enemy from across the board with lots of long range heavy weapons, but don't have quite the same optimum damage output though casualties also matter less.

Infantry platoon = giant horde that sits on in your deployment zone (preferably behind an aegis line) and puts out a token amount of fire from autocannons/lascannons while ensuring that your opponent can't kill your scoring units fast enough to get them off the objectives before the game ends.

Veteran squad = glass cannon delivery system for 3x melta or 3x plasma with 7x wound counters to jump in front of bullets and save the weapons. Always given a Chimera or Vendetta transport (or Hades drill if you use FW stuff) and usually used aggressively to deliver the melta/plasma to its target.

So, if you want a gunline, take a platoon. If you want to shove a bunch of melta/plasma down your opponent's throat and hope that you have a scoring unit left standing in the ruins of your opponent's army, take veteran squads.

Yeah, you can really do either, it just depends on what style you want.

You want vets in flyers.

Fact.

 Peregrine wrote:
Infantry platoon = giant horde that sits on in your deployment zone (preferably behind an aegis line) and puts out a token amount of fire from autocannons/lascannons while ensuring that your opponent can't kill your scoring units fast enough to get them off the objectives before the game ends.

Veteran squad = glass cannon delivery system for 3x melta or 3x plasma with 7x wound counters to jump in front of bullets and save the weapons. Always given a Chimera or Vendetta transport (or Hades drill if you use FW stuff) and usually used aggressively to deliver the melta/plasma to its target.

So, if you want a gunline, take a platoon. If you want to shove a bunch of melta/plasma down your opponent's throat and hope that you have a scoring unit left standing in the ruins of your opponent's army, take veteran squads.

agreed

Thanks for all the Advice guys, I think I'm going to outfit some Vets (with plasma/melta) and take them in a transport (Most likely a flyer), but keep most of my guys as regular Infantry Platoons, because it fits my style better.

good luck and have fun

how effective is using both, like a few platoons to gunline and then sending some vets forward to objective claim and general blasting? Ive done it a couple of times and it seems reason able, i think i just need to not take so much artillery, since i hit my vets a few times. Or is it a better case to go all vets or all platoons?

generalchaos34 wrote:
how effective is using both

Not very effective. By splitting your units you give up target saturation. Chimeras are fragile and veterans die instantly to anything, so your only hope of keeping them alive is to have so many AV 12 vehicles on the table that your opponent can't kill them all fast enough. Likewise, a single infantry blob is just a good bolter target. 2000 points of infantry, on the other hand, makes every LC/AC/etc in your opponent's army worthless, and puts so many scoring units on the table that your opponent has no real chance of killing them all before the game ends.

It's okay to add a few footvets units to an otherwise foot list, but there's a pretty narrow range of lists that work well combining foot platoons and mechvets.

Combining mechanized veterans with infantry platoons on foot can work if you field artillery and other AV12 vehicles to keep the heat off your veterans. The platoon can stay on objectives and in cover to protect your tanks and die horribly protecting them, letting your heavy firepower finish the job.
It usually works pretty well for me, except when playing against GK. Psycannon and STR 5 Storm Bolter spam just anihilates this type of army.

So... were I to build a list using Leman Russ' and platoons, would that work out? All I ever hear online anymore is vets in Valkyries. I want to use my tanks and arty and my troops. And Rough Riders for gaks and giggles.