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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 15:02:53
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior
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So I've read loads and loads about Warmachine and Hordes but I'm having trouble finalising what army I want to play:
- Cygnar ( I played ranged armies in 40k, I love Kara Sloan's model but I'm not a fan of being the 'good guy' faction)
- Khador ( I love their aesthetics but I'm unsure of them tactic-wise and I feel like everyone and their dog plays them)
- Legion of Everblight ( Shark-Dragons look amazing, as does Lylyth. I've heard they do range and CC well but are 'glass cannons' right for a beginner?)
Does anyone have any opinions or facts to sway my decision, one way or another?
(Also, I have the mk.2 warmachine rule book. Will I need the Hordes one to play Legion? :S )
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"Satisfaction lies in the effort, not in the attainment. Full effort is full victory." - Gandhi
1500
1500
Soon! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 15:25:01
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Paingiver
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There aren't really any beginner factions in WM/H. Each one has it's own complex and simple elements that can all work together well. The complex models aren't even more "advanced" by default. Equally skilled players will have a good match between the highly nuanced Zerkova and the very basic Butcher of Khardov even though the two are in the same faction. Some could argue that certain complex models don't offer enough advantages for being more challenging to play, but that does not make them any weaker if you know what you are doing.
I wrote an article on a different site to help people pick their armies and while it is too long to copy over I'll give you a link and copy a few important parts that might be most useful to you since you seem like you are interested mostly in gameplay right now.
http://www.beastsofwar.com/groups/hordes-general-discussion/forum/topic/chosing-your-faction-in-hordes-and-warmachine/
Cygnar:
Gameplay- Cygnar was known as the shooty faction during the first edition rules, but has grown into a combined arms faction in mark two. There are still proportionally more ranged attacks, but gunlines don’t perform well. Cygnar’s infantry are generally frail with more emphasis on offense than defense. They also have below average hitting power in lieu of generally high accuracy. Cygnar is in fact a highly accurate faction across the board; they lack the proficient mat 8 melee specialists, but most models sport above average mat and rat. Cygnar has few area of effect or spray attacks but frequently uses lightning jumping from model to model as an analogous solution. Cygnar jacks are rather average but most trade a bit of armor for higher accuracy. Infantry are effective at both ranged and melee combat and can prove adaptable -even if frail. Cygnar support is spread across many specialist solos and tend to be more utility or defensive in nature than offensive. Cygnar warcasters are generally rather powerful and support their army with a wide array of buffs with almost no effects that hamper enemy models. Cygnar seems to have an early edge on huge-based models with one of the better battle engines and a remarkably strong colossal. A special mention must be made for the very wide spread of mercenaries available to cygnar and the many additional units and solos which can be hired.
Khador:
Gameplay- Khador is a bit of an infantry faction since their warcasters often struggle to cast support spells and fuel focus-hungry heavy jacks at the same time. They can field a wide variety of models from highly resilient and heavily armored men-o-war to evasive kayazay assassins to dangerous widowmaker snipers. If you need a specialist unit, khador probably has it. Their jacks are usually used more in melee due to their pervasively low rat, but the ranged options do provide the benefit of boostable blast damage from their frequent aoe attacks and are usually still quite good in melee.
Legion of Everblight:
Gameplay- Legion is a beast-heavy army, and the only one with access to lesser warbeasts. Their army is the most ranged-heavy of all the hordes forces and runs equally well with ranged or melee list designs. They are frail and mobile like circle, but rely more on ranged supremacy than trickery to swing the fight to their favor. If you seek a glass hammer look no further. Legion infantry is generally represented by capable specialists who perform their tasks with little to no support. Emphasis is usually on offense rather than defense and even their most durable troops are better labeled a tarpit. The beasts are speedy and many sport both ranged and melee capability. The maximum power of legion beasts can be surprisingly low, but the vast majority ignore terrain; and every beast ignores stealth and concealment. The legion’s support is quite good and offer enough fury management to let those beasts with the lower ceiling on power boost freely. Their infantry support …well, they make more beasts out of the corpses of the fallen. Legion Warlocks are varied specialists who’s strengths each represent a different playstyle. It can be challenging to bring all the necessary tools to bare at once, but skilled players can win in ways their opponents never imagined possible.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/25 15:25:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 16:27:15
Subject: Re:Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Man O' War
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I would personally start with Khador, they are easy to catch and play, also, statistics show that khador is the 3rd most popular are in warmachine behind cryx and cygnar.
With cygnar there is immense pressure to start well, if you dont win by the 3rd turn you have lost is a well known saying for cygnar, they are a qite advanced army.
Legion are also OK for beginners
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Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 17:42:10
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Drakhun
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One of the reasons I like this game so much is that, you really cant go wrong with any faction. Its not like GW where you love the look and feel of a factions models but they are dog gak on the table.
Pick the ones that you like the look and feel of best, you really cant go wrong.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 17:57:21
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Man O' War
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darefsky wrote:One of the reasons I like this game so much is that, you really cant go wrong with any faction. Its not like GW where you love the look and feel of a factions models but they are dog gak on the table.
Pick the ones that you like the look and feel of best, you really cant go wrong.
#
Thats why i now play WM, totally equal and there isn't a "everyone plays army" like necrons or MEQ.
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Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 19:03:49
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Bane Lord Tartar Sauce
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Others have given all the advice I could have but I just wanted to point out that there isn't really a 'good guy' faction.
Cygnar is ruled by Leto who overthrew his tyrannical brother via coup. Whilst he was a prince he became friends with Madrak (currently the leader of the trollbloods) and promised to support the trollblood cause. As a king Leto had to balance the needs of his country and only begrudgingly gave the trollbloods an area on the Eastern boarder of Cygnar. But then the Skorne crossed the desert and hit the barrier of the Trolls, pissing them off slightly (both sides)
Even the Trollbloods ain't all fancy and good. Doomshaper has gone and destroyed Cygnarian convoys. Madrak was pissed off took up the world ender axe, but now is called the world ender himself (not the lightest of names).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 19:05:26
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Man O' War
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yastobaal wrote:
Others have given all the advice I could have but I just wanted to point out that there isn't really a 'good guy' faction.
Cygnar is ruled by Leto who overthrew his tyrannical brother via coup. Whilst he was a prince he became friends with Madrak (currently the leader of the trollbloods) and promised to support the trollblood cause. As a king Leto had to balance the needs of his country and only begrudgingly gave the trollbloods an area on the Eastern boarder of Cygnar. But then the Skorne crossed the desert and hit the barrier of the Trolls, pissing them off slightly (both sides)
Even the Trollbloods ain't all fancy and good. Doomshaper has gone and destroyed Cygnarian convoys. Madrak was pissed off took up the world ender axe, but now is called the world ender himself (not the lightest of names).
Against all stereotypes, Cygnar really arn't that kind...
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Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/25 21:22:45
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Deadly Dark Eldar Warrior
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yastobaal wrote:
Others have given all the advice I could have but I just wanted to point out that there isn't really a 'good guy' faction.
Ahh, it was just how they were introduced to me  I guess they're the lesser of multiple evils though.
I think I'm leaning more towards Legion and Khador after reading Dais' fantastic post.
I already have the WM mk.2 rulebook. Will I need the Hordes one in order to play Legion? Can I get away with using the WM one? (I know there are slight differences)
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"Satisfaction lies in the effort, not in the attainment. Full effort is full victory." - Gandhi
1500
1500
Soon! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/26 00:29:11
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Drakhun
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Khador is just misunderstood, they are just trying to get all their land back, as the are the true and rightful rulers .....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/26 00:35:32
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
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CrabSlap wrote:
...
I already have the WM mk.2 rulebook. Will I need the Hordes one in order to play Legion? Can I get away with using the WM one? (I know there are slight differences)
yes, but if you want to go legion get the hordes 2 player box, essentially a free rule book and second army to learn with or trade for more legion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/26 16:06:36
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Man O' War
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ChaoticMind wrote: CrabSlap wrote:
...
I already have the WM mk.2 rulebook. Will I need the Hordes one in order to play Legion? Can I get away with using the WM one? (I know there are slight differences)
yes, but if you want to go legion get the hordes 2 player box, essentially a free rule book and second army to learn with or trade for more legion.
If you don't have already find some near you, or in your FLGS if you have one and trade them the circle for legion. Or just sell them on ebay and use the money to buy some more legion stuff
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Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/26 19:19:22
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Doc Brown
The Bleak Land of Gehenna (a.k.a Kentucky)
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Normally, I'd say go for Cygnar, but I'm more than a bit biased. Given your choices between Legion and Khador, I'm a bit less knowledgeable as I haven't had the chance to play with or against Legion.
Regarding Khador, I can definitely say that their reputation as the faction of walking beatsticks, while well-deserved to a degree, is a vast oversimplification of the tactics available to the faction. I have seen them successfully used as a ranged army composed largely of widow-makers and destroyers supported by a handful of melee jacks, in addition to a wide array of short and mid-ranged armies. It's also important to remember that along with the specialist units Dais mentioned, Khador has access to mercenary units to flesh out any areas where they may be a bit lacking.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/11/26 19:51:56
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Man O' War
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grayshadow87 wrote:Normally, I'd say go for Cygnar, but I'm more than a bit biased. Given your choices between Legion and Khador, I'm a bit less knowledgeable as I haven't had the chance to play with or against Legion.
Regarding Khador, I can definitely say that their reputation as the faction of walking beatsticks, while well-deserved to a degree, is a vast oversimplification of the tactics available to the faction. I have seen them successfully used as a ranged army composed largely of widow-makers and destroyers supported by a handful of melee jacks, in addition to a wide array of short and mid-ranged armies. It's also important to remember that along with the specialist units Dais mentioned, Khador has access to mercenary units to flesh out any areas where they may be a bit lacking.
One good ranged list:
pSorscha -5
Destroyer 9
Destroyer 9
Widowmakers 4
Man-O-War Demo Corps 9
Hammerfall Gun Corps 7
35p - Combines ranged weaponary with ferocious CC weapons
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Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 15:36:41
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Dakka Veteran
NoVA
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I think Thagrosh1 is one of the best casters to learn the game with. He can do a bit of everything and makes the Legion much tougher than usual.
If I was starting, I'd buy the Legion starter, Thagrosh1, a heavy warbeast kit (scythean or ravagore are both great with any caster really), and then a shepard/forsaken or two.
Should take you to 25 points and enough 1 or 2 points models (shredders, forsaken, shepards) to make it an even 25.
I'd stop there and see how you like the faction, but Thagrosh1 is a perfect starting caster imo.
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Playing: Droids (Legion), Starks (ASOIAF), BB2
Working on: Starks (ASOIAF), Twilight Kin (KoW). Droids (Legion)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 15:43:30
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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You're gonna have to edit your Legion blurb, Dais.
They're not the only ones in town with Lessers anymore.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 17:50:25
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Big Fat Gospel of Menoth
The other side of the internet
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darefsky wrote:Khador is just misunderstood, they are just trying to get all their land back, as the are the true and rightful rulers .....
Indeed, see this map of the motherland:
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(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
RAGE
Be sure to use logic! Avoid fallacies whenever possible.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 18:01:49
Subject: Re:Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Man O' War
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Even though im saying this as a Khador Player, their current land alone is more than all of immoren combined, match that with their population density, HOW MUCH LAND DO YOU NEED
Im was saying that as a neutral, no for my Khadoran self to take over... FOR THE MOTHERLAND!
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Khador 75p
Menoth 35p
Circle 25p
Legion 25p |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 18:09:43
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Drakhun
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@Surtur,
I posted that it the forums a few weeks ago... Still makes me smile every time I see it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/05 19:01:02
Subject: Re:Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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YELLOWBLADES wrote:Even though im saying this as a Khador Player, their current land alone is more than all of immoren combined, match that with their population density, HOW MUCH LAND DO YOU NEED
The invasion of the south isn't about amount of land, but quality of land. Hard to feed that many people farming frozen tundra.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/08 00:25:27
Subject: Beginner Army: Narrowed down to 3
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Fresh-Faced New User
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grayshadow87 wrote:Normally, I'd say go for Cygnar, but I'm more than a bit biased. Given your choices between Legion and Khador, I'm a bit less knowledgeable as I haven't had the chance to play with or against Legion.
Regarding Khador, I can definitely say that their reputation as the faction of walking beatsticks, while well-deserved to a degree, is a vast oversimplification of the tactics available to the faction. I have seen them successfully used as a ranged army composed largely of widow-makers and destroyers supported by a handful of melee jacks, in addition to a wide array of short and mid-ranged armies. It's also important to remember that along with the specialist units Dais mentioned, Khador has access to mercenary units to flesh out any areas where they may be a bit lacking.
I first started trying to learn Warmahordes by playing what I wanted to play based on what looked cool, Circle of Oboros, Constructs. It didn't work that well for me, I didn't have the finesse to get my brain around the army when I first started, I took a few months off, then on a whim picked up the Warmachine 2p box and started playing Khador. I found them to be a bit simpler to get my brain around and am working them up now in addition to still buying cool looking models that I will eventually learn how to play in Circle (when I get back to it)
I found Khador to be a good force to start out with, I also found them fun to paint.
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