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 AresX8 wrote:
Vaktathi, how do you know what a 6th edition army is when the ruleset has been out for less than a year, has only one codex release, and the Chaos codex has been out for only a month? It's extremely early to say anything about power level in regards to both 6th edition and the Chaos codex.

We can see other armies much better built to take advantage of the 6E rules, Necrons in particular with lots of HP stripping weapons, lots of Nightfight abilities, lots of flyers, flyer transports that ignore the downsides of being a flyer transport, lots of redeployment options, and ground vehicles that have extreme mitigation to destruction by HP loss through being AV13 until penetrated.

The CSM book is generally heavy on stuff that was really good two editions ago and solid last edition but got hammered this edition (for instance, heavy hitting CC units, walkers, etc), and is very top heavy in terms of its FoC layout.

The CSM book is generally heavy on stuff that was really good two editions ago and solid last edition but got hammered this edition (for instance, heavy hitting CC units, walkers, etc), and is very top heavy in terms of its FoC layout.

Everything except for fast attack is top heavy, a top of units in Elite, HQ, HEAVY (Why is the maulerfiend here and not FA? )

 Vaktathi wrote:

 AresX8 wrote:
Vaktathi, how do you know what a 6th edition army is when the ruleset has been out for less than a year, has only one codex release, and the Chaos codex has been out for only a month? It's extremely early to say anything about power level in regards to both 6th edition and the Chaos codex.

We can see other armies much better built to take advantage of the 6E rules, Necrons in particular with lots of HP stripping weapons, lots of Nightfight abilities, lots of flyers, flyer transports that ignore the downsides of being a flyer transport, lots of redeployment options, and ground vehicles that have extreme mitigation to destruction by HP loss through being AV13 until penetrated.

The CSM book is generally heavy on stuff that was really good two editions ago and solid last edition but got hammered this edition (for instance, heavy hitting CC units, walkers, etc), and is very top heavy in terms of its FoC layout.

So the fact an army does something different means it takes advantage more of the edition's rules than CSM? What about the abundance of Hatred, Torrent, It Will not Die, Rage, Fear, Daemon, and one of the core mechanics of the codex focusing on challenges? Just because you don't like the focus on mid to short range that the Chaos codex has doesn't mean that it doesn't use the edition completely.

So the fact an army does something different means it takes advantage more of the edition's rules than CSM? What about the abundance of Hatred, Torrent, It Will not Die, Rage, Fear, Daemon, and one of the core mechanics of the codex focusing on challenges? Just because you don't like the focus on mid to short range that the Chaos codex has doesn't mean that it doesn't use the edition completely.

Champions of Chaos is a penalty to us as far as challenges. Not a bonus. Range has nothing to do with anything. The Necron Codex is also focused on mid to short range for example. The other rules you mention are either bolt on USRs or unit specific rules that you are paying a lot of extra points for. Like I said before, look at the Warp Talons. They are the poster child for why this is not a codex ideally suited to 6th. In an edition that has generally nerfed assault and where you cannot assault out of reserve, and in a codex where we have very few (actually I think only ONE) ways to help prevent deep strike scatter we are given a unit that relies on deep strike to get into CC (with a special ability that is only useful if they don't scatter). W ..... T ....... F. It's not the only example but it's a really good one. Think how kick arse that exact same unit would have been if you COULD assault straight away and had things like icons that act as beacons to help prevent scatter. Then realize that this is exactly what you had in 4th edition and exactly where Warp Talons probably belong ...

 AresX8 wrote:


So the fact an army does something different means it takes advantage more of the edition's rules than CSM? What about the abundance of Hatred, Torrent, It Will not Die, Rage, Fear, Daemon, and one of the core mechanics of the codex focusing on challenges? Just because you don't like the focus on mid to short range that the Chaos codex has doesn't mean that it doesn't use the edition completely.

Hatred is one of the few real 6E additions, but it's not much different than last editions Preferred Enemy. Torrent is available on one unit and one unique HQ weapon, but it's not a new mechanic to 6th edition it just wasn't called Torrent before where it existed (e.g. IG Hellhound since 3rd did the same thing). Rage is hamfisted in there for it's own sake to replace +1A on Khornate units for some reason. Daemon is just adding Fear (a relatively useless ability) as before such units just had "5+ Invulnerable Save" listed under their special rules and noted as Daemons in FAQ's or other books for the relevant reasons. It Will Not Die is only relevant because of the existence of Hull Points.

So basically, all we're getting is a couple of 6E USR's tacked onto what is basically a 4E army, as I said earlier. Most of these are just amalgamating previously existing things under one name or another USR/mechanic in a previous edition did the same thing.

I never said I didn't like the focus on mid-short range, I'm not sure where you are getting that from, that's what most marine armies and especially CSM's have always been. The problem is that it's overloading on one aspect of that in ways more suited to success in previous editions.

All that CSM's got 6E-wise was some USR's, mostly to consolidate existing rules, aside from that it's mostly cost changes. Necrons were built very closely to many of the core gameplay mechanics involving missions and vehicles and deployment through unique unit options/rules, which is a far, far different thing.

Tycho wrote:
Champions of Chaos is a penalty to us as far as challenges. Not a bonus. Range has nothing to do with anything. The Necron Codex is also focused on mid to short range for example. The other rules you mention are either bolt on USRs or unit specific rules that you are paying a lot of extra points for. Like I said before, look at the Warp Talons. They are the poster child for why this is not a codex ideally suited to 6th. In an edition that has generally nerfed assault and where you cannot assault out of reserve, and in a codex where we have very few (actually I think only ONE) ways to help prevent deep strike scatter we are given a unit that relies on deep strike to get into CC (with a special ability that is only useful if they don't scatter). W ..... T ....... F. It's not the only example but it's a really good one. Think how kick arse that exact same unit would have been if you COULD assault straight away and had things like icons that act as beacons to help prevent scatter. Then realize that this is exactly what you had in 4th edition and exactly where Warp Talons probably belong ...

Honestly I would be fine with the warp talons if they increased their blinding abilities range. Use them as sorta blind bombs you can drop in an opponents army.

 GMR wrote:
So it's been a few months now with the new codex out, unfortunately I've only managed to play a few games with it so far, but I was just wondering what the opinion was on the new book: Better, Worse or roughly the same?

I've noticed the drop in leadership across the board and that's come up a few times already, tried the Heldrake but wasn't that impressed, Vendetta gunships have it trumped every time.
Some nice extra options in there too though, I like some of the artifacts and the champions of chaos table is quite fun, especially when I got re-roll armour saves on my terminator lord!

So what do you other Chaos players think, was it worth the wait?

LOL

Worth the wait? Not even close. I would bet you 5 dollars that most people who may have only played against the new Chaos codex only once or twice wouldn't even notice the difference if I suddenly started to use the old Chaos codex.

The changes are so minor and so arbitrary that it's not even worth the paper it's printed on, much less $50. For such a shoddy update, they should be paying ME.

The fact of the matter is, this codex isn't balanced. Not even remotely. Not internally balanced (look at the cost of bikers compared to Raptors, or the price of the MoS for a Lord compared to the MoN). People who think they're fancy say that the codex is nuanced, but that's complete bs no matter which way you look at it. Chaos Space Marines are not Eldar or Dark Eldar. They are brutal, in your face, not "nuanced". But it's alright, keep getting your ass handed to you by 12 year olds with Grey Knights and Necrons as you play your "nuanced" Chaos Space Marine army.

The only thing I like about the codex is the Chaos Boons. That's the only thing. Otherwise, the codex is a drab,uninspired mess. And I'm not going to play the Codex just for the Chaos boons, it's a waste of my time. Hopefully in the next 10 years (Assuming this game is even still around), we'll get another Chaos codex that isn't just a fething update of the worst Chaos codex ever (the Gavdex).

And then people say "ohhhh but you knowwww they're trying to make the game more balancedddd". Haha, sounds good kid. Have you read the rumors for the new Mat Ward Facemelter, the Dark Angels? BS5 Terminators with Assault 4 Stormbolters, Plasma ammo Assault Cannons, and a host of other moronic things. Good thing I at least have my Imperial Guard.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 GMR wrote:
So it's been a few months now with the new codex out, unfortunately I've only managed to play a few games with it so far, but I was just wondering what the opinion was on the new book: Better, Worse or roughly the same?

I've noticed the drop in leadership across the board and that's come up a few times already, tried the Heldrake but wasn't that impressed, Vendetta gunships have it trumped every time.
Some nice extra options in there too though, I like some of the artifacts and the champions of chaos table is quite fun, especially when I got re-roll armour saves on my terminator lord!

So what do you other Chaos players think, was it worth the wait?

LOL

Worth the wait? Not even close. I would bet you 5 dollars that most people who may have only played against the new Chaos codex only once or twice wouldn't even notice the difference if I suddenly started to use the old Chaos codex.

The changes are so minor and so arbitrary that it's not even worth the paper it's printed on, much less $50. For such a shoddy update, they should be paying ME.

The fact of the matter is, this codex isn't balanced. Not even remotely. Not internally balanced (look at the cost of bikers compared to Raptors, or the price of the MoS for a Lord compared to the MoN). People who think they're fancy say that the codex is nuanced, but that's complete bs no matter which way you look at it. Chaos Space Marines are not Eldar or Dark Eldar. They are brutal, in your face, not "nuanced". But it's alright, keep getting your ass handed to you by 12 year olds with Grey Knights and Necrons as you play your "nuanced" Chaos Space Marine army.

The only thing I like about the codex is the Chaos Boons. That's the only thing. Otherwise, the codex is a drab,uninspired mess. And I'm not going to play the Codex just for the Chaos boons, it's a waste of my time. Hopefully in the next 10 years (Assuming this game is even still around), we'll get another Chaos codex that isn't just a fething update of the worst Chaos codex ever (the Gavdex).

And then people say "ohhhh but you knowwww they're trying to make the game more balancedddd". Haha, sounds good kid. Have you read the rumors for the new Mat Ward Facemelter, the Dark Angels? BS5 Terminators with Assault 4 Stormbolters, Plasma ammo Assault Cannons, and a host of other moronic things. Good thing I at least have my Imperial Guard.

I don't think I've ever seen Vlad so upset!

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen Vlad so upset!

Haha I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but yeah I'm pretty disappointed. I know that it's a game and it's supposed to be fun and doesn't warrant me sperging out like this, I feel like it's a fair criticism since I've spent a lot of money over the years.

One nice thing though is that at least I have another army, most people can't say the same about themselves so I should count myself lucky there!

Honestly I would be fine with the warp talons if they increased their blinding abilities range. Use them as sorta blind bombs you can drop in an opponents army.

That's exactly my point and exactly why I look at them as the poster children for the FAIL of this dex. When you have to start your sentence with "I would be fine IF ..." then there is something wrong. Yes, IF the range was bigger on that ability it would be great. Since it's not though, we are left with a unit that is just *this close* to actually being useful. Ooops. Additionally, even if the range was wider, you'd be paying a metric ton of points for that blind ability. Other armies get that through 5 point grenades. Again, oops.

The fact of the matter is, this codex isn't balanced. Not even remotely. Not internally balanced (look at the cost of bikers compared to Raptors, or the price of the MoS for a Lord compared to the MoN). People who think they're fancy say that the codex is nuanced, but that's complete bs no matter which way you look at it. Chaos Space Marines are not Eldar or Dark Eldar. They are brutal, in your face, not "nuanced". But it's alright, keep getting your ass handed to you by 12 year olds with Grey Knights and Necrons as you play your "nuanced" Chaos Space Marine army.

I am not fancy. The codex is nuanced. lol I pretty much agree with you though. There are just a lot wtf things in the book that aren't making a lot of sense to me. It's not a great book and I'm looking forward to my Dark Angels finally having a good codex.

Worth the wait? Not even close. I would bet you 5 dollars that most people who may have only played against the new Chaos codex only once or twice wouldn't even notice the difference if I suddenly started to use the old Chaos codex.

I disagree. They would most certainly notice the difference if you switched codexes. For one thing, the game would suddenly be moving faster because you would no longer have to make the half dozen or so random rolls per turn for the various crap we now have to roll for, and for another thing, your troops would have a proper leadership score so they would suddenly not be running away so often!

The book was bland enough that the final two chaos players at my FLGS finally sold their CSM on ebay.

The book was bland enough that the final two chaos players at my FLGS finally sold their CSM on ebay.

I've seen a little of that as well. Personally, I feel like it's a bit extreme, but I guess when you get so many bland codexes in a row it can be excused. Personally, I'm just going to stick it out long enough for the DA codex to come out. It's going to be awesome getting that old army out of mothballs! lol

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:

I don't think I've ever seen Vlad so upset!

Haha I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but yeah I'm pretty disappointed. I know that it's a game and it's supposed to be fun and doesn't warrant me sperging out like this, I feel like it's a fair criticism since I've spent a lot of money over the years.

One nice thing though is that at least I have another army, most people can't say the same about themselves so I should count myself lucky there!

Fortunately I do have another army!

Unfortunately that army is Tyranids...

What really saddens me was that I was hoping add slaanesh deamons as allies to my csm but for ridiculous reason all synergy between deamons and csm is completely removed. Remember how you could spawn a greater deamon from a character in 5th ed dex? Wouldn't it be awesome if that deamon was from your allies?

Remember how you could spawn a greater deamon from a character in 5th ed dex? Wouldn't it be awesome if that deamon was from your allies?

When I first heard that they were going to include a Dark Apostle in the new codex that's exactly what I was thinking. I was hoping it would give you a way to bridge the gap between your marines and your demon allies. There's a scene in the Word Bearer's trilogy where a Word Bearer causes a bunch of demons to posses some cultists and it was awesome. How great would it have been to be able to reenact that scene on the table top using the DA as a catalyst for it? It would have been an easy rule to write too. Another great example of a missed opportunity ...

Tycho wrote:

The fact of the matter is, this codex isn't balanced. Not even remotely. Not internally balanced (look at the cost of bikers compared to Raptors, or the price of the MoS for a Lord compared to the MoN). People who think they're fancy say that the codex is nuanced, but that's complete bs no matter which way you look at it. Chaos Space Marines are not Eldar or Dark Eldar. They are brutal, in your face, not "nuanced". But it's alright, keep getting your ass handed to you by 12 year olds with Grey Knights and Necrons as you play your "nuanced" Chaos Space Marine army.

I am not fancy. The codex is nuanced. lol I pretty much agree with you though. There are just a lot wtf things in the book that aren't making a lot of sense to me. It's not a great book and I'm looking forward to my Dark Angels finally having a good codex.

Yeah what's funny is my friend plays Dark Angels and he's going to get a super overpowered codex, whereas my Chaos is stuck with a bland codex.

Also, you're right that the codex is nuanced. According to the dictionary, it means: "a subtle distinction or variation". So yes, this codex is our nuanced 4th edition codex.
There really are a lot of wtf things.

Worth the wait? Not even close. I would bet you 5 dollars that most people who may have only played against the new Chaos codex only once or twice wouldn't even notice the difference if I suddenly started to use the old Chaos codex.

I disagree. They would most certainly notice the difference if you switched codexes. For one thing, the game would suddenly be moving faster because you would no longer have to make the half dozen or so random rolls per turn for the various crap we now have to roll for, and for another thing, your troops would have a proper leadership score so they would suddenly not be running away so often!

I think its's a great book. I understand why some people don't like it, but in my opinion it is worth it.

This book is not worth £30... simple really. The fluff is the same from previous books (albeit half-assed with no actual new intelligent writing) the army list feels like it was shoved in at the end of the book because they actually forgot about it and the rest of it is stuff I could generally find online for free. Want a miniature gallery? Check Dakka... Want a run down of who the Chaos Space Marines are? Check Lexicanum... nothing about this book is worth 5 hours of minimum wage.
Simply put this book is damned expensive toilet paper.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That maybe harsh but it's not worth £30 maybe £18 but not £30

All i have to say is; HARDEN THE UP !

I play tau and we are in dire need of a codex update even a WD update would be good at this rate ! also dont complain about your flyer atleast you have one... does tau ? does eldar ? does DA ? does BT ? does SW (although their dex is powerful enough already) ?
and ontop of that we have a narrow array of tactics that everyone can see a mile off, you however can theme your armys to being shooty or CC or a mixture.

Warp Talons are not overpriced either, if i wanted to make a similar unit of Vanguard veterans from C:SM each marine would cost 60 points each to have dual LC and JP so yours are half the price and have an invuln !

Thousand sons also are fairly priced considering you get a psyker in each squad + AP3 bolters + a 4+ invuln, i have heard that most units in the eldar dex are overcosted so stop b*tching about 2 units being over priced.

you have a good array of units in each part of the dex except maybe troops in which you have the same amount of choices as C:SM BUT you can also take some elites as troops if you have the right HQs

maybe ontop of all that the codex just hasnt been out long enough for you to find the appropriate tactics for which to use with each unit and the powerful loadouts for each one.

however i do agree that the price of the book itself is a liitle steep but what can you do, maybe try find a second hand one maybe ? or download it ?

Warp Talons are not overpriced either, if i wanted to make a similar unit of Vanguard veterans from C:SM each marine would cost 60 points each to have dual LC and JP so yours are half the price and have an invuln !

but since that sm codex came out venguard were pointed out as one of the worse units in the dex. , so what kind of an argument is that ?

Thousand sons also are fairly priced considering you get a psyker in each squad + AP3 bolters + a 4+ invuln, i have heard that most units in the eldar dex are overcosted so stop b*tching about 2 units being over priced.

but you know if someone is playing 1ksons , then the unit being overcosted means their whole army is crapy . It would be as if tau had one unit of troops , no elite , no FA , no hvy support and 2 HQ. would you be happy then ? also those bolters are str 4 and do nothing to +2sv or+3inv . 1ksons also dont have specials weapons , so they struggle against tanks and transports .

also I can imagine how can you claim that 1w asp sorc are good at casting anything when armies are full Space Wolf rune staffs and in the case of your tau army eldar runes.

you have a good array of units in each part of the dex except maybe troops in which you have the same amount of choices as C:SM BUT you can also take some elites as troops if you have the right HQs

but most of them are bad. who cares if there are melee oblits, talons, hellbruts , defilers , apostols or smiths etc when they may as well not exist , but no one sane will ever take them .

maybe ontop of all that the codex just hasnt been out long enough for you to find the appropriate tactics for which to use with each unit and the powerful loadouts for each one.

because all csm players are retards and dont know how to play , while SW/IG/GK/necron are masters of tactics and they had power builds ready from day one . how good the chaos codex is show the countless topics on faction forums that start with "how to counter chaos marines". they were close to non and if they were any , the conclusion was csm are like SW light and easy to counter by good armies. CSM didnt change the meta game , they didnt make any build no longer viable ,they didnt make any codex sucks just by being legal .

Ok then, this is a game and normally games are designed so that you have fun, you do not need the strongest army out there to have fun, some people might like using those horrible units because they are fun to use. If you play the game to only win then why would you pick a 'horrible' codex

also name one thing in the game other than Warp talons that get jump packs dual LC and a 5+ invuln for 30 points per model

tau army eldar runes.

dafuq are these ?

because all csm players are retards and dont know how to play , while SW/IG/GK/necron are masters of tactics and they had power builds ready from day one

i never said all chaos players were slowed but its you wont figure out the best possible combinations in the codex on day 1 will you and those codeces have been out for quite a while - giving the players of those codeces time to figure out what all the powerful combinations are.

 Warp Angels wrote:
Ok then, this is a game and normally games are designed so that you have fun, you do not need the strongest army out there to have fun, some people might like using those horrible units because they are fun to use. If you play the game to only win then why would you pick a 'horrible' codex

There's nothing fun about your HQ randomly turning into a spawn in the middle of the fight; there's nothing fun with watching your army get decimated by a far superior, far more competitive army like Necrons.

As long s the game has a "winner" and a "loser", the competitive balance of the codex is going to always be important.

Okay, come join the tau, we've been here since 2005 / 2006 and we can still win if you know how, if you like the army you wont shelve it because of a few bad units.

The boon table is awesome who cares if you turn into a spawn its funny for both players i find (unless ofcourse you have no sense of humour), try think like an ork when the SAG goes bad or the weirdboy blows himself up, its funny so go with it.

If you have a necron problem then learn what units are good to counter it eg. max out the basic marines or assaulting them is an even easier way to deal with necrons, and if its flying circus dont worry coz everyone has trouble with it..

Why should you have to fight and claw your way to a victory and play twice as hard as your opponent, purely because your codex is crap, when your opponent can sit their and cruise control to victory with his?

I like it. *shrugs*

Then again, I may like it purely because it's not the previous abomination.

BlaxicanX wrote:
There's nothing fun about your HQ randomly turning into a spawn in the middle of the fight;

Of course the flip side and almost as likely alternative is that your squads aspiring champion who costs less than 50pts might explode into a Daemon Prince...

It's not a broken dex, it's mid tier, hopefully around the tier armies will start being aimed at. We could buff every to the level of the top dexs and set that at the level but then all the armies waiting for updates get effectively weaker for each release. This way they could bring the older weaker dexes up to date to the mid tier, maybe throw in a few anti-high tier toys, then start bringing the high tiers back down and in line.

The added bonus is then everyone who power chases buys two armies, a high tier now and a new mid tier one when they get rebalanced and their power build gets nerfed.

People saying how facemelting the new DA dex is gonna be are jumping the gun, maybe they can get BS5 Assault 4 termies, but what if they cost 60pts each? It's all hearsay, wait for the dex and lets see if they can keep consistent.

 Warp Angels wrote:

The boon table is awesome who cares if you turn into a spawn its funny for both players i find (unless ofcourse you have no sense of humour), try think like an ork when the SAG goes bad or the weirdboy blows himself up, its funny so go with it.

How is this funny? An expensive model killing himself and bunch troops.

Do you what is funny? IG heavy weapons team destroys a trukk, trukk kareens into ig blob and kills bunch of guardsmen and orks.

It's not funny when you lose only because your own guys killed themselves.

This is funny too:

Oy, iz dis thing on?! Yeah, dis here is a message for da' grayskin bosses and their kroot. If'n you're gettin' any pictures wiff this thing, you can see what we done to your kroot over there. They's all dead and making for nice decorations on me new boss-hut. If'n you're not getting da pictures, just take one of da kroot near you an' rip 'em in half. It's like that. Dis here is Warboss Hedkrakka and it wuz me and me boyz that did this to yer kroot. Dis here is Hedkrakka's land now and we'z all coming to see you'z next! I need some grayskins for me boss-hut!

Makumba wrote:

Warp Talons are not overpriced either, if i wanted to make a similar unit of Vanguard veterans from C:SM each marine would cost 60 points each to have dual LC and JP so yours are half the price and have an invuln !

but since that sm codex came out venguard were pointed out as one of the worse units in the dex. , so what kind of an argument is that ?

Vanguard vets considered overcosted, Warp Talons swap 1A and HI for a less fancy ability, but come in at just over half the cost. So the main beef against vanguard, their cost, is addressed. It's that kind of argument.

I play tau and we are in dire need of a codex update even a WD update would be good at this rate ! also dont complain about your flyer atleast you have one... does tau ? does eldar ? does DA ? does BT ? does SW (although their dex is powerful enough already) ?
and ontop of that we have a narrow array of tactics that everyone can see a mile off, you however can theme your armys to being shooty or CC or a mixture.

DA and BT/SW can take the Storm Talon if I'm remembering my WD correctly. It hardly matters though. Fortifications even that out nicely whether your army has fliers or not. Tau are one of my side armies so I can feel your pain. To a point. Imagine how it will be when that new dex finally comes out and it ends up being basically the same as the one it replaced. Shuffling some points here and adding a special rule there and basically doing very little different. Except for those spots where you're penalized by your own codex. You will be irritated too. Aside from that, "I play TAU!" is not a cogent response to "I don't like this new Chaos codex.".

Warp Talons are not overpriced either, if i wanted to make a similar unit of Vanguard veterans from C:SM each marine would cost 60 points each to have dual LC and JP so yours are half the price and have an invuln !

Others have already explained why your argument about their cost is not an accurate one. I won't bother repeating it. I will add that the primary knock against the Talons is not cost, but rather the fact that we have been given a new unit who's core usage is based around the mechanics of an edition we no longer play.

Thousand sons also are fairly priced considering you get a psyker in each squad + AP3 bolters + a 4+ invuln, i have heard that most units in the eldar dex are overcosted so stop b*tching about 2 units being over priced.

Thousand Sons are way too expensive. You don't "get" a psyker in every squad. You pay through the nose to meet the REQUIREMENT of having one in every squad. The Tsons have a limited use and as others have said, they can't take special weapons and are slow as slow can be. They are simply too expensive. Also, lol at your argument that Eldar units are over-priced. Of COURSE they are not pointed accurately. That can easily be forgiven when you look at the age of the codex. It's like comparing apples to submarines! The fact of the matter is, there are actually many units in the Chaos codex that are over-priced. Not just two. People get understanably agitated by that fact when the over-costed units are form a brand new codex. By your logic I could be saying that the Chaos players shouldn't be complaining because I have a second ed Squat army where one basic trooper costs 60 points ...

you have a good array of units in each part of the dex except maybe troops in which you have the same amount of choices as C:SM BUT you can also take some elites as troops if you have the right HQs

Swing and a miss! No. Just no. Fully two thirds of our entries are sitting in the HQ and Elites slots. Two thirds! We have exactly TWO basic troops choices. Also, the ability to take certain Elites as troops if you take certain models also exists in C:sm so nothing special there. The issue though is that you are almost forced to do that if you want to play certain armies. Our HQ structure causes us to end up pigeonholing our builds, or forces us to take special characters in order to get things that we would have gotten in much better and less expensive ways in previous books. The structure as it currently sits is just a way to thin out an over-crowded elites slot ...

however i do agree that the price of the book itself is a liitle steep but what can you do

Kind of agree with you there. I'm not thrilled about the price either, but really, this hobby isn't for the financially squeemish! lol

 Dunklezahn wrote:
It's not a broken dex, it's mid tier, hopefully around the tier armies will start being aimed at. We could buff every to the level of the top dexs and set that at the level but then all the armies waiting for updates get effectively weaker for each release. This way they could bring the older weaker dexes up to date to the mid tier, maybe throw in a few anti-high tier toys, then start bringing the high tiers back down and in line.

Man I wish this was the way things would happen. Would help prevent power creep. I am however far too jaded to hold out too much hope for this. If it does happen then I will be happily surprised.