Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As title. I'm pretty damned new to Fantasy, and was attracted to Lizardmen because I thought the Saurus looked amazing. Skinks, as far as I know, are effective, but I'm not entirely sold on them. I like them, but not nearly as much as the Saurus.
I've seen lots of lists going almost all Skink, with minimal Saurus, and was wondering if the reverse could work? ie: Mostly Saurus, with maybe a max of one unit of Skink Skirmishers?
At the minute I've only got the battleforce and 2 Saurus Characters, uni loan only stretches so far...
Thanks in advance

They definitly work, but you will want to support them with a Slann.

Their only weakness is their I1, which means they get hit by just about everything else before they swing.

So you either need to make them tougher, with Lore of Life buffs, or alleviate their low Inititive with Light.

Either way, they are nasty.


The base Saurus is T4 with a 4+ save and 2 Str4 attacks. Pretty good for a basic core model.

Take a Loremaster Slann in a Templeguard unit and toss those Buffs around.

I have nothing but bad luck with skinks, so I always have Saurus heavy armies. I love the look of it, and the fighting power.

Now on the flip side, I don't win a whole lot, either...

Oh I know I need a Slann, it's just a matter of funds at the minute :(
From what I've heard, in a nutshell, Life makes me more durable (Flesh to Stone) but also has a nice nuke in Dwellers, whilst Light makes me hit harder/faster?

Pretty much. Light doesn't have a nuke-em spell, but if you stack Timewarp with Speed of Light on the same unit it is devestating. Especially Kroxigors. I10 great weapons hurt.

I think most players run far more Saurus than Skinks. Chameleons are great, and Skirmishers are good, but you generally don't want tons of them (because skirmishers take up tons of space).

My friend has had great luck running a fairly cheap Slann (bsb + Higher State + Stubborn Crown) with Shadow, along with three medium-sized units of Saurus and a small handful of Scar-Vets. Shadow offers spells with similar results to Life and Light, and being able to swap places with other characters means the Slann can bounce away from magic weapon-having units or get the Saurus heroes into combats that they'll be more useful, etc.

@Grey Templar, that combo sounds horrendously amazing! Might have a couple of ideas for Christmas presents...
@Warpsolution, when you say medium-sized units, what sort of numbers are we talking, and in what configuration? Ie, 18 in a 6x3 etc?
I really want to get a good handle on how the Lizards play. I'm an avid and regular 40k gamer, but having a fantasy army just opens up so many more opponents/tactics!
Also what are you guys' thoughts on Krox-Skink units? Worth it? They look like they could dish out a lot of hurt, what with the Krox's being able to strike but not be hit until the Skinks are dead, or am I reading that wrong?

Saurus have good leadership, hitting power and survivability.
For giggles, I ran a lizardmen army with only a single scar vet, and spent the rest of the points on saurus, temple guard, salamanders and razordons.
Tons of units of 12 saurus, and 3 units of 10 temple guard.

All of the games were close game. My opponent didn't have a good target, as everything was expendable.
Units of 10 to 12 meant that I often thinned down units for a turn or two, and had time to flank.

Salamanders and Razordons helped with steadfast.
Temple guard even did a decent job. 10-15 S5 attacks isn't horrible (but is a bit over-priced).

Anyhow, Saurus can work.

-Matt

18 strong, 6X3, is exactly what I meant by medium-sized.

Kroxigor and Skink units seem to fair pretty well from what I've seen, You'l want to get someone else's opinion on that topic.

I've been running a unit of 40 saurus and full command next to my lore of life slaan and 18 templeguard and banner defiance.
Essentially 1400 points that my opponent is never ever going to get.
I even ran the unit at 1500pts with 2 saurus characters in the unit and no slaan. Did really well

Run it 5 wide and it is the anvil that veything else works off.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lizardmen are a combined arms faction.

Fantastic rock hard but slow saurus
Exremely flexible light roops (skink skirmishers or cohorts) for redirecting, warmachine killing.
Hands down the best infantry killers in the game (2 units of salamanders is just awesome)
Big, hard monsters
Fantastic magic users that can be really well tailored to any opponent
great heroes in combat
Some of the best scouts in the game (chameleon skinks)

Problem for saurus is that there is so much good stuff in the army you can quickly run out of points for anything but a token unit. And 20 saurus, or even 25 just don't cut it anymore.

 Sandyman11 wrote:
@Grey Templar, that combo sounds horrendously amazing! Might have a couple of ideas for Christmas presents...

I've been on the recieving end, not pretty. WS10 GWs at I10 arn't cool.

Even a Skrox unit of just 6 with a bunch of skink bodybags can be nasty.

Wow guys some really good advice here, really appreciate it May have to try a combo of the 40-block Saurus w/Temple Guard & Slann, with lore of Light...
Also, just realised, with a block of 40, and each rank only 5 wide, you're pretty much always going to win through ranks alone
Would you say that MSU's of Saurus would still work?
Also weapon choices, spears or hand weapons, or a mix throughout the army?

Small units of Saurus aren't great. since everyone gets to punch you in the face first, if you don't have at least 15 you might not get all your attacks.

I always go with Hand weapons and shields, because I use my Saurus aggressively. Parry saves are handy for a reasonably expensive core unit, and the extra rank of spear attacks just doesn't seem to help a lot.

That said, Saurus are one of the few units where Spears are a decen choice. You are Str4 so you actually do gain some decent killing power with them.

Ok so spears for receiving a charge and hand weapons for initiating? In blocks of at least 18-20?
How about Cold Ones? Got 8 in the Battleforce, wondering if they're viable, or if I should sell them off and get more Saurus/Slann?

I've seen small-ish blocks of Saurus work well, but either in conjunction with lots of other Saurus, or with magic to make them better or their enemies worse.

Spears are pretty good. The only thing is, they cost 1pt/model more, and the benefit is lost once you start losing that 3rd rank.
Big units can use spears, but the cost is not negligibile. Small units can be upgraded easier, but don't benefit much.
Honestly, I'd keep them cheap; that Parry save is almost as good as extra attacks, and it will be in effect down to your last model.

 Sandyman11 wrote:
Ok so spears for receiving a charge and hand weapons for initiating? In blocks of at least 18-20?
How about Cold Ones? Got 8 in the Battleforce, wondering if they're viable, or if I should sell them off and get more Saurus/Slann?

For me, Cold Ones are completely USELESS. Despite a decent Leadership, despite Cold-Blooded, my Cold Ones never do anything at LEAST half the game. I have had games where they passed ONE stupidity check the whole game. Yes GAMES. It has happened multiple times. I don't use them.

That sounds more like bad luck, man. On average, they're only going to be stupid about 1/6 times (since Cold-Blooded is a little better than having +1Ld, if I remember the math).

Saurus Cavalry can work, but with so many other, better options, I rarely see them.
I've seen a unit of 6 or 7 with the Jaguar Standard that basically raced around the table eating little units without proving to be an especially tempting target itself (what with a Slann and Salamanders and all).
Also, there was a trend a while back of Scar-Vets on Cold Ones with a Beast Slann for Savage Beast/Impenetrable Pelt fun. S8 T8 A7 is...hard to deal with.

They have the same problem most other cavelry has.

1) no ability to negate Steadfast

2) can't grind against forever steadfast

3) not durable enough to weather buckets of attacks.


They can still work, but you must use them in conjunction with infantry to break steadfast. So the cavelry can do its job by winning the combat.

It's funny, because I hear a lot of the UK podcasts kind of dogging on saurus, but on paper I feel like they're pretty great. At the same time, until I played against Hinge, I never really had much trouble with them.

I think they're hurt slightly by being in a weird middle ground with moderate strength, low WS, low initiative. This makes them a little tougher to use- and perhaps vulnerable to unexpected swings from bad dice rolls - i.e. when you're hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s with no re-rolls, there seems to be more room for error.

All that being said, I think there's armies that would love to have access to that kind of troop in their core selections, and they can become beasts with the right support (magic or scar vets).

 Red_Zeke wrote:
It's funny, because I hear a lot of the UK podcasts kind of dogging on saurus, but on paper I feel like they're pretty great. At the same time, until I played against Hinge, I never really had much trouble with them.

I think they're hurt slightly by being in a weird middle ground with moderate strength, low WS, low initiative. This makes them a little tougher to use- and perhaps vulnerable to unexpected swings from bad dice rolls - i.e. when you're hitting on 4s, wounding on 4s with no re-rolls, there seems to be more room for error.

All that being said, I think there's armies that would love to have access to that kind of troop in their core selections, and they can become beasts with the right support (magic or scar vets).

The low Init and getting hit on 3's is off set by 4+/6++ and T4. That's pretty tough for 1the cost. I find offense the problem. Often I can't kill enough with them. WS3 S4 is usually 4's and 4's, and that just isn't enough damage output. You've got to support with magic or other units; but that's true of the whole lizardmen book. All the units are decent, but they work great in pairs.

-Mat

Honestly, the Lizardmen in general are a very solid and well rounded army.

The Saurus are an excellent core choice, so I do not even thing it is much of a question.

Ok so general consensus on the Cold One Cavalry is; there are better things Probably end up taking them anyway for my next few games for want of other stuff, so what load-out do you think they would be best with?
Also Lords & Heroes. Do you take lots of Saurus HQ with a few cheap upgrades, or one/two tooled up ones? Count Slann out for this, I've gathered they're pretty mandatory