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How would i 2k point bike list go? Both with the C:SM and C:CSM codexes.

thanks in advance.

I played a Space Marine bike army for years, and they are amazing. 6th edition has been extremely kind to bikes with Hammer of Wrath and instant death.

The biggest difference I see between the two codices is scoring. All the advantages of bikes are maximized when they can take objectives. Otherwise, bikes can go kill stuff other troops have to get objectives. This dilutes the concept of a bike army: rapidly overwhelming the enemy while avoiding threats.

One component necessary is a castle deterrent - a reason for your opponent to spread out. Bikes are great nibblers, munching a unit with two groups of bikes before an overwhelming assault. An opponent can negate this advantage by clumping his power together.

A great threat to make this clump spread out is ordnance. I used to run two vindicators with my bikes to make castling undesirable.

Another requirement is a ranged threat to open transports or minimize the mobility of your opponent. Land speeder tornados can provide synergy, or havocs or devastators.

However, the flier world is great against bikes. Most fliers carry medium to high strength guns, negating the toughness benefit, while they are significantly faster than bikes, minimizing the movement benefit.

thanks for that.
What do you think about biker command squads?

I don't think it would work too well in Chaos, especially since their is no allowance for an all biker army. At best, you get a lord on a bike, and three biker squads.

If you want an all biker army, go with Dark Angels. Each squad, fully kitted out, is about 400 points, give or take. And with Sammael at the helm, those bikes are troops.

Well at 2k you get the option for a double Force org chart, so that means 4 chaos lords on bikes (max) and up to 6 biker squads. Personally I'd only take 4 biker squads so that each can carry a lord into combat, this could be a really cool list because each squad could be marked differently (4 marks, 4 HQ slots!) and have a different role.

You can even take sorcerers on bikes.

Here's an example list at 2k (just to see how many bikes I can use):

Chaos lord 175
Khorne
Jugger
Axe of Blind fury
Sigil of corruption
VotLW

Chaos lord 175
Slaanesh
Steed
Black mace
Sigil
VotLW

Chaos lord 155
Nurgle
Bike
Sigil
Power fist
VotLW

Sorcerer 205
Lvl 3
Bike
Tzeentch
Burning brand
Sigil

2x5 CSM 135 Each
Plasma
Combi plasma
Rhino

2x 10 cultists

8 bikes 262
Tzeentch
2x plasma
2x lightening claws on champ
VotLW

7 bikes 226
Khorne
Icon of wrath
Power sword
2x melta
VotLW

6 bikes 227
Nurgle
2x plasma
Power fist
VotLW

5 bikes 175
Slaanesh
Icon of excess
2x plasma
Power sword
VotLW

I don't think this list would be all that awesome since the bikes don't score...but it's full of sacred numbers so you'll somehow win every game.

I think that a chaos biker list would be really potent, especially if ran all Nurgle to abuse the T6 3+, however Slaanesh is viable due to the FnP as well and gives the bikers an edge against MEQ in assaults.

Good luck!

I run a pure biker army @ 2k and beginning to practice to take it to events.


(55 (9x6+1) Bikes in 2k right there; 1850 I'll have 49 (8x6+1)

Personally I have experimented with a few builds like BA Jumpers/SM Bikes; SW Calv/SM Bikes; and even Sternguard/Bikes.

The Jumper or Sternguard hybrids I haven't got to work but would be most useful as the biker army's biggest weakness is what I call "cats hiding in trees" syndrome. Where people of low moral fiber put objectives they can in the higher levels of ruins so you can't win. Pansy-like really, only effective if they can hold it with your shooting, I have yet to see a blob bunch up enough in a higher level ruin to escape my Bikes, though, and usually force them to lose it with a charge to the bottom floor.

Anyways, I run a simple Captain + 6 Full Bike Squads at the moment, it fares very well against any Mech list but those wise-guys who tailor to you and take Colossus (You know this because lot's of folk take Manticores/Demolishers/Battle Tanks otherwise as IG or just more Flyers.

Flyer armies don't give you much trouble (if they took too many) because you can overwhelm what they have on the table before they arrive, and in the case of say Necrons, they will simply fly over you and lose chances to shoot you, and Since you got saves against 2/3 Turns worth of "Destructor" firepower if they go back off after they shoot, they can't realistically kill you and have no real safe spot to drop their cargo off later on cuz you can speed over and contest/kill what they drop off.

The infamous Daemon list (Screamers/Flamers) has trouble with it if they don't get good Deep Strikes for, gee, their Flamers and Screamers. YOU can control this by spreading out and absorbing space on the battlefield so you can make sure they don't surround you and you can then compress once the Flamers are in and focus fire them down (Because anything else you can deal with either in combat or grenade the MCs or even use Combat Tactics to escape a "bad" combat; Screamers if you play right will have a hard time catching you if your opponent didn't play just right because you can shoot them and focus fire them too later)

Chaos Biker fails only because the Bikers aren't always scoring, their Bikes are better in offense than SM bikes, but I hold Combat Tactics in high regard.

Ravenwing (DA Bikes) have trouble in the numbers department and Sammael being forced to be on his own or be a Land Speeder. Fearless is also a big thing that I personally dread about DA Bikes because you don't want to be stuck in combat vs some things.

Will be checking back here if you have any questions, nice to see some folks still interested in this army.

Bike armies work, just please don't give all one different mark, as Mark of Tzeentch is about 99% useless on Bikes and the suggestion above to do so is terrible.

@Smurfy - I like that photo a lot.

With a CSM list, you need to be playing a 2,000+ point game to go mostly bikers. This would get you the ability to field 6 units of 10. Give them MoS, Melta Bombs and 2 Plasma Guns each for 310 points per unit. If you really want to be mean, give them MoS and IoE. More expensive, but they will usually hit first and the FnP does keep them around longer.

60 bikers is a lot to deal with, and it's actually quite a bit tougher than Ravenwing. Not just because the bikers are T6, but because you are going to be able to field more of them - they are cheaper than their DA equivalents. The 2 plasma guns per unit will be able to deal with most armor, you can drop one unit and replace it with Terminators if you need something to kill tanks.

If you have the points, get a Chaos Lord on a bike with the Black Mace to create demolishing charges. Get a sorceror on a bike to unleash some nasty psychic attacks. Get 4 units of Cultists to camp out on objectives, and don't worry about them surviving. Your opponents will ignore the cultists because they are tarpitted with the massive number of bikers who just... won't... die.

Possibly tech, but a smarter opponent will ignore the Bikers because it takes quite some time for them to smash things up. Add in the Black Mace has no AP on a Lord, I'm not too worried about it (Usually only worried about the Black Mace on "Mick Jagger the Daemon Prince")

However you are also assuming you can get double FOC, my lists never assume that (1999+1) tournies are generally what I see they cap out at.

I do like the various CSM Biker loadouts mind you, just against any "balanced" list (this is not a balanced list, it's a themed/specialized one) the balanced list user can focus your weaker elements like your rear horrible scoring and give you a rough time.

Seppuku wrote:


A great threat to make this clump spread out is ordnance. I used to run two vindicators with my bikes to make castling undesirable.

Can't you put a Techmarine on a Bike with a S10 AP1 Blast?

TedNugent wrote:

Seppuku wrote:


A great threat to make this clump spread out is ordnance. I used to run two vindicators with my bikes to make castling undesirable.

Can't you put a Techmarine on a Bike with a S10 AP1 Blast?

If he's magically beyond 48" the enemy every turn of the game, yes. Since that is impossible, no.

 Smurfy wrote:
Possibly tech, but a smarter opponent will ignore the Bikers because it takes quite some time for them to smash things up. Add in the Black Mace has no AP on a Lord, I'm not too worried about it (Usually only worried about the Black Mace on "Mick Jagger the Daemon Prince")

However you are also assuming you can get double FOC, my lists never assume that (1999+1) tournies are generally what I see they cap out at.

I do like the various CSM Biker loadouts mind you, just against any "balanced" list (this is not a balanced list, it's a themed/specialized one) the balanced list user can focus your weaker elements like your rear horrible scoring and give you a rough time.

@Smurfy - Good points. Understand that I was responding to the original question, and not really factoring 'balance' into the composition. This is what a C:CSM biker list would look like, I was not trying to offer more than that.

If I did have to create a balanced, competitive army that featured bikers, there's a good chance I would stick with MoN and run 2 units of either 5 or 10 men simply because they are tough. Given the points cap, I would probably still get a Chaos Lord or a Sorcerer on a bike, just so that I could ensure they get into close combat reliably by sticking them in with the unit. I would be looking for complimentary units for Heavy Support choices, such as a Vindicator or Preds, but might bypass them for a Heldrake in order to get an anti-air advantage. My troops would definitely be 3 - 6 units of CSMs, and they would likely have VoTLW and MoN. That would be enough to take me to 1,500 points, and I believe that kind of a list would be fairly competitive. It just would not be all bikers : )

That said, the thing about bikers in C:CSM is that they are ridiculously powerful on the charge. Hammer of Wrath + 1 for the charge + 2 for pistol and CCW gives most opponents a hard time. Considering their range, it's fairly easy to make sure you actually get the charge with them.

You are right to point out that a black mace does not increase the AP on a lord, but I disagree this is really relevant. What the black mace does do is give the lord a lot of extra attacks, since it is a daemon weapon, and it also triggers the cursed special rule whenever he causes at least one wound. Forcing a MEQ or TEQ unit to make a toughness test gives you a decent shot at doing a lot more damage to your target. It also takes the number of attacks on the charge to an average of just under 50, which is outstanding against most infantry.

Given all this, were I actually running a list with 6 maxed out units of bikers, I am not sure how balanced armies would fare against it. On the one hand, most armies lack troops who are really good at dealing with T6 units. Most players would recognize Ignoring them would be a bad thing, since they could just as easily go after your own troops due to their high mobility. Sure, there is ordinance, people can throw down pie plates, there is plasma - but all of these things are scarce and few armies are equipped well enough to deal with 6 units of them.

On the other hand, mobility is what lets players dictate where a battle is going to happen. 6 units of bikers take up a lot of space, and it's unlikely anyone is going to be riding right past them to go after troops in the backfield. By comparison, I ran a spawn rush list under 5th edition rules, fielding around 33 spawn on a 1750 point list. 9 times out of 10, they pinned an opponent on his own side of the table because there was simply no way to get around them. They moved up the board about 18 inches per turn, and there were so many individual units it was almost impossible to shoot them up before they got there. While biker bases are no where near as large, there would also be a lot more of them.

What are your thoughts on a DA bike list vs a White Scars bike list with Khan? Strengths and weaknesses of both? Which is more effective and why?

This question might make more sense to ask in a few months when the new DA codex comes out, but I guess I'm curious how these two bike armies stand now.

I have no experience with Space marine bikes, however, I do with orks.

Wazdakka
Big mek
Lootas x2 (in battlewagons)
Nob bikers
Warbikers x5
Ork boys (in battlewagon)
Dakkajet
Deffkoptas x2
Battlewagons x3

I know this is only partially relevant, but its still a very effective (mostly) all bike army.

Good luck with your marines

 ArmageddonBorn wrote:
What are your thoughts on a DA bike list vs a White Scars bike list with Khan? Strengths and weaknesses of both? Which is more effective and why?

Well just as a note a White Scars army is better without Khan, as the only reason to take him is to outflank, and outflanking is kind of nerfed in 6th. Captain on a Bike is cheaper and better.

In addition Combat Tactics on biker units is great - they're further forward then most marines (so less likely to be in position to flee off the table before ATSKNF kicks in), get to fall back further, and have the movement to make up the lost ground...

 Hedgehog wrote:
In addition Combat Tactics on biker units is great - they're further forward then most marines (so less likely to be in position to flee off the table before ATSKNF kicks in), get to fall back further, and have the movement to make up the lost ground...

This. 100x This.

You can fall back out of assault range, autorally thanks to being a marine, and get right back in the fight the next turn.

SM bikers do NOT want to be tied up in assaults. They need to be moving and shooting. I run mine in 5-6 man squads with twin plasma and a MM attack bike. This lets them shoot at things while staying outside of assault range (pre-measuring helps immensely now). Meltaguns are a double edged sword that you need to be careful with. They let you kill things, but they put you in easy range of being assaulted.

As for chaos bikers, I have not had a chance to run them yet, but as mentioned already, they are not scoring.

Also, it is not the techmarine, but the Master of the Forge who you can put on a bike and give him a conversion beamer. Put him with a 3 man bike squad in a corner and blast

Landspeeders with TML dovetail nicely with biker lists as well. They hang back and shoot from range while your bikes shoot from mid-field. It is a nice combination.

Great someone appreciates Combat Tactics on Bikes, and is exactly how I use mine to great advantage. There is just something special about being shot up just a lil bit and denying anything the charge

The only thing DA may do better is the MSU bike list, where they can have 9x 3 Bikes with 2 Special Weapons and 9x single (by themselves) Attack Bikes. The problem with this is that they can be multi-charged and stuck in combat and the Attack Bikes are pretty priority targets, at least in a SM list they get bikes around them.

I have a buddy here in SoCal that has the Ork Biker gang, however I only recently finished this army after 5? or so years of collecting. I look forward to challenging it

In regards to trying to overwhelm the opponent with choices in the Chaos list, again, I'm not assuming double FOC so we're on two different levels here.

If you're assuming, oh, 30 Bikes? I'd say drop 1 squad for Spawn (or Heldrake, mmm, competition in slots soo tasty) because you need to chase people into higher levels of ruins. But yes, people can bring down T6 bikes with the Power Fists, increased S7 usage, massed hits still, etc. Same problem bikes have, only now 2-3 units have to deal with it (30 models ish) rather than 60ish.

I think the big thing though is you have to WIN combats with Chaos Bikes, SM Bikes can but don't need to to remain effective. Chaos Bikes fall back and about half the time, are sweeped unless a Lord is around (Which is why even one unit of them is alright in my eyes) SM Bikes can do the whole Combat Tactics Manuevers to either escape outright OR to set up, shoot, charge again (whatever suits your fancy)

what would be a general unit composition in a C:SM bike army?

6 bikes, attack bike?

What extras? land speeders? Heavy support?

At 2k I run the following

Bike captain (not Khan, combat tactics rules on bike lists), with relic blade, SS, Artificer Armor, Digi-weapons and melta bombs. He is a good combat unit vs MEQ)

3x Maxed out bike squads with MM, 2x squads with dual melt, and one with plasma (I am thinking of changing the plasma squad over to flamers given the vindi's in my list) powerfists on all sarges.
-I'm not as big of a fan of powerfists on sarges in 6th edition, but I find that the mobility of the bike allows me to better choose when and where I use the fist.

3x vindicators makes people spread out and has str 10 goodness.

2x Stormtalon w./ Typhoon Good anti-air or airstrikes on priority targets

drednought w/ MM/HF (a bit of an oddball in the list, but provides counter assault for the vindis)

and finally a Lone MM attack bike.


As for strategy, I run the vindicators in a core to intimidate my opponent (the vindi's rarely make their points) most of their value comes from controlling my opponents movement. Most people will hang back and be at max dispersion when seeing the vindis. As was mentioned earlier this makes people spread out. The new blast template rules makes stacking tanks in close proximity a very bad idea. The captain rolls with plasma squad and engages elite targets with concentrated fire. Occasionally I break the captain off to go hunt small squads that have 3+ armor and no AP2. The dread runs protection for the vindi and tends to get ignored since people prioritize the S10 Pie. Stormtalons give me anti-air that isn't static (my only other AA options are Fortifications or the contemptor mortis dred from forgeword) The MM Attack bike gives me a small unit that I can send in for close kills things like landraiders.

Keep in mind running in to melta a landraider with a 300+ pt bike squad is a bad trade. If your opponent is running a land raider I consider combat squadding the melta bike squads to attack the LR with cheaper squads (trading a 150 pt squad for a 250pt tank is much better)


I hope this helped.

I run pure max sized bike squads dual plas, mm, meltabombs on sgt, as the hybrid above allows my bikes to easily get rid of Vindicators and the Flyers aren't contributing much (due to a direct comparison you can just get on a opponent's line and give the Flyers not much chance to shoot you) and can generally shoot/charge his own bikes. I would like to see the Power Fists win the game there :3

My captain loadout is close to his, save no digi-weapons.

One key thing to remember is you can handle MC the same way almost with your krak and meltabombs in cc. If I were to change it maybe in the future, maybe lessen the squads just a bit and find a way to add the true flyer support like he has, but the Vindis "dissuading bunch up" I don't see why that's bad for bikes. Your opponent spreads out, you don't get freedom of maneuver. Your opponent bunches up? The opposite and helps you out.

I disagree with the relic blade on the captain in 6th. I prefer Thunder hammer (for aesthetics, a power fist will work just fine), SS, and artificer armor to make him a termie on wheels.

The AP3 of a relic blade will leave your captain too vulnerable to certain things for my taste.

Going TH/PF is the USUAL way; though a Relic Blade has the edge up on Monstrous Creatures, and if anything gives me a rough time, it's a Tyranid list if I can't target the MC enough. If you need anti-terminator, that's why I have plas/mm. Otherwise, send a Relic Blade Captain out punking normal Troops of opposing armies and the 2+/3++ combo is good on the defense and that's all you need against a beatstick character - Tie them up for a lil' bit, hopefully get out or die in their turn, then shoot 'em some more before they get to charge again.

 Smurfy wrote:
I run pure max sized bike squads dual plas, mm, meltabombs on sgt, as the hybrid above allows my bikes to easily get rid of Vindicators and the Flyers aren't contributing much (due to a direct comparison you can just get on a opponent's line and give the Flyers not much chance to shoot you) and can generally shoot/charge his own bikes. I would like to see the Power Fists win the game there :3

My captain loadout is close to his, save no digi-weapons.

One key thing to remember is you can handle MC the same way almost with your krak and meltabombs in cc. If I were to change it maybe in the future, maybe lessen the squads just a bit and find a way to add the true flyer support like he has, but the Vindis "dissuading bunch up" I don't see why that's bad for bikes. Your opponent spreads out, you don't get freedom of maneuver. Your opponent bunches up? The opposite and helps you out.

By spreading out an opponent will dilute his force concentration. His melta weapons lose range. You don't place melta in the front row w/ 6th Ed Wound allocation. You place it in the second row back, this means your meltaguns are now 3" further away from you. Additional by spreading out he separates his troops laterally as well. With the improved mobility of a bike, you can move from front and center to a flank quickly and engage a single squad with multiple squads worth of firepower. Max coherency also dilutes his CC ability. When was the last time you saw ork boys spread out at max 2" get to attack with all 30 members of the mob. I run vindicators because I WANT my opponent to spread out. 40k is all about maneuvering and local superiority.

As to flyers keep in mind that flyers don't have to enter the board in a straight line. They can angle in at an oblique and still be pointed at their owners own deployment zone.

Someone mention the relic blade having a problem in CC with 2+ saves. The captain isn't for terminator hunting. That is what the vindicators are for. With a 12' move speed the captain should never see terminators in CC.