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So a while back McDonalds tried a twitter campaign #McDstories hoping for McDonalds fans to tweet about their happy memories. Instead the much much more numerous McDonalds haters chimed in wtih stories of rats, food poisoning, rude service etc.

So that got me thinking, I know people track brand recognition but what about the love hate feelings customers have? Or more accurately the love/hate/spend relationship?

After all there are companies out there we like, but don't spend money at, or hate but do.

And then there are companies like GW which fans seem to love, hate and throw money at all at the same time.

And there are companies which people don't have strong opinions on but may spend money at. Applebees for example, I have no objection to it but can't say I ever went out of my way to go to Applebees.

Any marketing type folks out there who've given more thought to this?

I don't know many companies with such strong brand loyalty as Harley-Davidson. There are very few out there with as many fans willing to tattoo the corporate logo onto themselves.

A little place I heard of once called Games Workshop comes to mind as far as galvanizing opinions. None so much universal in any direction, but certainly strong, strong opinions.

I recall, growing up in hillbilly land, that no one ever had anything bad to say about John Deere.

 Redbeard wrote:
I don't know many companies with such strong brand loyalty as Harley-Davidson. There are very few out there with as many fans willing to tattoo the corporate logo onto themselves.

That's a great point and, I think, evidence that something HD has transcended being merely a brand.

I don't think there are many Global brands that are universally loved. In fact I'm struggling to think of any at all. I guess it's because you have to tread on a few toes and break a few laws to become a truly global brand name.
I have a love/hate relationship with Nike. I can't abide their business practices but goddam their trainers are comfy! As far as Maccy D's, never had a bad expeariance at one. However, I haven't been too one for a while and it's usually because I'm a little high and have the munchies pretty bad. So everything tastes great and everyone you meet is the best person in the world....

Never really understood the hatred that some people show towards certain brands though. Surely the choice of the consumer is above the kind of tribalism that is inherent in say, sport? We all choose what to buy and from whom. Just because I buy my groceries in Sainsburys and you buy yours in Waitrose, that don't make you a better person, does it....

Soda products, mainly pepsi and coke. I worked in the waiting industry for a year or so and oh my word people will get very upset if you carry one versus the other.

If you really want to see brand tribalism, visit a gun forum sometime. Holy gak do those guys get intense in their love for their brand and their hatred for everything else. It's a very niche example, but it's an intense one.

I can't imagine many global brands ignite all that much passion one way or another. When you're a faceless conglomerate whose revenue would make several countries envious, you have entire teams of people devoted to making sure you say and do nothing of substance at all.

 Manchu wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
I don't know many companies with such strong brand loyalty as Harley-Davidson. There are very few out there with as many fans willing to tattoo the corporate logo onto themselves.

That's a great point and, I think, evidence that something HD has transcended being merely a brand.

HD is not a motorcycle. Its the illusion of a lifestyle dream. Its top ten in marketing campaigns ever.

Because the bikes themselves are absolute gak.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Seaward wrote:
If you really want to see brand tribalism, visit a gun forum sometime. Holy gak do those guys get intense in their love for their brand and their hatred for everything else. It's a very niche example, but it's an intense one.

I can't imagine many global brands ignite all that much passion one way or another. When you're a faceless conglomerate whose revenue would make several countries envious, you have entire teams of people devoted to making sure you say and do nothing of substance at all.

You're not one of those Glock suckmeisters are you?

Coke and Pepsi spring to mind.

With Coke being the face of the free western world Pepsi gets a look in in middle eastern and asian countries as the number one beverage.

Starbucks seems to attract a lot of hate. I dunno, coffee is coffee. Sundays are Starbucks day for me and the wife, she loves the stuff. I like their mugs and have a growing collection. It makes the porice they charge worthwhile!

 Mr. Burning wrote:
Coke and Pepsi spring to mind.

With Coke being the face of the free western world Pepsi gets a look in in middle eastern and asian countries as the number one beverage.

Starbucks seems to attract a lot of hate. I dunno, coffee is coffee. Sundays are Starbucks day for me and the wife, she loves the stuff. I like their mugs and have a growing collection. It makes the porice they charge worthwhile!

Yeah, having been a barista for Starbucks for quite some time (no longer, thankfully) I can definitely say that there is a crazy amount of brand loyalty among regular costumers, as well as rage/hate from people who don't like it. Personally, I am not particularly passionate about their products, although I can say that I do have more consistently good experiences at Starbucks than at other coffee shop chains. Independent coffee shops are often hit or miss, usually being very, very good, or very, very bad. Given the choice between a Starbucks or say, Caribou Coffee, or some other more local chain, I would more often choose Starbucks, though.

I hate Zhik (A high-performance sailing gear company) because they charge nearly twice as much as Gill (Another sailing gear company), but OH MY GOD ZHIK IS AMAZING. It's damn near the best gear I ever had.

But Gill probably beats it by a huge number for value to performance.

Also, Apple is a classic example of brand loyalty on an almost religious level..

This one time I discussed this issue with my old boss who was head of marketing. His opinion was that brand awareness and loyalty was a very good thing but it could not last without the basis of an excellent product to sell. (Our brand was at that time one of the most successful and best known in the world.)

However it is noticeable that many people ignore things that ought to drive down brand loyalty.

E.g. Starbucks. It's just coffee which you can't order in English and it's more expensive than anywhere else. And in the UK, they have recently been shown to be paying about 45 pence a year tax on their 450M GBP turnover.

You could have thought that their shops would be deserted the morning after that piece of news, but they are as crowded as ever.

I am reminded of a line from the classic song Dynamite by Mr Taio Cruz;

"I'm wearing all my favourite brands..."

People use the public image generated by brand advertising to confer psychological qualities on products and then use them to bolster their self-image.

I like my free coffee at work just fine.

HD tattoos are about showing your lifestyle as much as they are about the motorcycles, if not more-so. Also, ignoring the more recent tattoo craze of the past 10-15 years, Bikers were more likely than other peer groups to even get tattoos, right? Maybe that's an over simplification, though.

As for absolute Love/Hate polarization, you have to start with the top dogs of their industries. In the US: Exxon-Mobil, McDonald's, and WalMart. They're each the biggest at what they do.

With McDonald's, they sell more burgers than anyone and their stores are everywhere. If people didn't love McDonald's, they wouldn't be the #1 seller. Their Ronald McDonald House Charities help a lot of sick kids from poor family get the medical treatment they need to live. But they obviously have VERY vocal detractors. Pissed off ex-employees (They're the #1 employer in California of people under 25), environmentalists that balk at their business and agricultural practices, and labor unions (they're vehemently anti-union).

With ExxonMobil, there isn't much to say positive. They give a gak-ton in charitable donations, which is a positive I suppose. They also pay their engineers and other professionals very well, not to mention the plant operators. If you retire with 25-35 years experience with EM, you're not hurting. However, no amount of good press will let people forget or forgive them for the Valdez spill. Furthermore, anyone in the oil/gas industry will be a target of environmentalism groups, anti-trust groups, anti-Wall Street groups, and so on. They treat their hourly employees well, whether union or not (most plants are union), but they will work their professionals to the bone (speaking from 1st hand experience).

Wal-Mart. What can you say, here? Like McD's, they wouldn't sell a ton of gak if people didn't shop there. They have some loyal shoppers, to be sure. Then there are the "Only buy American" and "Only buy local" folks who will foam at the mouth about Wal-Mart. I've never worked for them, nor know anyone that has, so I can't speak to how they treat their workers. Same anti-Business flack as the above two. Same deep-seated hatred from those that hate them as you'll see in the above two, as well.


Edit: Forgot about apple. Man, that's about as polar as you get. I've yet to meet a person that isn't head over heels in love with Apple, or would rather have a root canal than be caught with an iOS product on their person.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
This one time I discussed this issue with my old boss who was head of marketing. His opinion was that brand awareness and loyalty was a very good thing but it could not last without the basis of an excellent product to sell. (Our brand was at that time one of the most successful and best known in the world.)

However it is noticeable that many people ignore things that ought to drive down brand loyalty.

E.g. Starbucks. It's just coffee which you can't order in English and it's more expensive than anywhere else. And in the UK, they have recently been shown to be paying about 45 pence a year tax on their 450M GBP turnover.

You could have thought that their shops would be deserted the morning after that piece of news, but they are as crowded as ever.

I am reminded of a line from the classic song Dynamite by Mr Taio Cruz;

"I'm wearing all my favourite brands..."

People use the public image generated by brand advertising to confer psychological qualities on products and then use them to bolster their self-image.

They also have statistically significantly higher levels of caffeine in all their caffeine drinks.
Interesting tidbit but McDonalds actually makes excellent drip coffee (for your tummy, not your lap people).

Frazzled wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:
I don't know many companies with such strong brand loyalty as Harley-Davidson. There are very few out there with as many fans willing to tattoo the corporate logo onto themselves.

That's a great point and, I think, evidence that something HD has transcended being merely a brand.

HD is not a motorcycle. Its the illusion of a lifestyle dream. Its top ten in marketing campaigns ever.

Because the bikes themselves are absolute gak.

fething a thousand times this. Out of all the bike you could own, if you buy a HD it's to impress someone. Or it's stolen and you got a great deal on CL.

daedalus wrote:Also, Apple is a classic example of brand loyalty on an almost religious level..

I think that used to be true when it was Mac v PC but now it's a lot more about the actual product in hand, it's good, really good. But if they keep releasing products that are at best incremental improvements they face going the way of the dinosaur. Oooh this works. Apple now is GW in the 90's but if they keep fething with the consumer they will be GW now!

And to resurrect and oldy but a goody.

Bash.org#462310 wrote:
< robT> Name ONE thing that your windows comp can do that my MAC cant
< bawss> Right click.

Awww IRC, I miss you (not really we use it at work).

 kronk wrote:
I like my free coffee at work just fine.

I'm pretty sure that our coffee is actually just iodine. Coffee doesn't normally stain your teeth red, right?

(Starbucks sucks too though)

Edit: Forgot about apple. Man, that's about as polar as you get. I've yet to meet a person that isn't head over heels in love with Apple, or would rather have a root canal than be caught with an iOS product on their person.

The best feature of Apple computers is that a snide comment made about them to one of their customer base will always result in a reaction similar to that of a pissed off cat's.

I was extremely dubious about Apples computers for a very long time, until I trusted the missus to buy the new home computer and she came back with an iMac.... It's reliable and very pretty, thats about all I can say about it tbh. The games that do run on it run very well, but I'm still angling for a decent gaming laptop for Christmas!

But yeah, Apple is one company that produces an extremely violent reaction in some people. I'm pretty 'Meh' about them really. I'll take it or leave it.

 kronk wrote:
Edit: Forgot about apple. Man, that's about as polar as you get. I've yet to meet a person that isn't head over heels in love with Apple, or would rather have a root canal than be caught with an iOS product on their person.

I'm sure there are plenty, they just don't raise the subject. I have an iphone but it's just a phone with internet and games to me. It's impressive technology and I like it a lot and it's very useful, but I don't understand why people would queue up overnight to get the latest one or flock to listen to the likes of Steve Jobs as though it were the sermon on the mount.

I don't know about outside the UK, but Aston Martin must be among the best regarded car manufactures. I've not met anyone who dislikes them, disinterested in cars perhaps but they seem highly regarded. I've never come across someone who hated them, which can't be said for other high performance car companies like Ferrari.

Plenty of suppliers of services tend to be hated. I've only seen the spectrum of tolerance to hate for companies like AOL, I've never met anyone who actually likes them.

The only time I've eaten in a McDonalds was a school trip aged 5, I can only remember the disappointment.

I used to regard Aston Martin as an untouchable company. The cars they produced were top notch engineering marvels... Until they released the 'Cygnet', which is basically a Toyota 'IQ' with an Aston badge and an eye watering price tag... I shed a little tear.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

I don't know about outside the UK, but Aston Martin must be among the best regarded car manufactures. I've not met anyone who dislikes them, disinterested in cars perhaps but they seem highly regarded. I've never come across someone who hated them, which can't be said for other high performance car companies like Ferrari.

Am I the only one that noticed that the new Fusion looks like it was designed by AM?

There's the one I wanted

Wow, that's the new Fusion? I could actually want one of those...

Yeah it's pretty nice. I don't buy new cars so I'll have to wait at least a few years. But it looks promising. Maybe when my wife kills the van we just got I can talk her into one...

Yeah, I know the feeling. My Sebring gets paid off as of December. I'm gonna drive that sucker till I can see through the floorboards or until the transmission develops sentience and starts murdering people, pinning the crimes on me, whichever comes first.

Of course, it IS a Sebring. :(

 daedalus wrote:
Wow, that's the new Fusion? I could actually want one of those...

Which also looks like the new Optima.

I have an old one which will be GC's vehicle of much doom in a year, and will then take over Dad's older Nissan which he had tinkered with to boost the horsepower by about 50. The wife needs a new killing machine (van) but the moment she gets one I'm sure another building will leap out and attack her (again).

 AustonT wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
HD is not a motorcycle. Its the illusion of a lifestyle dream. Its top ten in marketing campaigns ever.

Because the bikes themselves are absolute gak.

fething a thousand times this. Out of all the bike you could own, if you buy a HD it's to impress someone. Or it's stolen and you got a great deal on CL.

I've ridden my Harley from Death Valley to the Atlantic coast of Nova Scotia and it hasn't let me down once. Illusion of a lifestyle dream? There's nothing illusionary about seeing as much of the country as possible and being part of it. Unless you've traveled on a bike, you just won't get it. You're separated from the world in a car, isolated from what's happening (and, most people seem to prefer that). On a bike, when it's hot out, you're hot, when it rains, you're wet, and there's no illusion there, you're not safe in your climate controlled minivan.

What do you ride AustonT? Because I've ridden with friends on Viragos, Goldwings, Shadows, Vulcans, a BMW guy, and no actual biker I've ever met on the road has felt the need to insult another guy's ride. When you're 3000 miles from home, it's more about finding things in common with the other riders than acting tough and putting down the guy who might just be the one who stops to help you on the side of the road.

 daedalus wrote:
Yeah, I know the feeling. My Sebring gets paid off as of December. I'm gonna drive that sucker till I can see through the floorboards or until the transmission develops sentience and starts murdering people, pinning the crimes on me, whichever comes first.

Of course, it IS a Sebring. :(

I've seen some pretty old eclipses and talons running around, you might be with that car longer than you'd like.
My truck needs to last to at least 200K which is about another year, or if a 1/2ton comes along at a good price. This 6.0 is killing me but I can haul full sheets of ply and go to the hardwood store without a trailer.
Any way. The new Fusion does look pretty awesome. If I were to move from a truck to a car though I'd probably get a Challenger, you know and put the car seat on the roof...

 Redbeard wrote:

 AustonT wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
HD is not a motorcycle. Its the illusion of a lifestyle dream. Its top ten in marketing campaigns ever.

Because the bikes themselves are absolute gak.

fething a thousand times this. Out of all the bike you could own, if you buy a HD it's to impress someone. Or it's stolen and you got a great deal on CL.

I've ridden my Harley from Death Valley to the Atlantic coast of Nova Scotia and it hasn't let me down once. Illusion of a lifestyle dream? There's nothing illusionary about seeing as much of the country as possible and being part of it. Unless you've traveled on a bike, you just won't get it. You're separated from the world in a car, isolated from what's happening (and, most people seem to prefer that). On a bike, when it's hot out, you're hot, when it rains, you're wet, and there's no illusion there, you're not safe in your climate controlled minivan.

What do you ride AustonT? Because I've ridden with friends on Viragos, Goldwings, Shadows, Vulcans, a BMW guy, and no actual biker I've ever met on the road has felt the need to insult another guy's ride. When you're 3000 miles from home, it's more about finding things in common with the other riders than acting tough and putting down the guy who might just be the one who stops to help you on the side of the road.

There are embarassing pictures of a naked baby Frazzled on a Triumph somewhere safe, very safe.

 Redbeard wrote:

 AustonT wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
HD is not a motorcycle. Its the illusion of a lifestyle dream. Its top ten in marketing campaigns ever.

Because the bikes themselves are absolute gak.

fething a thousand times this. Out of all the bike you could own, if you buy a HD it's to impress someone. Or it's stolen and you got a great deal on CL.

I've ridden my Harley from Death Valley to the Atlantic coast of Nova Scotia and it hasn't let me down once. Illusion of a lifestyle dream? There's nothing illusionary about seeing as much of the country as possible and being part of it. Unless you've traveled on a bike, you just won't get it. You're separated from the world in a car, isolated from what's happening (and, most people seem to prefer that). On a bike, when it's hot out, you're hot, when it rains, you're wet, and there's no illusion there, you're not safe in your climate controlled minivan.

You want to take that closeness to the world one step farther? Get a real bike instead of one of those girly man bikes that powers itself.

 rubiksnoob wrote:

 Redbeard wrote:

 AustonT wrote:

Frazzled wrote:
HD is not a motorcycle. Its the illusion of a lifestyle dream. Its top ten in marketing campaigns ever.

Because the bikes themselves are absolute gak.

fething a thousand times this. Out of all the bike you could own, if you buy a HD it's to impress someone. Or it's stolen and you got a great deal on CL.

I've ridden my Harley from Death Valley to the Atlantic coast of Nova Scotia and it hasn't let me down once. Illusion of a lifestyle dream? There's nothing illusionary about seeing as much of the country as possible and being part of it. Unless you've traveled on a bike, you just won't get it. You're separated from the world in a car, isolated from what's happening (and, most people seem to prefer that). On a bike, when it's hot out, you're hot, when it rains, you're wet, and there's no illusion there, you're not safe in your climate controlled minivan.

You want to take that closeness to the world one step farther? Get a real bike instead of one of those girly man bikes that powers itself.

Different lifestyle.
The cruiser life style Redbeard is talking is about being free, being independent, and hopefully not picking bugs out of your teeth.
bicycles are for you steenking nature boys....

Then of course there's the bullet bike culture...WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! Both the wife and I make jokes we're going to teach GC's future kids how to pull 100 yard wheelies.

Mrs. Frazzled wants fatboy hog.
Mr. Frazzled wants something lethal.