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Kroothawk wrote: Yes, all Hobbit products are too expensive.
But keep in mind that these Hobbit trolls are almost Giant sized, not River Troll sized:
Take your reasonable discussion points out of this thread... only irrational complaining is allowed.
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Doesn't the heavy price of The Hobbit stuff have to do with the license costing 3 times (or so, im estimating here) as much from Warner Brothers than when it was under New Line? Or something like that? Still over-costed as feth, however....
washout77 wrote: Doesn't the heavy price of The Hobbit stuff have to do with the license costing 3 times (or so, im estimating here) as much from Warner Brothers than when it was under New Line? Or something like that? Still over-costed as feth, however....
Yes, but the thing is that with their last round of LOTR stuff is that whilst the box sets were more expensive, you got often twice as much as a 40k set and more than a Fantasy set (well, the regiment sets that seem to be phased out in favour of 10-man boxes . . .). It evened out. Obviously GW saw the error in their ways and jacked up the prices to the max whilst halving the number of miniatures in the sets. Nice one.
It's totally priced me out of the game. So Games Workshop, I have something to say to you:
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/01 16:01:50
The theory is they're gouging Hobbit prices knowing from experience they only have a 3 year window to sell stuff.
ANd that little Timmy will scream until mom and dad buy him the 3 troll action playset with fire and spit.
LotR and Hobbit are clearly not evergreens like Star Wars or Spiderman.
The phrase "little timmy" should be banned from dakka. Apparently every single GW store people go into is full of shreiking kids. Well mine isn't, maybe 10% of sales are to kids with their parents.
And the amount of money a parent is willing to spend on their kid is far lower than the disposable income of someone on even minimum wage. I have friends who spend thirty of fourty pound a week on GW and they only earn minimum wage.
Basically actual grown-ups have a lot more disposable income than children and GW target them accordingly. No need to be bitter.
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Eldarain wrote: I like this one the most. "feel like dropping a grand on a game you've never seen?"
If I had the money I would probably be into that. *shrug*
Oh and for £447 i could get a *lot* less than that. I would treasure pretty much everything in that bundle, I'm sure there are lots of other "collectable" things across the nerdscape that would get you less than that.
Though, like the paint set, it's a bit annoying there isn't a cursory discount.
The main box set isn't bad. For £75 you get Gandalf the Grey, Bilbo Baggins, Thorin Oakenshield, the limited edition Radagast the Brown, Oin the Dwarf, Gloin the Dwarf, Nori the Dwarf, Ori the Dwarf, Kili the Dwarf, Fili, the Dwarf, Dwalin the Dwarf, Bombur the Dwarf, Bofur the Dwarf, Bifur the Dwarf, The Goblin King, Grinnah the Goblin, The Goblin Scribe, Goblin Captain, 36 Goblin Warriors, and The Goblin King's platform, plus a rulebook and some dice. And considering goblins are £20 for 30 you can have an alright set-up for under £100.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/01 16:48:29
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
Ok i was trying to find a comparison pic for size. Thanks. Considering they are almost the size of a warhammer giant (a side by side would be good) which is $50 us then 85$ us is not too bad a price for 3. Not saying I'd buy it but I think its probably reasonable for someone interested.
This is the real trick. GW has you conditioned to think that the plastic warhammer giant is worth 50 bucks!
Sure when compared to Warhammer prices, the box set seems less expensive. But that doesn't make it a good deal. That just means that GW has done a masterful job over the past decade of convincing folks to pay their outlandish prices.
That's not even considering that the GW giant has far more parts and components than 3 of the Hobbit giants.
Its just too bad that GW has decided to go another round with the Hobbit.
I too worked for a FLGS when the Lord o/t Rings came out. I ordered the MINIMUM amount and the stuff just sat there.
Ive said it before in a thread about how White Dwarf can be improved. NO ONE in my gaming group or any of my associates circles plays these games.
Its a terrible waste of publishing space and just overall a bad business decision. Fully one third of Dwarfer is devoted to a failed marketing agreement.
Public opinion of the movie is already "iffy" Peter Jackson has been able to milk ONE book into THREE movies!! Give me a break!
As far as pricing is concerned, If its your hobby, deal with it or get a new hobby. The only way to send GW the message about pricing is to NOT PURCHASE THE PRODUCT.
Sure when compared to Warhammer prices, the box set seems less expensive. But that doesn't make it a good deal. That just means that GW has done a masterful job over the past decade of convincing folks to pay their outlandish prices.
That and rising costs have forced them to raise prices.
If GW cut their prices by 10%, they would no profit whatsoever. Food for thought.
I can't really make too much of a judgement on the trolls, I'm no fan of the models, but the scale would really be a decider. The price tag is ridiculous, but if the models are "Giant" sized, then their might be some reason for it. I'm no fan of the rule book, I can get the small one in a few weeks once they go up on eBay, if it's even worth it. The Goblins aren't that good, nor is the Goblin king.
Sure when compared to Warhammer prices, the box set seems less expensive. But that doesn't make it a good deal. That just means that GW has done a masterful job over the past decade of convincing folks to pay their outlandish prices.
That and rising costs have forced them to raise prices.
If GW cut their prices by 10%, they would no profit whatsoever. Food for thought.
I doubt that massively, cutting 10% would mean I could actually buy the sets, not just on special occasions like Xmas or Birthdays.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/01 17:50:20
The biggest indicator someone is a loser is them complaining about 3d printers or piracy.
FarseerAndyMan wrote: Public opinion of the movie is already "iffy" Peter Jackson has been able to milk ONE book into THREE movies!! Give me a break!
Never understood this mindset. If you liked tolkien story telling why hate that it gets expanded? It just seems to me like people are mad because they can't finish watching the movie as fast as possible.
In regards to the LOTR gaming, I too have never seen or heard of someone playing it. There's certainly many vocal people on the net that say it's alive and well, but I've gone to several FLGS and GW stores, I've never seen someone play it or speak of it. It's like all the LOTR players are holed up in this private town where the only thing you can do is play the game and talk on forums. So naturally they all think the game is widespread. Or something like that.
“Sometimes I can hear my bones straining under the weight of all the lives I'm not living.”
Sure when compared to Warhammer prices, the box set seems less expensive. But that doesn't make it a good deal. That just means that GW has done a masterful job over the past decade of convincing folks to pay their outlandish prices.
That and rising costs have forced them to raise prices.
If GW cut their prices by 10%, they would no profit whatsoever. Food for thought.
You are badly mistaken if you think that GW, or any other company for that matter, can exist with only a 10% profit margin. Food for thought.
A Town Called Malus wrote:Just because it is called "The Executioners Axe" doesn't mean it is an axe...
azreal13 wrote:Dude, each to their own and all that, but frankly, if Dakka's interplanetary flame cannon of death goes off point blank in your nads you've nobody to blame but yourself!
I started playing LoTR SBG almost 4 years ago, and I recall getting the 24 units boxed for about 20 euros.
Now I play Warmachine, and the release of the Hobbit got me real excited. I decided to check back with GW, too see if they we're doing a nice intro pack so I might start again with the LoTR wargames.
When I saw the price I was simply amazed. This is not normal at all.
Lord Scythican wrote:
You know what is worse than not getting jokes?
Sure when compared to Warhammer prices, the box set seems less expensive. But that doesn't make it a good deal. That just means that GW has done a masterful job over the past decade of convincing folks to pay their outlandish prices.
That and rising costs have forced them to raise prices.
If GW cut their prices by 10%, they would no profit whatsoever. Food for thought.
You are badly mistaken if you think that GW, or any other company for that matter, can exist with only a 10% profit margin. Food for thought.
GW make 10% profit on every £1 of sales. If you reduced the price by 10%, therefore, they would make no profit (edit: actually they'd make £300,000 profit) from selling minatures.
Given that other companies sell at a comparable price level I really don't get the "derp GW should give out models for free it'd make good business sense derp" thing.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/12/01 20:48:50
Unnessesarily extravegant word of the week award goes to jcress410 for this:
jcress wrote:Seem super off topic to complain about epistemology on a thread about tactics.
The obvious answer to the "bit no one plays it here so noone must play it" and "why does it therefore get WD coverage" is that GW are stumping up a sizeable licensing fee (must be more than LotR?) for it, therefore there must be enough players to supply a significant demand.
We have all heard of the LotR bubble afterall.
How do you promote your Hobby? - Legoburner "I run some crappy wargaming website "
I used to enjoy the LOTR section of White Dwarf and I never played it. My favourite article was building the mines of Moria, a huge piece of scenery that stood higher than it was wide.
I don't get the hate. But maybe the problem people have with seeing systems they dont play getting coverage is why they don't try alternative magazines to WD, as these will have a lot of non-war hammer content. Imagine if we went back to the days of bloodbowl, epic and necromunda, where the WD was full of things for all systems, there would be endless moaning from people wanting the magazine to be 40k cover to cover.
Is what I don't understand is why the prices of these figs is taken so personally. Lets face it, GW isn't our friend/family so what they do as a company to make money shouldn't really surprise us at this point. The raise prices, cut stores/employees, cut material costs, and so on. If they release some models that are kinda dumpy looking for more than they should I personally don't care because I simply wont buy them. If someone else wants to cool for them, but I don't see why people seem to get offended by this behavior. It reminds me of when kids were crying because Pluto isn't a planet anymore.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/01 20:23:56
I'm not a LotR fan, but I think GWs Hobbit release is really interesting. Crazy expensive yes, but since I never planned on buying the stuff anyway I don't really mind. To me it's great advertisement for the film.
But like I said in some other Hobbit thread, I do feel sorry for the parents who have to cash up for this.
Gentleman_Jellyfish wrote: Cue all the people saying "This is the last straw! Now I'm only going to buy a little bit every now and then!"
I really don't get the parent argument. When I was a kid and asked my parents they simply said 'no'. When I was 12 i got my pocket money which was €10 a month. If I wanted to get something I simply had to save. This was about 6 years ago.
Lord Scythican wrote:
You know what is worse than not getting jokes?
Sure when compared to Warhammer prices, the box set seems less expensive. But that doesn't make it a good deal. That just means that GW has done a masterful job over the past decade of convincing folks to pay their outlandish prices.
That and rising costs have forced them to raise prices.
If GW cut their prices by 10%, they would no profit whatsoever. Food for thought.
You are badly mistaken if you think that GW, or any other company for that matter, can exist with only a 10% profit margin. Food for thought.
GW make 10% profit on every £1 of sales. If you reduced the price by 10%, therefore, they would make no profit (edit: actually they'd make £300,000 profit) from selling minatures.
Given that other companies sell at a comparable price level I really don't get the "derp GW should give out models for free it'd make good business sense derp" thing.
Your getting mixed up with net and gross here.
They make 10p in the pound AFTER all other costs.
A quick read of the document you link to suggests their gross margin somewhere around 75%
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/01 20:49:36
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Howard A Treesong wrote: I used to enjoy the LOTR section of White Dwarf and I never played it. My favourite article was building the mines of Moria, a huge piece of scenery that stood higher than it was wide.
I don't get the hate. But maybe the problem people have with seeing systems they dont play getting coverage is why they don't try alternative magazines to WD, as these will have a lot of non-war hammer content. Imagine if we went back to the days of bloodbowl, epic and necromunda, where the WD was full of things for all systems, there would be endless moaning from people wanting the magazine to be 40k cover to cover.
But those were good games.
A Town Called Malus wrote:Just because it is called "The Executioners Axe" doesn't mean it is an axe...
azreal13 wrote:Dude, each to their own and all that, but frankly, if Dakka's interplanetary flame cannon of death goes off point blank in your nads you've nobody to blame but yourself!
We still play regularly here and the store has plenty of customers buying lotr on a regular basis that we do not manage to get to the store to play. As such, lotr is very much alive fo us here. Just saying.
Howard A Treesong wrote: I used to enjoy the LOTR section of White Dwarf and I never played it. My favourite article was building the mines of Moria, a huge piece of scenery that stood higher than it was wide.
I don't get the hate. But maybe the problem people have with seeing systems they dont play getting coverage is why they don't try alternative magazines to WD, as these will have a lot of non-war hammer content. Imagine if we went back to the days of bloodbowl, epic and necromunda, where the WD was full of things for all systems, there would be endless moaning from people wanting the magazine to be 40k cover to cover.
But those were good games.
And Lord of the Rings isn't?
This is part of the problem. There are people who, in all likelihood have not even tried the game system, continually piling scorn upon the system because it "takes up space" that they feel could be used for their favorite game system.
Those same people are the ones who went out of their way to belittle people who were playing the system in the stores because the players were, again, "taking up space" that they felt could be used for their favorite game system.
martin74 wrote: I just don't see it that way. What can you purchase from GW and still have money over for the three trolls and a camp fire? A lot. Now, if there was some awesome way the trolls sing while standing around the camp fire, I would drop my cash down right away. However, I can not see buying that, in a game that is never played. When was the last time you saw someone play the LOTR game outside of a GW store? I haven't, never. I guess I will see the hobit game played as often.
Don't be so surprised. For a time LOTR was played more than even the traditional Warhammer games back when the movies were out, and after that it became what it is now. When the Hobbit hits I expect it to become that popular once more until 3yrs time when people stop caring anymore.
vleermie wrote: I really don't get the parent argument. When I was a kid and asked my parents they simply said 'no'. When I was 12 i got my pocket money which was €10 a month. If I wanted to get something I simply had to save. This was about 6 years ago.
'Little timmy' is the bs people break out when they want to whine about GW but don't have anything real to whine about.
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Howard A Treesong wrote: I used to enjoy the LOTR section of White Dwarf and I never played it. My favourite article was building the mines of Moria, a huge piece of scenery that stood higher than it was wide.
I don't get the hate. But maybe the problem people have with seeing systems they dont play getting coverage is why they don't try alternative magazines to WD, as these will have a lot of non-war hammer content. Imagine if we went back to the days of bloodbowl, epic and necromunda, where the WD was full of things for all systems, there would be endless moaning from people wanting the magazine to be 40k cover to cover.
But those were good games.
And Lord of the Rings isn't?
This is part of the problem. There are people who, in all likelihood have not even tried the game system, continually piling scorn upon the system because it "takes up space" that they feel could be used for their favorite game system.
Those same people are the ones who went out of their way to belittle people who were playing the system in the stores because the players were, again, "taking up space" that they felt could be used for their favorite game system.
I got into LotR this summer for a campaign. It was my first experience with the game and I just didn't find it nearly as much fun as WHF, 40k, or Malifaux (the other wargames I play the most). I grew up loving the books and later the movies, but the game just doesn't do it for me. Does that give me the right to criticize the system?
A Town Called Malus wrote:Just because it is called "The Executioners Axe" doesn't mean it is an axe...
azreal13 wrote:Dude, each to their own and all that, but frankly, if Dakka's interplanetary flame cannon of death goes off point blank in your nads you've nobody to blame but yourself!
Testify wrote: GW make 10% profit on every £1 of sales. If you reduced the price by 10%, therefore, they would make no profit (edit: actually they'd make £300,000 profit) from selling minatures.
You don't really believe that, do you?
Tom Kirby alone gets 1-2% of all sales (he just decided to take 383,650 £ dividend, compare that to you supposedly £300,000 profit) , and there are 3 shareholders getting more.
And reducing starter box price from 100€ to say 70€ doesn't mean 30% less revenue.
Same with selling cheaper resin miniatures for cheaper than metal.
Their pricing is crucial for losing about 10% customers and sales per year.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/01 21:57:50
martin74 wrote: I just don't see it that way. What can you purchase from GW and still have money over for the three trolls and a camp fire? A lot. Now, if there was some awesome way the trolls sing while standing around the camp fire, I would drop my cash down right away. However, I can not see buying that, in a game that is never played. When was the last time you saw someone play the LOTR game outside of a GW store? I haven't, never. I guess I will see the hobit game played as often.
Don't be so surprised. For a time LOTR was played more than even the traditional Warhammer games back when the movies were out, and after that it became what it is now. When the Hobbit hits I expect it to become that popular once more until 3yrs time when people stop caring anymore.
Well, even three years ago I never saw a single game of LOTR played anywhere. I have heard rumors of people who own it, however, never seen it played outside of a white dwarf magazine, and we all know those pics are staged. Was at the game store from open then left after a game of 40K and Malifaux. In that four hours, I saw 40K, WH fantasy, Malifaux, WM/H, and even dystopian wars (the ships, not minis) being played. Alot of customers, inand out, asking for merchandise. "Did you get the noise marines in", Has the big WHFAB game started yet, did the new Malifaux stuff come in, Do you have anymore DW Legions?" NOt one time did I hear the word hobit, in a serioius way.
I doubt I will see a serious or casual game of hobit being played. I doubt the products will move off the shelf. The same LOTR merchandise has been collecting dust for a long time now. I am just saying, for a "new" game that if GW wants to be played, it needs to make it at least comprable in price to the other GW stuff.
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